George Zimmerman Arrested On Domestic Violence And Weapons Charge

[Nice Squirrel]

Since when is refereeing a schoolyard fight evidence?

If we are talking about it being evidence of "culture" then it must be American culture.

It's a subculture of American culture. Look how big UFC and boxing is in the US? It was a part of his life.

Like most young men in the United States. What's your point? That he was a normal kid?

If so, I have no beef with that analysis.

 

[marc]

Does this mean that everyone on the high school wrestling team needs to be put in a police lineup, because of their history of violence?

 

[Rhea]

I got in a schoolyard fight when I was a kid. But I've never had the police called by a romantic interest. Nor have I ever assaulted a bouncer, let alone an undercover cop. Definitely never told another motorist I was going to kill them.

 

[RavenSky]

Does this mean that everyone on the high school wrestling team needs to be put in a police lineup, because of their history of violence?

Or be killed by the self-appointed neighborhood watch guy?

 

[RavenSky]

Here is a video of Martin refereeing a street fight. Too ppl just fighting it out and if you lose you lose

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xqweax_trayvon-martin-referees-street-fight-anthony-vs-curtis_news

Why was Martin staying with his dad according to Martin's texts?

Being the referee of an informally organized fight (with rules and a referee) is not the kind of fighting EP was trying to accuse Trayvon of.

And if it was, EP's arguments trying to blame Trayvon are even more pathetic than I thought.

Since when is refereeing a schoolyard fight evidence?

If we are talking about it being evidence of "culture" then it must be American culture.

It's a subculture of American culture. Look how big UFC and boxing is in the US? It was a part of his life.

What "sub-culture" is this? The kind where teenagers participate in various organized sports like wrestling or karate or MMA? Why would this so-called "sub-culture" have any bearing whatsoever on Trayvon's death?

Please, speak plainly... what is this "culture" or "sub-culture" you and Loren keep telling us Trayvon was a part of, but neither of you wants to explain.

 

[Jayjay]

\
Please, your "other situations" of disobeying cops is actually one situation when he was a drunken 21-year old. If that is now admissible as evidence, we might as well dust off Martin being in one fight in school as conclusive proof that he must have clocked Zimmerman.

except that there is NO evidence that Trayvon was in any brawls at school. You keep insisting that he was. You keep claiming that this person or that person said he was. But you have yet to provide any evidence.

I do think this is the first time I mentioned it in this thread. Anyway he mentioned being ina fight in one of his text messages from his phone. And Jeantel in her tv interviews seemed to think that ending up in fights is normal teenage behaviour, and that Martin might even have thrown the first punch. Do you think you know Martin better than she did?

We have no evidence of him venturing south from the T until he met with Trayvon again on his way back to his truck.

Actually, we have no evidence that Zimmerman was ever "on his way back to his truck". We do, however, have clear evidence that he ended up approximately 45 feet south of the top of the T.

Which is a rather short distance. It shows that Zimmerman was unlikely not chasing Martin or they would have ended up fighting much farther away... unless you are saying that Zimmerman somehow was able to catch up with Martin by moving at a snail's pace of 45 feet in two minutes.

We can hear from his voice on the call that he slowed down when he saw that Martin was long gone.

Your opinion, not facts

Not just my opinion, but a reasonable deduction based on evidence. When Zimmerman said "he ran", his breathing audibly stabilizes and the noise on the line reduces, presumably because he stopped at the top of the T. And it's fairly reasonable to think that Zimmerman would confirm "he ran" to the police at the time when he was in in a position to see the path between the buildings, rather than just randomly repeat it for no reason.

His keys were dropped only a few yards away from the path. What evidence do you haev to prove that Zimmerman chased Martin, except your presupposition that he is apparently the real-life Dexter Morgan?

Since you are the only one in this exchange that mistakes your own person opinion for facts, I find it ironic that you are blathering on about "proof" for something I VERY CLEARLY SAID was my opinion - an opinion that is exactly based on the FACT that Zimmerman's keys were several feet south on the top of the T, and Trayvon's dead body was many more feet further still.

How do you base Zimmerman chasing Martin with evidence of Zimmerman's keys only a few feet away from where he said he was? Or are you saying that he "chased" Martin for distance of a few yards at most?

