GOP versus Trump

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

Saw an article this morning:
A YUGE number of conservatives just shredded Donald Trump in the National Review
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...shredded-donald-trump-in-the-national-review/

They could have just as easily entitled it Trump demolishes National Review. His tweets about them were spot-on which are included in the article.

Apparently, the National Review is also now removed as a debate sponsor. So, WOW.

It will be interesting how this plays out.

 

[SLD]

The Trumpster's conservative bona fides are not there. He used to be pro-choice even! A killer in the republican party these days. But it doesn't matter. He's been born again. Hallelujah!! Don't you see how he quoted "2 Corinthians" the other day!

Besides who are they going to replace him with? Cruz? Seriously? That man is utterly insane. He is an intelligent psychopath. The establishment GOP utterly detest him. Bob Dole said Trump was better. McCain and McConnell find him a complete anathema. So do most other GOP senators. They absolutely cannot stand him. They will support Trump over Cruz, and I bet have already made their phone calls to as many big money supporters as they can. That means so much of the mainstream GOP will support him and he becomes the darling of all the republicans. And hopefully he will bring down the party in November. Burn it in flames and assign it and its racism to the dust bin of history.

SLD

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Oddly, Kasich is tracking 2nd in New Hampshire. Kasich was the obvious second establishment choice behind Bush. The establishment can easily live with Kasich, but his polling in South Carolina is a little below zero.

 

[SLD]

Oddly, Kasich is tracking 2nd in New Hampshire. Kasich was the obvious second establishment choice behind Bush. The establishment can easily live with Kasich, but his polling in South Carolina is a little below zero.

Kasich is the obvious VP choice. He's more centrist, and he might be able to deliver Ohio. Or does Trump pick Rubio and go for Florida?

Naaaah! He picks Palin of course!! I mean why not go with a tried and true candidate? Kasich and Rubio would be a betrayal to his base. Trump is a maverick. He goes for the maverick pick.

SLD

 

[maxparrish]

The Trumpster's conservative bona fides are not there. He used to be pro-choice even! A killer in the republican party these days. But it doesn't matter. He's been born again. Hallelujah!! Don't you see how he quoted "2 Corinthians" the other day!

Besides who are they going to replace him with? Cruz? Seriously? That man is utterly insane. He is an intelligent psychopath. The establishment GOP utterly detest him. Bob Dole said Trump was better. McCain and McConnell find him a complete anathema. So do most other GOP senators. They absolutely cannot stand him. They will support Trump over Cruz, and I bet have already made their phone calls to as many big money supporters as they can. That means so much of the mainstream GOP will support him and he becomes the darling of all the republicans. And hopefully he will bring down the party in November. Burn it in flames and assign it and its racism to the dust bin of history.

SLD

For better or worse "they" don't have much choice in the matter regarding Trump or in who replaces him. Trump started his campaign by shamelessly siding with those angry over relentless immigration - that huge block of populists in the GOP that the Republican establishment ridiculed or patronized.

Bush had confidently crowned himself, and declared he would ignore the populist wing and campaign for the general. Rubio previously damaged his credibility by heedlessly pushing for his, and Schumur's, immigration-amnesty reform. Christie had already waffled on the issue. Here-to-fore the populists had met an elite wall of denial, the constant mantra from the GOP-Chamber of Commerce-WSJ crowd that the polls show that the GOP voter supported "immigration reform" (i.e. amnesty and open borders).

Now the GOP establishment is sitting shell shocked - bitch slapped by the voting block that they routinely disrespect and dismiss. They under-estimated the nature and scope of the know nothing right-wing populism that dominates at least a third to half of the party, and can't really absorb the overwhelming anti-establishment antipathy that has been building for years.

The key elements are simple: patriotism, tariffs, protect "good" pork, help the little guy, and anti-immigrant. They have no more use for Wall Street than they do for K-street. Its all the same corrupt elites to them.

Now the role of the Cruz element? Well that is a different kettle of fish.

