• Welcome to the new Internet Infidels Discussion Board, formerly Talk Freethought.

"God cannot create a square circle"

Zing! Oooh -- except -- couldn't an omnipotent God have made them ready?
Well, yeah. You talking about the atheist's strawman tri-omni God or something?

The tri-omni god is not an "atheist's strawman" God.
Yes it is. It's precisely the strawman of God that atheists attack.
So, you're redefining 'strawman?' Okay. We'll pretend that 'strawman' means 'the only god that atheists attack' and nothing to do with whether or not any believers actually describe their god as tri-omni.

Well, how would you like us to attack your god?
the one who makes mistakes and/or needs to learn, and has some sort of limitations on him.
First off, exactly why do you call such a being a 'god?'
And what, if anything, makes you think he, she, it exists?
What can you offer us as a reason to think you've discovered such a being, rather than just postulate it because the tri-omni concept keeps popping up problems?
 
The PoE/PoS does not "throw God under the omnibus". It does, however, rule out a tri-omni God. If you admit the notion of a tri-omni God is nonsense, then we have nothing to talk about in regards to it or the PoE/PoS. (Note: I've thought these topics out quite well...)
Yeah... sure. Which is why you assume any reference to God is of the tri-omni variety, rather than of the one besieged by assholes and dickheads complaining about shit instead of taking care of it?
One is that, in some embodiments, they come across as dickwads or, if you'd rather, jerks. Is your God a jerk?
That was funny...
 
Zing! Oooh -- except -- couldn't an omnipotent God have made them ready?
Well, yeah. You talking about the atheist's strawman tri-omni God or something?

The tri-omni god is not an "atheist's strawman" God.
Yes it is. It's precisely the strawman of God that atheists attack.
So, you're redefining 'strawman?'
Nope, but you should probably know that already.
Okay. We'll pretend that 'strawman' means 'the only god that atheists attack' and nothing to do with whether or not any believers actually describe their god as tri-omni.
Why don't we just use the term strawman the way we always do? Obviously one of the strawmen of God that atheists attack is the tri-omni God.

Well, how would you like us to attack your god?
Like a puppy, not a disease.
the one who makes mistakes and/or needs to learn, and has some sort of limitations on him.
First off, exactly why do you call such a being a 'god?'
Why call the being primordial energy, consciousness, ability, goals, or whatever? Why call anyone anything?
And what, if anything, makes you think he, she, it exists?
Experiences of it.
What can you offer us as a reason to think you've discovered such a being, rather than just postulate it because the tri-omni concept keeps popping up problems?
Dude, I'm not the fucking being we are talking about. What can I do? Make you a fucking sammich, help you hang drywall, do some math, drink lots of booze, do drugs, say funny stuff, cook various foods, grow stuff in a garden, type a response, compare experiences with people, etc.

I suppose I could write out my experiences, but that would take up some time (and I really should start keeping a journal). I probably, to tell you the truth, should start working on something, but truthfully, I don't know if reading about someone else's experiences would help you if you've had none of your own. The thing being, the experiences occur so regularly that I really don't think about recording them. It would be like recording every time my computer turned on when I pressed the power button, or recording waking up.
 
So, you're redefining 'strawman?'
Nope, but you should probably know that already.
No, you seem to be using it in a unique way.
Okay. We'll pretend that 'strawman' means 'the only god that atheists attack' and nothing to do with whether or not any believers actually describe their god as tri-omni.
Why don't we just use the term strawman the way we always do? Obviously one of the strawmen of God that atheists attack is the tri-omni God.
See, there, you're changing your use of 'strawman.' So why pretend that YOUR use is the way 'we always do?'
Why call the being primordial energy, consciousness, ability, goals, or whatever? Why call anyone anything?
Ah. So you'd actually prefer us to make assumptions so that you can quip, rather than discuss. S'alright
And what, if anything, makes you think he, she, it exists?
Experiences of it.
Okay.
Lacking any experiences of IT, we have no reason to think that your 'it' exists anywhere outside of your head.
There, done, next god!
Dude, I'm not the fucking being we are talking about.
No, as far as i can tell, you are.
You've got voices in your head, or whatever your personal experience is. We don't share that.
To us, your god doesn't exist any more than your favorite masturbatory image.
but truthfully, I don't know if reading about someone else's experiences would help you if you've had none of your own.
Truthfully, voices in your head are not compelling evidence in mine, no.
 