, even the neighbourhood watch guideline that you refer to encourages to be watchful and provide the police with as much details as possible. Moving to a vantage point where he could see whether the "burglar" leaves the neighbourhood or not, without actually putting himself in his path is a reasonable thing to do. Besides the beighbourhood watch instructions do not explicitly say that one must not ever move by foot, or that one should seek shelter from a car if one happens to be on foot.

wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong

Neighborhood watch training does explicitly say NOT to follow or otherwise engage the "suspect".

Nice goal-post moving. I Zimmerman did not engage Martin until later, and the issue here was leaving his car. Ther eis no denying that Zimmerman and Martin had a struggle, and that it was very likely facilitated by Zimmerman trying to detain and/or shoot him while failing to identify himself.

Do you just throw words at the screen when you realize your arguments have failed? There was no "goal-post moving" on my part Zimmerman getting out of his vehicle when he KNEW he wasn't supposed to, AND taking his gun with him, set up a chain of events that ended in the death of an innocent teenager. If Zimmerman stayed in his truck like his was supposed to, like prudence/safety/caution would make any reasonable person do, then Trayvon would not be dead.

You make huge assumptions of what Zimmerman "knew", clearly he was clueless. And if he consciously took his gun or just had it holstered anyway is not proven either... the main cause of the incident is not leaving his truck, it's him having a combination of poor impulse control and possession of a firearm.

As for your ridiculous twisting of what is being said, you have clearly conceded that you (1) don't know what you are talking about anymore, and (2) are just arguing to argue. No one ever said anything like neighborhood watch training says "one must not ever move by foot, or that one should seek shelter from a car if one happens to be on foot" and you know it. You also know what WAS said and meant.

The context was clearly, that Zimmerman should not leave his F*ing car. Those were your exact words, and that's not explicitly against Neihbourhood watch rules. The rules only say that one should never take any risks or engage the suspect, and that's a whole another argument. As for arguing for arguing's sake, I'm not the one harping on scenarios that are not supported by evidence, just to dehumanize the culprit beyond all reason. All I'm saying is that there are some things about that night that we can extrapolate based on evidence, and some details which are pure guesswork.

You have the neighborhood watch rules and/or training manual for Sanford Florida? Post a link to it.

I posted a link to it a few pages back. here it is again.

You have utterly failed to minimize George Zimmerman's full responsibility, and thankfully also failed to convince anyone that Trayvon was in any way responsible for his own death.

Thats fine, because my intent is not to "minimize" anything and certainly not blame Martin, but to find out what the likely chain of events.

 

[Arctish]

Since when is refereeing a schoolyard fight evidence?

If we are talking about it being evidence of "culture" then it must be American culture.

It's a subculture of American culture. Look how big UFC and boxing is in the US? It was a part of his life.

What "sub-culture" is this? The kind where teenagers participate in various organized sports like wrestling or karate or MMA? Why would this so-called "sub-culture" have any bearing whatsoever on Trayvon's death?

Please, speak plainly... what is this "culture" or "sub-culture" you and Loren keep telling us Trayvon was a part of, but neither of you wants to explain.

Also, were the guys at my high school who used to have informal kung-fu battles part of this subculture?

I lived in a pretty hoity-toity part of Connecticut, and a lot of my classmates went on to Ivy League colleges. Was that the crowd Martin was running with?

 

[Arctish]

except that there is NO evidence that Trayvon was in any brawls at school. You keep insisting that he was. You keep claiming that this person or that person said he was. But you have yet to provide any evidence.

I do think this is the first time I mentioned it in this thread. Anyway he mentioned being ina fight in one of his text messages from his phone. And Jeantel in her tv interviews seemed to think that ending up in fights is normal teenage behaviour, and that Martin might even have thrown the first punch. Do you think you know Martin better than she did?

We have no evidence of him venturing south from the T until he met with Trayvon again on his way back to his truck.

Actually, we have no evidence that Zimmerman was ever "on his way back to his truck". We do, however, have clear evidence that he ended up approximately 45 feet south of the top of the T.

Which is a rather short distance. It shows that Zimmerman was unlikely not chasing Martin or they would have ended up fighting much farther away... unless you are saying that Zimmerman somehow was able to catch up with Martin by moving at a snail's pace of 45 feet in two minutes.

We can hear from his voice on the call that he slowed down when he saw that Martin was long gone.