 

[Cheerful Charlie]

So, the GOP "establishment" does not like Trump, or Cruz, but has no obvious choice they can coalesce behind and win with. A problem for them it seems. And The question is, where does this all go from here? Who the hell is the 'establishment' anyway? The politics of resentment is now a golem that may well destroy its creator and I don't see any way to stop this and go back to "normal". The start of a presidential campaign does not seem to me a good time for the GOP to start arguments like this among themselves. Can anybody here even define "establishment" in regards to the GOP anymore? Not the Bushes obviously. If the Democrats were smart and organized and well led this could be a golden opportunity. This is getting just all too weird to deal with. Its beginning to feel like Germany during the collapse of the Weimar republic in the 20's.

 

[Bronzeage]

Oddly, Kasich is tracking 2nd in New Hampshire. Kasich was the obvious second establishment choice behind Bush. The establishment can easily live with Kasich, but his polling in South Carolina is a little below zero.

Kasich is the obvious VP choice. He's more centrist, and he might be able to deliver Ohio. Or does Trump pick Rubio and go for Florida?

Naaaah! He picks Palin of course!! I mean why not go with a tried and true candidate? Kasich and Rubio would be a betrayal to his base. Trump is a maverick. He goes for the maverick pick.

SLD

If Trump were seriously going to choose Sarah Palin, he would have bought Comedy Central from Viacom, first.

 

[maxparrish]

So, the GOP "establishment" does not like Trump, or Cruz, but has no obvious choice they can coalesce behind and win with. A problem for them it seems. And The question is, where does this all go from here? Who the hell is the 'establishment' anyway? The politics of resentment is now a golem that may well destroy its creator and I don't see any way to stop this and go back to "normal". The start of a presidential campaign does not seem to me a good time for the GOP to start arguments like this among themselves. Can anybody here even define "establishment" in regards to the GOP anymore? Not the Bushes obviously. If the Democrats were smart and organized and well led this could be a golden opportunity. This is getting just all too weird to deal with. Its beginning to feel like Germany during the collapse of the Weimar republic in the 20's.

You have hit on it; the politics of resentment is a golem. The Republican party lost much of the ordinary NE and NW (and California) white middle class and professionals, while absorbing the right-wing populists of the Midwest, great plains and the south. The marriage with working class FDR democrats and evangelicals was, for a while, a natural cultural fit. Hence, the early 1980s cultural rejection of "San Francisco Democrats" and weak "NE liberals like Dukakis" by the US population worked to Republican advantage.

However, the main street business Republican, middle class WASP, and older Catholic conservatism is no longer in control. The populists are in a rage, and now look at EVERYONE as the enemy, including the "intellectual" conservatives. EVERYONE who is in office has failed them. To the yahoos, the WSJ, National Review, Weekly Standard, Commentary, and every standard conservative think tanks IS the failed establishment...they are clueless as to the polarized battles (for example) between National Review and the WSJ over open borders.

So here is the GOP leadership's reaction to the new Trump Overlords:

[youtube]<iframe width="854" height="480" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/8lcUHQYhPTE" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>[/youtube]

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

The key elements are simple: patriotism, tariffs, protect "good" pork, help the little guy, and anti-immigrant. They have no more use for Wall Street than they do for K-street. Its all the same corrupt elites to them.

Translations:
"patriotism": nationalism;
"tariffs": make people pay extra who you don't like;
"protect 'good' pork": selfish interests;
"help the little guy": social welfare for me but not anyone else;
"anti-immigrant": racism.

 

[arkirk]

The key elements are simple: patriotism, tariffs, protect "good" pork, help the little guy, and anti-immigrant. They have no more use for Wall Street than they do for K-street. Its all the same corrupt elites to them.

Translations:
"patriotism": nationalism;
"tariffs": make people pay extra who you don't like;
"protect 'good' pork": selfish interests;
"help the little guy": social welfare for me but not anyone else;
"anti-immigrant": racism.

Ad in a dash of Palin and you have the perfect Republican slate for the high office...Trump vp and Palin Pres. Let the Republicans nominate this team of morons. Quit making noise and let them have their two bit victory...it is after all only the stupidest of Repugs who would vote for this duo.

 

[untermensche]

These are the somewhat sane Republicans who should have spoken up a lot sooner about the craziness in their Party.

Once you have enough insanity such that Trump has wide appeal in the Party, it is too late.

 

[zorq]

These are the somewhat sane Republicans who should have spoken up a lot sooner about the craziness in their Party.

Once you have enough insanity such that Trump has wide appeal in the Party, it is too late.