Yeah... sure. Which is why you assume any reference to God is of the tri-omni variety, rather than of the one besieged by assholes and dickheads complaining about shit instead of taking care of it?

I do not assume any reference to God is of the tri-omni variety.
Never, in your life, have you made that assumption about a reference to God? Not even for a second, before you reconsidered someone's comments? :D

For whatever reason, I thought you were the originator of the omniscience comment... I looked back and saw it was someone else.
 
No, you seem to be using it in a unique way.
Sure I do.
See, there, you're changing your use of 'strawman.'
Ok, don't know why you're making that false claim. Do you not understand what I wrote, or are you just throwing out a fish?
So you'd actually prefer us to make assumptions so that you can quip, rather than discuss. S'alright
That's a pretty big assumption you're making about my preferences.
Lacking any experiences of IT, we have no reason to think that your 'it' exists anywhere outside of your head.
Yeah. That's where I start to doubt the veracity of what you're saying. I really don't see how you can possibly, at your age, not have had the same type of experiences that I've had. Either you're extremely unobservant, engage in hyperactive agency acknowledgment avoidance, or something else is going on (you're military, so you could be up a bit in the hierarchy, or simply brainwashed).

Now, some of the experiences of coordination have been with a friend of mine who is connected with the military, but I really can't think of why someone would spend all the time and effort to coordinate events around the life of someone as poor and insignificant as me (perhaps make a willing slave?? I've a decent amount of semi-useful skills, and have been held down financially and socially my whole life- tricked into various acts that are used as excuses to hold me down). Not really sure what they could gain from it, besides a certain sense of understanding from me (I like coordinated events), which might not be a very useful thing from someone of my intellectual and physical capabilities (although I did run over 13.5 miles today, but it took me about 2 hours, with a break to take a picture of the woods I was running through).

Maybe a bit of confirmation bias on my part- not.

When I arrived back in the area, I stayed with an old friend in one part of the area for a bit. Then I went to another town and stayed with another old friend. Then I stayed with a third friend for a bit, while I worked on various projects in the area (one at someone's house who I had talked to an old friend the night before I arrived back in the area). Then I stayed with a forth old friend, whose lived across the street from where my old friend in the other town had lived years before- I joked with my buddy in the older town that I was sticking close to their various homes, which were spread out over the area.

Anyway, 5 minutes after I arrived at this 4th old friends house, as we shot the shit, my friends next door neighbor called looking for me to help him out with something, because I had told him I'd help him out with some stuff at some point. He was happy about the coincidence of me being right next door when he needed me. He said we needed to go out this one avenue to get to his girlfriends house, and I said "Is it near so and so street?" and he said "holy shit, how do you know that road, it only has 3 houses on it?" and I told him my friends who I stayed with when I first got to the area lived at the corner house. He said his girlfriend lived next door to them (turns out I had meet her while I was staying with my friends). So I basically hung out in 4 very specific locations since I've been back to town, all interconnected with one another. Now, it could simply be coordinated efforts of various people who know me.

The funny thing is, the person I'm supposed to call for work worked at the restaurant I thought was cool, that wass on top of the mountain that I ran up when I stayed with the person in the other town.


Honestly though, it could simply be a conspiracy of people who want to use me to accomplish things that they want to get done (of course, I have that ingrained sense of justice, that I have to help out and can't sit around and be a fucking lump, which could also be the result of manipulation, genetic, hollywood, or otherwise). In today's interconnected digital world, it would be very easy for people to coordinate events like these, but seriously... so it could just be a bunch of people doing everything.