Your opinion, not facts

Not just my opinion, but a reasonable deduction based on evidence. When Zimmerman said "he ran", his breathing audibly stabilizes and the noise on the line reduces, presumably because he stopped at the top of the T. And it's fairly reasonable to think that Zimmerman would confirm "he ran" to the police at the time when he was in in a position to see the path between the buildings, rather than just randomly repeat it for no reason.

So you think Zimmerman was lying in his interviews with Det. Serino and during the re-enactment walk-through. Zimmerman talks about how he was moving around that night but you think he stopped.

Interesting. But you still believe his version of events?

 

[Jayjay]

I do think this is the first time I mentioned it in this thread. Anyway he mentioned being ina fight in one of his text messages from his phone. And Jeantel in her tv interviews seemed to think that ending up in fights is normal teenage behaviour, and that Martin might even have thrown the first punch. Do you think you know Martin better than she did?

We have no evidence of him venturing south from the T until he met with Trayvon again on his way back to his truck.

Actually, we have no evidence that Zimmerman was ever "on his way back to his truck". We do, however, have clear evidence that he ended up approximately 45 feet south of the top of the T.

Which is a rather short distance. It shows that Zimmerman was unlikely not chasing Martin or they would have ended up fighting much farther away... unless you are saying that Zimmerman somehow was able to catch up with Martin by moving at a snail's pace of 45 feet in two minutes.

We can hear from his voice on the call that he slowed down when he saw that Martin was long gone.

Your opinion, not facts

Not just my opinion, but a reasonable deduction based on evidence. When Zimmerman said "he ran", his breathing audibly stabilizes and the noise on the line reduces, presumably because he stopped at the top of the T. And it's fairly reasonable to think that Zimmerman would confirm "he ran" to the police at the time when he was in in a position to see the path between the buildings, rather than just randomly repeat it for no reason.

So you think Zimmerman was lying in his interviews with Det. Serino and during the re-enactment walk-through. Zimmerman talks about how he was moving around that night but you think he stopped.

Interesting. But you still believe his version of events?

Memory is fallible. That's why I think what I can hear on the police call is more trustworthy than the exact details that Zimmerman said afterwards.

 

[coloradoatheist]

Does this mean that everyone on the high school wrestling team needs to be put in a police lineup, because of their history of violence?

You see no difference between the organized wrestling at school and the after school somewhat organized fights? People are looking at Zimmerman's past which is fine, but what happened that night was what Martin was used to participating in and the reason he was sent to live with his dad. So the organized fights was something his mom was happy with at the time?

 

[coloradoatheist]

I do think this is the first time I mentioned it in this thread. Anyway he mentioned being ina fight in one of his text messages from his phone. And Jeantel in her tv interviews seemed to think that ending up in fights is normal teenage behaviour, and that Martin might even have thrown the first punch. Do you think you know Martin better than she did?

We have no evidence of him venturing south from the T until he met with Trayvon again on his way back to his truck.

Actually, we have no evidence that Zimmerman was ever "on his way back to his truck". We do, however, have clear evidence that he ended up approximately 45 feet south of the top of the T.

Which is a rather short distance. It shows that Zimmerman was unlikely not chasing Martin or they would have ended up fighting much farther away... unless you are saying that Zimmerman somehow was able to catch up with Martin by moving at a snail's pace of 45 feet in two minutes.

We can hear from his voice on the call that he slowed down when he saw that Martin was long gone.

Your opinion, not facts

Not just my opinion, but a reasonable deduction based on evidence. When Zimmerman said "he ran", his breathing audibly stabilizes and the noise on the line reduces, presumably because he stopped at the top of the T. And it's fairly reasonable to think that Zimmerman would confirm "he ran" to the police at the time when he was in in a position to see the path between the buildings, rather than just randomly repeat it for no reason.

So you think Zimmerman was lying in his interviews with Det. Serino and during the re-enactment walk-through. Zimmerman talks about how he was moving around that night but you think he stopped.

Interesting. But you still believe his version of events?

Memory is fallible. That's why I think what I can hear on the police call is more trustworthy than the exact details that Zimmerman said afterwards.

45 feet is not very far, let's go measure it on a football field, it's 13 years, covered in about 2 seconds running 5 seconds walking and with them fighting it out it would be an easy distance to cover. From the reenactment he went about 15 feet instead of the 40 feet, but easy to not remember you went a little further. For Zimmerman to catch Martin where he did at the 45 feet Martin would have had to have walked at a snails pace for at least a minute or two.

