Georgia garbage man gets 30 days in jail for early pick up

[Nexus]

In Sandy Springs, Ga., a sanitation worker was sentenced to 30 days in jail for picking up trash too early in a wealthy neighborhood.

Mr. McGill, a new employee of a company contracted to do sanitation work in Sandy Springs, was cited for picking up trash just after 5 a.m. one morning, according to WSB-TV.

A city ordinance limits trash pickup to between 7 a.m. and 7 p.m. in order to allow the wealthy suburbans there to sleep peacefully.

And I thought our prison-industrial-complex for minor drug possession was outrageous.

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[ZiprHead]

I see one response is calling for a strike. I fully support this.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

And there's something wrong with noise ordinances?

The fact that you're doing your job doesn't justify breaking them.

This is harsh but since they already tried going after the company and it didn't work it's probably the only way to actually make it work. After this I don't think they're going to get any workers to pick up garbage too early.

 

[repoman]

What would suck is if he was given too much work to do in his regular time slot. Then he has been pressured into jail.

If he wanted to start early, just for the heck of it (like getting off at 3p instead of 5p) and this is the first infraction that is still screwed up.

Another point is that it was probably the backup alarm or compactor alarm that made enough noise to have a complaint called in. Not the intrinsic noise of the truck.

 

[Toni]

And there's something wrong with noise ordinances?

The fact that you're doing your job doesn't justify breaking them.

This is harsh but since they already tried going after the company and it didn't work it's probably the only way to actually make it work. After this I don't think they're going to get any workers to pick up garbage too early.

Nothing is wrong with having a noise ordinance that is reasonable.

The penalty is way harsh and applied to the wrong party. In fact, it smacks of displace revenge against someone who will look sly lose his livelihood instead of penalizing the company who is responsible but powerful enough to shift its burden.


I hope they strike for 30 days or until he is released, with back pay and any associated costs paid to him.

 

[dismal]

All I see here is a heroic and flexible government bureaucracy protecting the citizens from a greedy and evil corporation henchman that refuses to follow the rules.

My worldview does not allow me to see government as inflexible authoritarian douchebags. [/conservoprogressive]

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

And there's something wrong with noise ordinances?

The fact that you're doing your job doesn't justify breaking them.

This is harsh but...

No. No fucking but's. Going to jail because of breaking a noise ordinance while doing city work it absolutely indefensible.

...since they already tried going after the company and it didn't work it's probably the only way to actually make it work.

Make what work? Not the guy, he is in jail now. So if you can't get the company, get the employee? The City has a contract. Stop paying it to get the company's attention.

After this I don't think they're going to get any workers to pick up garbage too early.

Goodness you are warped.

 

[ZiprHead]

Why is the company itself only fined? Why can't the company manager be brought into the court house and locked up for 30 days instead of the new guy who was just doing what he was told?

 

[ksen]

And there's something wrong with noise ordinances?

The fact that you're doing your job doesn't justify breaking them.

This is harsh but since they already tried going after the company and it didn't work it's probably the only way to actually make it work. After this I don't think they're going to get any workers to pick up garbage too early.

Is there no jackbootery at the local level you won't support?

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Why is the company itself only fined? Why can't the company manager be brought into the court house and locked up for 30 days instead of the new guy who was just doing what he was told?

Or instead of fining, don't pay out on the contract. That'll get their attention very very quickly.

 

[ronburgundy]

No. No fucking but's. Going to jail because of breaking a noise ordinance while doing city work it absolutely indefensible.

Why does it matter that it was "city work"? Did the city ask him to break the law and start at 5am?
Such ordinances are perfectly reasonable, and should apply equally to private and "city work". But jail time for the employee is not the right punishment.

...since they already tried going after the company and it didn't work it's probably the only way to actually make it work.

Actually, it sounds like they did not fine this company, but rather the prosecutor claims that in general, he has not had success fining companies for such infractions. That just means they need bigger fines. I bet a $100,000 would do the trick, and if huge fines really do not work, then put the company owner in jail.
Employees are not taking the owners trucks out at 5am without the owners full knowledge, consent, and likely demand.

 

[Rhea]

Why does it matter that it was "city work"? Did the city ask him to break the law and start at 5am?
Such ordinances are perfectly reasonable, and should apply equally to private and "city work". But jail time for the employee is not the right punishment.

...since they already tried going after the company and it didn't work it's probably the only way to actually make it work.

Actually, it sounds like they did not fine this company, but rather the prosecutor claims that in general, he has not had success fining companies for such infractions. That just means they need bigger fines. I bet a $100,000 would do the trick, and if huge fines really do not work, then put the company owner in jail.
Employees are not taking the owners trucks out at 5am without the owners full knowledge, consent, and likely demand.