Buuuutttt..... I've had other experiences, which once again would only indicate that technology exists that would allow people to coordinate brain function with external events (or at least technology exists that allows hypnotic suggestion to coordinate inner brain function with external events).

Hell, I still remember when I got post 7,605,666 at the old forum. Now, it's shut down now, so I can't check the forum from another computer to verify that I am the only individual to ever get set up with that post. Hell, how would I be able to tell- I'd have to verify somehow that I don't have any implants that computers could scan, etc. technology that would be easily available to the higher echelons at this point in time.

So basically, all the knowledge I have indicates a bit of coordination of efforts to manipulate me into working. Then again, I think we all know what the most useful products are. Knowledge, order, and pleasure (and ultimately relationships with others- I still love my friends who give me shit and harass me, which is... you know, normal).

And I don't know if I'm very useful for the attainment of knowledge. Perhaps I could serve sammiches at a restaurant? Once again, that doesn't really advance any agenda for beings that can coordinate events with hidden technology that is unrevealed to Genpop, although Genpop has been prepared for the technology being revealed through tons of movies aimed at dulling the shock of the actual reveal.

Perhaps having a large support network for rich people to travel around and enjoy life? Perhaps it's for all of us to enjoy (except me- I've been manipulated out of travel my whole life, even when I allegedly flew for free on USAIR for a few years, things always worked out in ways that I got to do absolutely nothing). Haha... I even had people offer to by me a new computer, give me a car and a fucking house, but I always was forced to say no by the circumstances. A bunch of fucking bullshit, and both I and the people who offered know it, but of course I had to be fucking polite and do the right thing (I can complain here, and although it WILL get back to them, it doesn't fucking matter).

Unless, of course, they are as screwed in hierarchy placement as I am. Which it looks like at certain times, but I've had the experience of feeling completely awesome without doing anything at all, so perhaps there is that for certain people that aren't constantly attacked by needs..... :D



Anyway. So, it could be anything. I was talking to you guys about apples the other day, and my friend brought back a red's apple ale. Dude probably just stalks my thoughts online. Everyone is interconnected.

And that isn't even beginning to cover the interconnections to the early story of my life. Which, once again, maybe a lot of people are provided with the same back stories, maybe the exact same stories, same names, etc. but they are then used for various menial tasks, and the rich and powerful manipulate the servant classes into not ever exchanging information that shows they have had similar experiences coming up in life.

The other side is- there may be a God coordinating events. Which would mean I really don't have to work hard, and I can have a good life. Or maybe I do have to work hard... hehe...
 
To foil this interconnected conspiracy of coordination and manipulation, and any undetected brain implants, I suggest fabricating a lead lined tinfoil hat. Wear it at all times.

By the by, according to old Jake, an expert on these matters, the entire world-wide conspiracy is being 'run by those God damned Adventists'.
 
Last edited:
To foil this interconnected conspiracy of coordination and manipulation, and any undetected brain implants, I suggest fabricating a lead lined tinfoil hat. Wear it at all times.
I find it easier to dunk my head in mercury- I find that this makes me hyper-aware of the conspiracies going on around me.
By the by, according to old Jake, an expert on these matters, the entire world-wide conspiracy is being 'run by those God damned Adventists'.
Which is why I timed the message for a Saturday night, so they couldn't intercept it. Of course, now the machine is turning again...

Seriously though- the conspiracy to ridicule those who believe in conspiracies is just the first salvo in the war for global domination. Am I the only one who isn't conspiring with anyone to gain power over others?
 
I find it easier to dunk my head in mercury- I find that this makes me hyper-aware of the conspiracies going on around me.
By the by, according to old Jake, an expert on these matters, the entire world-wide conspiracy is being 'run by those God damned Adventists'.
Which is why I timed the message for a Saturday night, so they couldn't intercept it. Of course, now the machine is turning again...

