From whom in the Black community should Kylie Jenner have sought permission to braid her hair?

[Metaphor]

When Kylie Jenner, famous for being famous, decided to tweet a selfie of her new hairstyle, someone called Amandla Stenberg and every person on feministing.com called her out for 'cultural appropriation'.

Since Jenner was accused of 'appropriation', I wanted to check my understanding of the term.

tr.v. (-āt′) ap·pro·pri·at·ed, ap·pro·pri·at·ing, ap·pro·pri·ates
1. To set apart for a specific use: appropriating funds for education.
2. To take possession of or make use of exclusively for oneself, often without permission: My coworker appropriated my unread newspaper.

So, I have to wonder. From whom did Jenner steal cornrows (thus depriving that person of them), and from whom should she have asked permission to wear cornrows?

 

[Terrell]

No one, it's her hair.

 

[laughing dog]

She should of asked Bill Cosby.

 

[AthenaAwakened]

When Kylie Jenner, famous for being famous, decided to tweet a selfie of her new hairstyle, someone called Amandla Stenberg and every person on feministing.com called her out for 'cultural appropriation'.

Since Jenner was accused of 'appropriation', I wanted to check my understanding of the term.

tr.v. (-āt′) ap·pro·pri·at·ed, ap·pro·pri·at·ing, ap·pro·pri·ates
1. To set apart for a specific use: appropriating funds for education.
2. To take possession of or make use of exclusively for oneself, often without permission: My coworker appropriated my unread newspaper.

So, I have to wonder. From whom did Jenner steal cornrows (thus depriving that person of them), and from whom should she have asked permission to wear cornrows?

Did the black community demand she ask permission? If the black community didn't, what's your point?

If you are mad at The Guardian or Feministing, shouldn't they be in the article title?

 

[Metaphor]

When Kylie Jenner, famous for being famous, decided to tweet a selfie of her new hairstyle, someone called Amandla Stenberg and every person on feministing.com called her out for 'cultural appropriation'.

Since Jenner was accused of 'appropriation', I wanted to check my understanding of the term.

tr.v. (-āt′) ap·pro·pri·at·ed, ap·pro·pri·at·ing, ap·pro·pri·ates
1. To set apart for a specific use: appropriating funds for education.
2. To take possession of or make use of exclusively for oneself, often without permission: My coworker appropriated my unread newspaper.

So, I have to wonder. From whom did Jenner steal cornrows (thus depriving that person of them), and from whom should she have asked permission to wear cornrows?

Did the black community demand she ask permission? If the black community didn't, what's your point?

If you are mad at The Guardian or Feministing, shouldn't they be in the article title?

I did not imply 'the black community' demanded she ask permission. Particular individuals have implied that either she ought not to have done it, or she should only have done it with certain conditions (both Stenberg and this person say that she should vocally and visibly support the black community before she is allowed to 'appropriate' culture).

'Cultural appropriation' is an idea with widespread currency, but it seems to me to be a vapid and intellectually incoherent buzzword, casually fired upon white people who appear to achieve success with aesthetics and ideas that originated in, or are more dominant in, particular cultures (e.g. Azealia Banks having repeated hissy fits over the success of Iggy Azalea).

But why does Azalea being successful in hip hop steal from Banks? Banks even has the hide to say that 'hip-hop' is something she created for herself!

 

[AthenaAwakened]

Did the black community demand she ask permission? If the black community didn't, what's your point?

If you are mad at The Guardian or Feministing, shouldn't they be in the article title?

I did not imply 'the black community' demanded she ask permission. Particular individuals have implied that either she ought not to have done it, or she should only have done it with certain conditions (both Stenberg and this person say that she should vocally and visibly support the black community before she is allowed to 'appropriate' culture).

Could she be disallowed? Will the hair police descend upon her if she dares to put skinny french braids in her hair?

Or is commentary on the actions of a celebrity (who's celebrity comes from doing stuff that evokes commentary and how said celebrity learned this occupation from her family members who do stuff designed to evoke commentary) that is problem?

'Cultural appropriation' is an idea with widespread currency, but it seems to me to be a vapid and intellectually incoherent buzzword, casually fired upon white people who appear to achieve success with aesthetics and ideas that originated in, or are more dominant in, particular cultures (e.g. Azealia Banks having repeated hissy fits over the success of Iggy Azalea).

But why does Azalea being successful in hip hop steal from Banks? Banks even has the hide to say that 'hip-hop' is something she created for herself!

So what do you wish to talk about? Jenner? Azalea? Banks? Feministing? or Cultural Appropriation as social construct and cultural phenomena?