There is some precedent for this. Truck drivers are routinely ticketed and fined for following dictates of their companies. For example, if a local road is closed to truck traffic, and the driver goes there anyway because their company enforces a route-time that requires the shortcut, it is the driver who gets ticketed and fined, thus encouraging drivers to refuse their company dictate in order to retain their CDLs.

 

[KeepTalking]

No. No fucking but's. Going to jail because of breaking a noise ordinance while doing city work it absolutely indefensible.

...since they already tried going after the company and it didn't work it's probably the only way to actually make it work.

Make what work? Not the guy, he is in jail now. So if you can't get the company, get the employee? The City has a contract. Stop paying it to get the company's attention.

After this I don't think they're going to get any workers to pick up garbage too early.

Goodness you are warped.

Just to clear up a misconception here, the guy is not currently in jail, he served two weekends in jail before the story started getting attention, and they decided to let him off with time served. Note that it was not even two weeks, just two weekends. Quite often those who are jailed for traffic offenses (and apparently city ordinances like this), and who have jobs are allowed to serve their time on weekends, reporting on Friday night and leaving some time on Sunday. It still sucks, and for everyone involved. When I did some time in the county jail, the weekends were the worst. The jail cells were filled to overflowing, with guys sleeping on mattresses on the floor from a combination of weekend arrestees waiting for court on Monday (many of them drunk as fuck when they came in), and those serving their weekend terms.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Why does it matter that it was "city work"? Did the city ask him to break the law and start at 5am?

Break the law? Using a little hyperbole here?

Such ordinances are perfectly reasonable, and should apply equally to private and "city work".

His purpose there is to fulfill a Government contract. So it gives him a right to be performing the work. This isn't as if some private company doing house construction at 4 AM.

But jail time for the employee is not the right punishment.

How in the heck is jail time anywhere even a reasonable punishment, of course presuming that the US hasn't become a state where anything can put you in jail for 30 days.

...since they already tried going after the company and it didn't work it's probably the only way to actually make it work.

Actually, it sounds like they did not fine this company, but rather the prosecutor claims that in general, he has not had success fining companies for such infractions. That just means they need bigger fines. I bet a $100,000 would do the trick, and if huge fines really do not work, then put the company owner in jail.

Or don't pay the Contractor? When they don't get paid, they get much more responsive. They can always not pay a fine. But they can't not not get paid.

Employees are not taking the owners trucks out at 5am without the owners full knowledge, consent, and likely demand.

So you seem to think that company is at fault, yet wondering why the guy shouldn't be in jail?

 

[ronburgundy]

Why does it matter that it was "city work"? Did the city ask him to break the law and start at 5am?
Such ordinances are perfectly reasonable, and should apply equally to private and "city work". But jail time for the employee is not the right punishment.



Actually, it sounds like they did not fine this company, but rather the prosecutor claims that in general, he has not had success fining companies for such infractions. That just means they need bigger fines. I bet a $100,000 would do the trick, and if huge fines really do not work, then put the company owner in jail.
Employees are not taking the owners trucks out at 5am without the owners full knowledge, consent, and likely demand.

There is some precedent for this. Truck drivers are routinely ticketed and fined for following dictates of their companies. For example, if a local road is closed to truck traffic, and the driver goes there anyway because their company enforces a route-time that requires the shortcut, it is the driver who gets ticketed and fined, thus encouraging drivers to refuse their company dictate in order to retain their CDLs.

There might be precedent, but that doesn't make it good law enforcement. There is precedent for fining companies for noise ordinances, such as with construction companies in residential areas starting before 7am, which is a great and reasonable law.
Also, in the cases you refer to, the driver is making a specific decision on their own, even though they are doing so to meet a quota/time limit enforced by the company. In this current case, the company is likely directly forcing the drivers to break a specific law by requiring drivers to start their routes at an illegal time. Regardless, massive fine for the company, then they and the driver can work it out in court as to who has to pay it, depending on whether that driver made a lone decision or company policy forces drivers to break the law.

BTW, this driver is "going to jail" but only on the weekends until 30 days are served, that way he doesn't lose his income. But if this was his personal first offense, then any fine to him should have been below $500, making 30 days even on weekends an unreasonable alternative sentence.

 

[ronburgundy]

Break the law? Using a little hyperbole here?

No, I used objective fact. There is a law (and a good and reasonable one) prohibiting the actions he engaged in. Thus, he broke the law just as much as a person running through red lights is breaking the law, and just like a corporation that spews pollution into the air beyond legal limits. Noise pollution is a real and serious thing with massive impact on quality of life.