Seriously though- the conspiracy to ridicule those who believe in conspiracies is just the first salvo in the war for global domination. Am I the only one who isn't conspiring with anyone to gain power over others?

I'm smelling POE now.

Coincidences happen all the time. And many studies have been done about "luck" and the things which lead to apparent differences in it.

But I really can't tell if you are serious about what you wrote. It seems kind of far-fetched to me.

You are saying you believe in a malevolent god of coincidences?
 
we shot the shit
What a suprise... Not...
I do find myself wondering if you know what that means. Every once in a while your English skills, and grasp of various aspects of slang, make me think you are not native to the tongue.

It made perfect sense to me. I think he's implying that you are shoveling a lot of a thing that people might call "bullshit" on this forum, so it hardly surprises him that you do a similar thing while away from here. Perhaps implying, with delicious irony, that "bullshit" is _your_ native language.
 
By flat earth, we mean a spherical earth with a relatively flat surface where there are no mountains of any significance. We actually do not know what the land surface was like before the flood. There is no solid dome - I think this idea comes from Jewish speculation.

You earlier asserted "According to the Bible, "all the fountains of the great deep were broken up, and the windows of heaven were opened." " as sources of water for the flood before "the rains came":

http://talkfreethought.org/showthre...uare-circle-quot&p=20737&viewfull=1#post20737

However, in the post just above, you modified this to "The Bible is clear that there were two sources of the water - rain and the breaking up of the fountains of the deep. "

Why is that?

The windows of heaven refers to the source of the rain. So, two sources of water for the flood: rain and fountains of the deep (water coming up out of the ground).

Now you note that "There is no solid dome - I think this idea comes from Jewish speculation." However, "the windows of heaven were opened", which you previously cited as a source of water, is based upon that "speculation" - which was the worldview of the writer the flood myth.

The term, "windows of heaven," comes from the Genesis account. That these "windows" referred to a solid dome surrounding the earth is speculation.

Now you've trimmed it down to "the fountains of the deep", discounting the "windows" portion of the myth as "Jewish speculation" - failing to note that the "fountains of the deep" notion cited in the myth is based on the same "Jewish speculation" that you here discount.

No. The Genesis account has, "In the six hundredth year of Noah’s life, in the second month, the seventeenth day of the month, the same day were all the fountains of the great deep broken up, and the windows of heaven were opened." Jewish speculation did not create these terms but seeks to describe what the author meant.
 
I'm smelling POE now.
Hey lady! Ed's dead.
Coincidences happen all the time. And many studies have been done about "luck" and the things which lead to apparent differences in it.
They do. It's the ones that stand out that make you go "hmmm...". Thinking of an old family friend, and then they call the next day. Then that day, think of another old family friend, and they call the next day. Not mentioning any of this to anyone, totally unrelated individuals.

Then the other day, while running by some horses (I run.. a decent amount), I thought a totally evil thought and they started whinnying and bucking. I stopped thinking the thought, they calmed down but looked spooked. I indulged in the thought again, they started bucking. I noticed and suppressed the thought, the horses calmed down. Maybe tested it again, remember deciding not to think evil thoughts if it seemed that beings were sensitive to my thoughts, not wanting to cause them fear or pain. No chance for pheromone transmission, the wind was the wrong direction, and I was too far away. Of course I considered that it could be an elaborate hallucination orchestrated by my mind.

Or like when you're hanging out by yourself, and people walk up who are talking about what you are thinking about. It could simply be that you have many thought streams going on at once, and certain ones are brought to the surface by the activities going on around you. But it certainly seems like someone walked up who was talking about what you were thinking.

Or the other day, when I was talking with my new roommate about someone specific, and they popped around the corner. It's very possible that they guided the conversation towards me mentioning the person while the person waited to hear their name mentioned, and then they walked around the corner.