 

[jladam]

When Kylie Jenner, famous for being famous, decided to tweet a selfie of her new hairstyle, someone called Amandla Stenberg and every person on feministing.com called her out for 'cultural appropriation'.

It was Amandla Stenberg (whoever that is). It was not "everyone on feministing.com." There wasn't even a single comment posted about the article which means you've actually posted more comments about it here then anyone has on feministing.com.

 

[Metaphor]

When Kylie Jenner, famous for being famous, decided to tweet a selfie of her new hairstyle, someone called Amandla Stenberg and every person on feministing.com called her out for 'cultural appropriation'.

It was Amandla Stenberg (whoever that is). It was not "everyone on feministing.com." There wasn't even a single comment posted about the article which means you've actually posted more comments about it here then anyone has on feministing.com.

It was at least the author of that article on feministing.com, and I assume people who are members of feministing who opposed the ideas in the article might have commented, but if there were people who questioned it they were either unwilling or unable to say anything about it on feministing.

 

[Metaphor]

I did not imply 'the black community' demanded she ask permission. Particular individuals have implied that either she ought not to have done it, or she should only have done it with certain conditions (both Stenberg and this person say that she should vocally and visibly support the black community before she is allowed to 'appropriate' culture).

Could she be disallowed? Will the hair police descend upon her if she dares to put skinny french braids in her hair?

Or is commentary on the actions of a celebrity (who's celebrity comes from doing stuff that evokes commentary and how said celebrity learned this occupation from her family members who do stuff designed to evoke commentary) that is problem?

'Cultural appropriation' is an idea with widespread currency, but it seems to me to be a vapid and intellectually incoherent buzzword, casually fired upon white people who appear to achieve success with aesthetics and ideas that originated in, or are more dominant in, particular cultures (e.g. Azealia Banks having repeated hissy fits over the success of Iggy Azalea).

But why does Azalea being successful in hip hop steal from Banks? Banks even has the hide to say that 'hip-hop' is something she created for herself!

So what do you wish to talk about? Jenner? Azalea? Banks? Feministing? or Cultural Appropriation as social construct and cultural phenomena?

I'm chiefly interested in the the last part -- the specifics of the case in the OP was meant to be a springboard for discussion.

But let's start with the specifics. Do you believe Jenner braiding her hair is cultural appropriation?

 

[Metaphor]

Could she be disallowed? Will the hair police descend upon her if she dares to put skinny french braids in her hair?

No. I assume not even Stenberg wants the police to arrest Jenner over her hairstyle.

What I'm interested in is why Stenberg felt offended by the braids and felt Jenner had dome something morally wrong.

Or is commentary on the actions of a celebrity (who's celebrity comes from doing stuff that evokes commentary and how said celebrity learned this occupation from her family members who do stuff designed to evoke commentary) that is problem?

No, celebrity feuds are amusing to me so that's not a problem. Commenting or criticising something is also not a problem. I want to understand why Stenberg (and therefore, in the general case, why people who believe 'cultural appropriation' is coherent and morally wrong) feel the way they do.

I cannot understand why somebody thinks they can own a culture, which they must believe, unless 'appropriation' means something other than it actually means.

I also cannot understand why what Jenner is doing is 'appropriating' while if a black woman wore cornrows, she wouldn't be appropriating. Both have learned about cornrows from people other than themselves, so why is one 'appropriation' and morally bad?

 

[Derec]

From whom should black women who straighten/relax their hair (like that Sesali chick from femifisting) ask permission?
From whom should Misty Copeland have sought permission to perform an European dance style, to wit ballet?

The whole idea of "cultural appropriation" is idiotic and doubly so if you insist that "cultural appropriation" is only objectionable in one direction.

 

[jladam]

It was Amandla Stenberg (whoever that is). It was not "everyone on feministing.com." There wasn't even a single comment posted about the article which means you've actually posted more comments about it here then anyone has on feministing.com.

It was at least the author of that article on feministing.com, and I assume people who are members of feministing who opposed the ideas in the article might have commented, but if there were people who questioned it they were either unwilling or unable to say anything about it on feministing.

So, according to you, because no one commented on the article you assume everyone agreed with it. That makes you one hell of a mindreader.

 

[Derec]

There wasn't even a single comment posted about the article which means you've actually posted more comments about it here then anyone has on feministing.com.

I think that's because femifisting requires all comments be approved by their moderators before they appear. And given how much radfems like free exchange of ideas (i.e. not much to not at all) I am guessing the percentage of comments that would pass ideological muster is low enough to justify the 0 comment count.