Such ordinances are perfectly reasonable, and should apply equally to private and "city work".

His purpose there is to fulfill a Government contract. So it gives him a right to be performing the work. This isn't as if some private company doing house construction at 4 AM.

So, Halliburton has the right to break laws that make it cheaper for them to fulfill their government contracts? Cheney will be glad to hear it.
He has absolutely no right to break any law. The job of trash pick up does not require him to pick up trash at 5 am in residential areas. IOW, his actions are in no way neccessary in order for him to fulfill his government contract. Thus, the fact that he is doing "city work" has zero logical or ethical relevance to the fact that he broke a law or to what the reasonable punishment should be. The punishment should be the same as if he was doing house construction for a private company at 5 am.

But jail time for the employee is not the right punishment.

How in the heck is jail time anywhere even a reasonable punishment, of course presuming that the US hasn't become a state where anything can put you in jail for 30 days.

Take a remedial reading course. I actually try to make reasonable and honest arguments. That means I do not simply distort every fact and deny obvious logic in order to make everything in support of a particular position I have on part of the issue. Like you, I do NOT support jail for the driver, but you missed that because I didn't share you unreasonable denial that noise ordinances are laws or that needless law breaking is magically forgiven if done to make it easier or more profitable for yourself to fulfill government contracts.

...since they already tried going after the company and it didn't work it's probably the only way to actually make it work.

Actually, it sounds like they did not fine this company, but rather the prosecutor claims that in general, he has not had success fining companies for such infractions. That just means they need bigger fines. I bet a $100,000 would do the trick, and if huge fines really do not work, then put the company owner in jail.

Or don't pay the Contractor? When they don't get paid, they get much more responsive. They can always not pay a fine. But they can't not not get paid.

IF the company doesn't pay the fine, then the owner goes to jail, and yes, in that case jail is justified.
If the city directly pays this company, then not paying them would work, but that might not be the case. In many places residents pay private companies for trash pick up and the government is not involved, and some googling suggests this is common in Georgia.

Employees are not taking the owners trucks out at 5am without the owners full knowledge, consent, and likely demand.

So you seem to think that company is at fault, yet wondering why the guy shouldn't be in jail?

Again, read more carefully and don't assume that just because I disagree with some of your unreasonable premises that I disagree with your conclusion. There is more than one way to a conclusion and some are more rational than others.

 

[arkirk]

And there's something wrong with noise ordinances?

The fact that you're doing your job doesn't justify breaking them.

This is harsh but since they already tried going after the company and it didn't work it's probably the only way to actually make it work. After this I don't think they're going to get any workers to pick up garbage too early.

Is there no jackbootery at the local level you won't support?

I doubt it. The company is obviously in control of when their garbage trucks are on the street. If not, then it is still the problem of the garbage company. If I loan my car to a friend and it gets in a big wreck, they sue me! This is just another case of punishing those least able to defend themselves...the poor guy on the truck.
How long does a garbage truck disturb the peace in any spot...perhaps 30 seconds...unless the guy had a whole lot of stuff to load. This just shows that our courts in the south are all full of kangaroos.

 

[braces_for_impact]

I feel bad for an employee in this situation, being stuck between performing his job and getting in legal trouble. It seems the city at this point has all but admitted it's powerless to do anything against any company willing to flout it's rules, so it will go against the employee instead. Perhaps companies in this area will now start ignoring any rules they feel they wish to since the city government can't stop them and apparently has no recourse.

 

[arkirk]

I feel bad for an employee in this situation, being stuck between performing his job and getting in legal trouble. It seems the city at this point has all but admitted it's powerless to do anything against any company willing to flout it's rules, so it will go against the employee instead. Perhaps companies in this area will now start ignoring any rules they feel they wish to since the city government can't stop them and apparently has no recourse.

American business is TOO BURDENED WITH REGULATIONS and needs a break...so we always have the little guys we can blame for little slip ups like this. How dare the city tell business what to do? They respond with...okay let's just punish your paid minions....

 

[ronburgundy]

Jail for this guy seems absurd, regardless of blame.
However those blaming the company, myself included, are making arguments based on the premise the this guy was forced or at least coerced into doing this by his employer. That is highly plausible. However, it is also possible that he has a set number of pick-ups and is paid for making them and not on an hourly basis, and so he cut corners and went to a residential area too early because it takes him less time that way for the same pay.

IF that is the case, then the driver is to blame and the company should be able to dock his pay for the fine amount.