It wouldn't be hard to do- that is, use conversation to guide people to certain ideas, and then have them orchestrated to come together in a certain way in reality. It's just the question of the purpose of doing these things- is it for love or power? If it's for love, sure. If it's for power, that basically forces me to drag my feet, make sure I don't work hard, etc. so that the manipulators don't get anything good through their manipulation. And I've always worked hard out of a sense of pride anyway, so that sort of screws that. I simply quit working sometimes when I get too pissed off at the situations I'm in, in which others manipulate and gain while I am at the fucking bottom.
But I really can't tell if you are serious about what you wrote. It seems kind of far-fetched to me.
That all the coincidences occurred? They did. It was just part of a great series of coincidences that have occurred in my life. A large amount of which could be explained by me having some form of delusional thinking, or maybe my mind re-orders events after the fact to create the illusion of the events happening in the order they appeared to have happened. Or maybe people are setting me up to think or do certain things.

So, for example, this herbalist stopped by my friend's shop (my friend who I stayed with when I first arrived back east) and started complaining about someone wanting them to order herbs for them, presumably so they could use them in something the person was going to sell. Well, this reminded me of the first girl I ever asked on a date (wow... was that awkward), who I hadn't seen in about 20 years, and that had been while she worked at her mom's herb shop. So I asked the person if they knew so and so (the girl) because she had worked at this herb shop about 20 years ago, and they said no. Well, that night, I went out with my friends to go to the new brewery that was down the road from their shop. Loh and behold, who was there but the girl I had known some 20 years ago, who I had asked about earlier.

Of course, my friend could have known about these associations, and set me up to be surprised. They had been mentioning going to the new brewery for a while, and they are certainly social enough to have found out my association with the girl and a bit of information about her background, and they are also certainly intelligent enough to use it and knowledge about the both of us to entertain me and make me feel connected- and maybe to trick me into thinking that there is some higher power interacting with me.
You are saying you believe in a malevolent god of coincidences?
Malevolent seems to imply malevolence. I'd say instead, perhaps an opportunistic "God" of coincidences. Or it is simply individuals trying to control other individuals in order to create power and comfort for themselves.

I'd say, perhaps there is a desire to have conscious individuals take care of shit that powerful individuals want to get out of. So you have to either deceive the conscious entities that you are enlisting to do as you want, or you need to manipulate them in various other more blatant ways.

To build a large powerful system that supports your pleasure and comfort, while various conscious entities are aware of your pleasure and comfort at the cost of their labor, requires conscious entities that are self sacrificing, stupid, or a combination of the 2. Of course, the ultimate builder of the system must make it look as if they cannot enjoy the fruits of the system they design, and must make it look like being on top of the system is stressful (I have to think about the destruction of the system!! OMG, a war!!! OMG, a fake asteroid!!!).

The very top must have absolutely no empathy for the bottom, in order to enjoy the fruits of the system without any remorse. This being the case, when the bottom learns this, the bottom drops out of the system, and the whole system collapses, but there is an infinite amount of ignorance to be used for the top to enjoy their power. Just have to make sure nobody else ever becomes coordinated or intelligent enough to threaten you, instill a sense of love between those at the bottom, instill a fear of what the collapse of the system will bring, etc.

This shit has all been thought out WAY before the internet was released to the wild. Then again, I've never been able to hear a kid cry, or see someone in a lot of pain and not want to help them out- so I'm genetically predispositioned to serving others in need. Well, and I feel like keeping stuff orderly, clean, in tight shape, etc.


Ohh, yeah, so the other day at a gas station, we saw this hot girl pumping gas. She waved at me and smiled while I looked at her, and I thought she was my one friend's wife (someone from way back in the day), mentioned it to the driver. So, as we were driving back into town, I finally got ahold of my one friend about renting a room from them (had to find one that day, actually). Forgot about mentioning my friends wife til the next day.