Careful there. I think you just accidentally called Glen Beck "somewhat sane." But otherwise, I generally agree with you that the articles make valid points about Trump.

And I loved seeing Trump respond to the criticism in tweets, not by addressing and refuting the content, but instead by sending out ad hom attacks and questioning the motives of the National Review. IT was so deliciously his style, I couldn't help but LOL.

 

[maxparrish]

These are the somewhat sane Republicans who should have spoken up a lot sooner about the craziness in their Party.

Once you have enough insanity such that Trump has wide appeal in the Party, it is too late.

Careful there. I think you just accidentally called Glen Beck "somewhat sane." But otherwise, I generally agree with you that the articles make valid points about Trump.

And I loved seeing Trump respond to the criticism in tweets, not by addressing and refuting the content, but instead by sending out ad hom attacks and questioning the motives of the National Review. IT was so deliciously his style, I couldn't help but LOL.

If, as it seems, Trump is nominated he has a good shot at being elected. Several months ago I would have said 'no way', BUT his "negatives" keep declining. Moreover, much to my surprise, there is a number of cross-over brain-dead voters who rate Trump and Sanders as two sides of the same coin. If Hillary is nominated, expect a portion of those voters to swing to Trump.

Latest poll actually shows Trump LEADING Hillary Clinton by one point in a general election. Suddenly the guy is "credible" to the public and he's starting to draw from blacks...not a whole lot, but more than you would expect.

Athena was right...Trump is a threat to win the general. Folks are looking for a strong leader, and empty platitudes such as "make America great" sell.

And guess what, if Trump is nominated I just might vote for Bernie should that be the choice. Politics have become too surreal to make sense anymore. At least Sanders appeals to my love of S and G. Great commercial.

 

[maxparrish]

By the way, you all should have seen the Fox folk today. They went crazy angry at NR for questioning Trump's ability to be a great leader. The Trump virus has swept most of FOX...the anger at dissenting conservatives was mouth foaming.

 

[Cheerful Charlie]

If Trump sweeps Iowa and New Hampshire, I wonder how many lessor candidates will give up and drop out? Or will we have to wait for Super Tuesday to see the cull?

 

[maxparrish]

If Trump sweeps Iowa and New Hampshire, I wonder how many lessor candidates will give up and drop out? Or will we have to wait for Super Tuesday to see the cull?

Depends on the polls and the states. I am not sure the order, but if Trump takes Florida it might be over. On the other hand, Reagan lost early in 1976 and made a fight of it all the way to the convention, coming within a few votes of taking it. Trump is going to hard to beat in the South, but in California and the west coast it is a different story.

 

[untermensche]

These are the somewhat sane Republicans who should have spoken up a lot sooner about the craziness in their Party.

Once you have enough insanity such that Trump has wide appeal in the Party, it is too late.

Careful there. I think you just accidentally called Glen Beck "somewhat sane." But otherwise, I generally agree with you that the articles make valid points about Trump.

And I loved seeing Trump respond to the criticism in tweets, not by addressing and refuting the content, but instead by sending out ad hom attacks and questioning the motives of the National Review. IT was so deliciously his style, I couldn't help but LOL.

It's a great show but really Trump is tearing the Republican party apart.

The only thing it has going for it is that there are a certain percentage of people that will vote Republican no matter what. Put Trump or my pet goat on the ticket and a certain amount of Americans will vote for them.

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

By the way, you all should have seen the Fox folk today. They went crazy angry at NR for questioning Trump's ability to be a great leader. The Trump virus has swept most of FOX...the anger at dissenting conservatives was mouth foaming.

Most of the time I turn on Fox News & Friends, the pundits' loud arrogance makes my ears bleed. So I think I am just going to take your word for it that gangs of monkeys are screeching and throwing feces at each other. On the other hand, maybe I will watch it with the volume muted.

 

[Cheerful Charlie]

A lot of the angry folk at National Review like to style themselves as "Movement Conservatives". Apparently a lot of self described conservatives have abandoned the Movement Conservative faction. Could this be the end of Movement Conservativism? Trump does not seem to have a general platform that corresponds to anything like the Reagan Revolution.

 

[ZiprHead]

Does Trump actually have a platform other than general platitudes and saying anyone who is against him is dumb?