 

[RavenSky]

Thats fine, because my intent is... to find out what the likely chain of events.

given that you keep minimizing/excusing Zimmerman's behaviors and actions while exaggerating Trayvon's, it doesn't appear that you are.

 

[marc]

Does this mean that everyone on the high school wrestling team needs to be put in a police lineup, because of their history of violence?

You see no difference between the organized wrestling at school and the after school somewhat organized fights? People are looking at Zimmerman's past which is fine, but what happened that night was what Martin was used to participating in and the reason he was sent to live with his dad. So the organized fights was something his mom was happy with at the time?

There is a difference, but not as big a difference as between somewhat organized fights, and acts of violence that get you arrested and sent to anger management classes. I have no problem looking at both people's past. It is the hyping of one and diminishing of the other I have a problem with.

 

[coloradoatheist]

You see no difference between the organized wrestling at school and the after school somewhat organized fights? People are looking at Zimmerman's past which is fine, but what happened that night was what Martin was used to participating in and the reason he was sent to live with his dad. So the organized fights was something his mom was happy with at the time?

There is a difference, but not as big a difference as between somewhat organized fights, and acts of violence that get you arrested and sent to anger management classes. I have no problem looking at both people's past. It is the hyping of one and diminishing of the other I have a problem with.

Except the street fights wouldn't be an activity that is normally reported to police and only time something would normally happen would be if it happened at school. So if that's the normal mindset of a kid then getting into a fight into a neighborhood is no big deal.

 

[RavenSky]

Does this mean that everyone on the high school wrestling team needs to be put in a police lineup, because of their history of violence?

You see no difference between the organized wrestling at school and the after school somewhat organized fights? People are looking at Zimmerman's past which is fine, but what happened that night was what Martin was used to participating in and the reason he was sent to live with his dad. So the organized fights was something his mom was happy with at the time?

You see no difference between informally organized fights with rules and referees vs being followed, then killed, by a creeper with a gun and a temper.

 

[RavenSky]

There is a difference, but not as big a difference as between somewhat organized fights, and acts of violence that get you arrested and sent to anger management classes. I have no problem looking at both people's past. It is the hyping of one and diminishing of the other I have a problem with.

Except the street fights wouldn't be an activity that is normally reported to police and only time something would normally happen would be if it happened at school. So if that's the normal mindset of a kid then getting into a fight into a neighborhood is no big deal.

So now we are back to this super secret special knowledge you have of Trayvon's history that allows you to blame him and exonerate Zimmerman

 

[RavenSky]

Right from your link JayJay

What you will not do is get physically involved with any activity you report or apprehension of any suspicious persons.

Also from your link, page 7

What are all the addresses, styles and colors of houses in my Neighborhood Watch group.

But Zimmerman claims he didn't know the name of the only other street in his neighborhood.

(Maybe he is too mentally challenged to be driving a motorized vehicle)

 

[coloradoatheist]

You see no difference between the organized wrestling at school and the after school somewhat organized fights? People are looking at Zimmerman's past which is fine, but what happened that night was what Martin was used to participating in and the reason he was sent to live with his dad. So the organized fights was something his mom was happy with at the time?

You see no difference between informally organized fights with rules and referees vs being followed, then killed, by a creeper with a gun and a temper.

If Zimmerman say martin and pulled out his gun and shot him then your argument would hold. But there was a fight in the middle with only one person showing signs of being hit in the fight.

 

[RavenSky]

You see no difference between informally organized fights with rules and referees vs being followed, then killed, by a creeper with a gun and a temper.

If Zimmerman say martin and pulled out his gun and shot him then your argument would hold. But there was a fight in the middle with only one person showing signs of being hit in the fight.

Actually, neither of them showed signs of being in a "fight". Both showed signs of some type of skuffle, and one was DEAD

But you are inadvertently correct in that Trayvon had zero Zimmerman DNA on his hands, meaning he showed zero signs of hitting anyone. He did, however, have a bullet hole in his chest, and Zimmerman had the gun.

 

[Jayjay]

Right from your link JayJay

I am not denying that engaging Martin when they met is definitely a mistake. The point is that leaving his car is not "engaging".

What are all the addresses, styles and colors of houses in my Neighborhood Watch group.

But Zimmerman claims he didn't know the name of the only other street in his neighborhood.

(Maybe he is too mentally challenged to be driving a motorized vehicle)

I did suggest that he might have had a bicycle instead. If we throw out common sense and just start imagining things, why not?