That day, I got back home. A friend had been calling about me pissing in a jar so they wouldn't get a hot urine test, which cracked me up. So I did it. Anyway, I decided to take a nap, I was fuckin' tired from moving rocks, etc. People kept on fucking calling me, so I turned my ringer off (not usual to get lots of calls, unless I really want a fucking nap!). Well, this made me miss my friend's call, who needed piss. He went into the office of the apartment building I'm staying at to try and find out which apartment I was in (and they couldn't tell him for various legal reasons- even though one of them knew him...).

So, I finally wake up, see I have 6 missed calls, and apologize to my friend for sleeping on the job. I walk out to hand him the piss. He told me he had talked to my friends wife, who had just got a job at the apartment complex I just moved into the day before. So the girl I thought I saw at the gas station turned out not to be her (my friend's wife), but she did happen to work in the apartment complex I moved into the day I thought I saw her at the gas station. I didn't talk to her for a few more days- looked for her the one day, missed her, and then finally got to say hi to her and ask her how her and my friend are doing.


And then, to keep up with the whole coincidence thing, I had talked to her hot older coworker about some maintenance stuff, and she told me to grab this stuff called "The Works" to dissolve mineral build up. Well, eventually I bought some (not the first time I saw it, but the next time... she told me it would be 99 cents, but it was more- and I'm a stingy spender sometimes).

So, I bought it a few days ago, but it in the toilet to dissolve the mineral buildup and the stuff worked. Totally awesome. I'd used muriatic acid (HCl), nitric, citric acid, etc.. but this stuff just blew the shit away. So, our ex-roommate (yeah, I call them that, although I've only been here 13 days and they just moved out) brought this drunk girl home from the bar that night, and we joked around about the stuff eating away at your skin (which my friends coworker had warned me about- it will dissolve carpet... awesome stuff) and told her to be careful when she used the toilet.

My roommate liked the fact that the stuff we used was recommended by someone with the same name as the drunk girl our other roommate brought home that night. He even asked if it was the stuff that "x" had recommended, and found it entertaining and funny that we warned another female "X" about the stuff the other female named "X" had warned us about.


So, yeah. I really don't see how someone with even a modicum of intelligence couldn't notice these coincidences happening. I mean, they happen all the fucking time.
 
Last edited:
By flat earth, we mean a spherical earth with a relatively flat surface where there are no mountains of any significance. We actually do not know what the land surface was like before the flood. There is no solid dome - I think this idea comes from Jewish speculation.

You earlier asserted "According to the Bible, "all the fountains of the great deep were broken up, and the windows of heaven were opened." " as sources of water for the flood before "the rains came":

http://talkfreethought.org/showthre...uare-circle-quot&p=20737&viewfull=1#post20737

However, in the post just above, you modified this to "The Bible is clear that there were two sources of the water - rain and the breaking up of the fountains of the deep. "

Why is that?

The windows of heaven refers to the source of the rain. So, two sources of water for the flood: rain and fountains of the deep (water coming up out of the ground).

Now you note that "There is no solid dome - I think this idea comes from Jewish speculation." However, "the windows of heaven were opened", which you previously cited as a source of water, is based upon that "speculation" - which was the worldview of the writer the flood myth.

The term, "windows of heaven," comes from the Genesis account. That these "windows" referred to a solid dome surrounding the earth is speculation.

Now you've trimmed it down to "the fountains of the deep", discounting the "windows" portion of the myth as "Jewish speculation" - failing to note that the "fountains of the deep" notion cited in the myth is based on the same "Jewish speculation" that you here discount.

No. The Genesis account has, "In the six hundredth year of Noah’s life, in the second month, the seventeenth day of the month, the same day were all the fountains of the great deep broken up, and the windows of heaven were opened." Jewish speculation did not create these terms but seeks to describe what the author meant.

Convoluted pretzel logic to the rescue!