 

[jladam]

There wasn't even a single comment posted about the article which means you've actually posted more comments about it here then anyone has on feministing.com.

I think that's because femifisting requires all comments be approved by their moderators before they appear. And given how much radfems like free exchange of ideas (i.e. not much to not at all) I am guessing the percentage of comments that would pass ideological muster is low enough to justify the 0 comment count.

Feministing.com uses Discus for commenting so that's bullshit.

- - - Updated - - -

I think a more appropriate response would be that nobody gives a rat's fucking ass what Amandla Stenberg thinks. Even feminists.

 

[Derec]

Feministing.com uses Discus for commenting so that's bullshit.

I know they use Discuss. What you presumably do not know is that sites who use Discuss may choose to require prescreening for comments.
Go ahead, try to post a comment and see what happens.

I think a more appropriate response would be that nobody gives a rat's fucking ass what Amandla Stenberg thinks. Even feminists.

Probably so. I had to google her and she is a 16 year old Hunger Games actress. But the feministing article itself was written by somebody else who styles herself as "resident sexpert and cynic".

 

[AthenaAwakened]

Could she be disallowed? Will the hair police descend upon her if she dares to put skinny french braids in her hair?

Or is commentary on the actions of a celebrity (who's celebrity comes from doing stuff that evokes commentary and how said celebrity learned this occupation from her family members who do stuff designed to evoke commentary) that is problem?

'Cultural appropriation' is an idea with widespread currency, but it seems to me to be a vapid and intellectually incoherent buzzword, casually fired upon white people who appear to achieve success with aesthetics and ideas that originated in, or are more dominant in, particular cultures (e.g. Azealia Banks having repeated hissy fits over the success of Iggy Azalea).

But why does Azalea being successful in hip hop steal from Banks? Banks even has the hide to say that 'hip-hop' is something she created for herself!

So what do you wish to talk about? Jenner? Azalea? Banks? Feministing? or Cultural Appropriation as social construct and cultural phenomena?

I'm chiefly interested in the the last part -- the specifics of the case in the OP was meant to be a springboard for discussion.

But let's start with the specifics. Do you believe Jenner braiding her hair is cultural appropriation?

I believe anything and everything that Jenner and her family does is first an foremost fodder to generate talk about Jenner and her family.
Was it cultural appropriation? I'm just not convinced that Jenner et. al. are that smart, so I from an intentions POV, I think no. I think she thought she was being cute and cool and "down."

Has what she has done been taken as appropriation by others? Yes it has. Are they right to do so? Depends on how you look at it, I suppose.

Do I personally care what Jenner does with her hair? No. Do I care in a political, social, or cultural way what Jenner does with her hair? No.

 

[jladam]

Probably so. I had to google her and she is a 16 year old Hunger Games actress. But the feministing article itself was written by somebody else who styles herself as "resident sexpert and cynic".

I don't give a shit. What I don't understand is why you do.

 

[AthenaAwakened]

No. I assume not even Stenberg wants the police to arrest Jenner over her hairstyle.

What I'm interested in is why Stenberg felt offended by the braids and felt Jenner had dome something morally wrong.

If you want to know what Stenberg thinks, ask Stenberg.

Or is commentary on the actions of a celebrity (who's celebrity comes from doing stuff that evokes commentary and how said celebrity learned this occupation from her family members who do stuff designed to evoke commentary) that is problem?

No, celebrity feuds are amusing to me so that's not a problem. Commenting or criticising something is also not a problem. I want to understand why Stenberg (and therefore, in the general case, why people who believe 'cultural appropriation' is coherent and morally wrong) feel the way they do.

I cannot understand why somebody thinks they can own a culture, which they must believe, unless 'appropriation' means something other than it actually means.

I also cannot understand why what Jenner is doing is 'appropriating' while if a black woman wore cornrows, she wouldn't be appropriating. Both have learned about cornrows from people other than themselves, so why is one 'appropriation' and morally bad?

Well, I think that if you want to understand ownership of a cultural aspect, you need to consider commidification of culture. You also have to understand the history of that commodification. If you approach matters of culture in a historical vacuum, not only will this never make sense to you, you will never be able to construct a cogent criticism of the concept in question.

 

[jladam]

I know they use Discuss. What you presumably do not know is that sites who use Discuss may choose to require prescreening for comments.
Go ahead, try to post a comment and see what happens.

You are assuming that people are posting comments in support of the article when you have no.fucking.evidence.whatsofuckingever. None. Nada. Zero. Zilch. Oh, but you're not the prejudicial one.

 

[GenesisNemesis]

should of

I gotta call you out on this one bro.