"There is no solid dome - I think this idea comes from Jewish speculation."
"Jewish speculation did not create these terms [the fountains of the great deep , and the windows of heaven]"

Once again, for your edification...here's how the authors of the Noah account viewed the universe...

Ancient-Hebrew-view-of-universe.png
 
Is that Asgard? It looks a bit like something from the Thor movies. The rainbow bridge from the heavens, etc.

She'ole in the underworld, she'young in heaven.
 
"There is no solid dome - I think this idea comes from Jewish speculation."
"Jewish speculation did not create these terms [the fountains of the great deep , and the windows of heaven]"

Once again, for your edification...here's how the authors of the Noah account viewed the universe...

Ancient-Hebrew-view-of-universe.png

Your citation says nothing about the accurate understanding of the Scriptures.

It says, "The ancient Israelites..." meaning that this was a belief of those Israelites and can be attributed to their understanding of the universe - or their speculation about the meaning of the Scriptures. The Scriptures do not speak specifically of a solid dome - one must read this meaning into the text.

Your citation is NOT "...how the authors of the Noah account viewed the universe..." It is a person's understanding of "...how the authors of the Noah account viewed the universe..."
 
.
Your citation says nothing about the accurate understanding of the Scriptures.

It says, "The ancient Israelites..." meaning that this was a belief of those Israelites and can be attributed to their understanding of the universe - or their speculation about the meaning of the Scriptures. The Scriptures do not speak specifically of a solid dome - one must read this meaning into the text.

Your citation is NOT "...how the authors of the Noah account viewed the universe..." It is a person's understanding of "...how the authors of the Noah account viewed the universe..."

6 And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.
7 And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so.

That is indeed what Genesis says.

The word in Hebrew may be translated in several ways, including firmament. It is derived from the word raqi, meaning beaten out as a metal tray is formed by hammering, water below this dome and above. How can anything else divide waters above and below?

You are not exactly being persuasive. Note this dome has windows

Genesis 7
11 In the six hundredth year of Noah's life, in the second month, the seventeenth day of the month, the same day were all the fountains of the great deep broken up, and the windows of heaven were opened.

So we know full well what these myth writers thought about it! If indeed there was water above the firmament, how could there be any visible stars, moon or sun? This all doesn't work does it? All that is left for literalists are desperate word games.

The fountains of the deep are from the water supposedly underneath the expanse where God gathered dry land, Earth surrounded by water. That's not a round Earth. Nor the way the planet really is, is it? Genesis is a total crock. So is creationism.
 
.
Your citation says nothing about the accurate understanding of the Scriptures.

It says, "The ancient Israelites..." meaning that this was a belief of those Israelites and can be attributed to their understanding of the universe - or their speculation about the meaning of the Scriptures. The Scriptures do not speak specifically of a solid dome - one must read this meaning into the text.

Your citation is NOT "...how the authors of the Noah account viewed the universe..." It is a person's understanding of "...how the authors of the Noah account viewed the universe..."

6 And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.
7 And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so.

That is indeed what Genesis says.

The word in Hebrew may be translated in several ways, including firmament. It is derived from the word raqi, meaning beaten out as a metal tray is formed by hammering, water below this dome and above. How can anything else divide waters above and below?

You are not exactly being persuasive. Note this dome has windows

Genesis 7
11 In the six hundredth year of Noah's life, in the second month, the seventeenth day of the month, the same day were all the fountains of the great deep broken up, and the windows of heaven were opened.

So we know full well what these myth writers thought about it! If indeed there was water above the firmament, how could there be any visible stars, moon or sun? This all doesn't work does it? All that is left for literalists are desperate word games.

The fountains of the deep are from the water supposedly underneath the expanse where God gathered dry land, Earth surrounded by water. That's not a round Earth. Nor the way the planet really is, is it? Genesis is a total crock. So is creationism.
In any other game, this would be check-mate. But in the game of Obfuscation, it shouldn't take too much to get out of this one.
 
Back
Top Bottom