laughing dog
Contributor
That is what makes him a Muslim, not whether he pledged to ISIS.
That is simply untrue. Identifying myself as _____ does not make me ______.
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Features
Great news! Over 20 dead in Orlando Night Club!
- Thread starter Jimmy Higgins
- Start date
That is what makes him a Muslim, not whether he pledged to ISIS.
Yes, I think gun control is not just about taking guns out of killer’s hands, it’d help establish a desperately needed change in attitude and move us toward a future where our status quo is viewed as insane.
How does “people will still get hold of guns” really work as an argument against gun control? This man bought the weapons legally. He really should have had much more difficulty getting the guns.
There are a lot of laws that don’t stop the crime, but they still act as deterrents, they still make getting hold of illegal items more difficult, and they do help the legal process when the perp is caught. Right now people are wondering “How do we tell which person might go on a killing spree?” One answer is “Does he even WANT a gun? If so, then there’s serious potential that’s a fucked up person”.
Why is America so violent? Maybe partly because we don’t set stronger precedents against violence as a problem-solver. A law against guns would get the message out: “Guns can only seem like a solution, to anything at all, if you’re twisted”.
repoman
Contributor
If the blanks are "woman" and "woman" for Caitlyn Jenner you are a transphobe!
repoman
Contributor
Go Bernie!
repoman
Contributor
And what does that make Donald Trump?
Raping a virgin to cure AIDS?
repoman
Contributor
By the way, I really wonder if some ISIS fuckhead watched Braveheart for the inspiration to throw gays off tall buildings. Was that method of execution used for gays historically?
If there was a bombing of a mosque by gays (proven) that would be mind-blowing in a very bad way. The knock on effects would be a disaster. But now it can't be out of the realm of possibility.
Philos
Veteran Member
CS,
This is exactly right. We know that Trump's Muslim 'ban' would not have stopped the shooting because the man was an American citizen living in the US and (probably) bought his guns legally. However, this will not wash with emotional/angry voters as the point is too fine.
OTOH Trump's challenge that Obama and Hillary will not mention 'radical Islam' may well resonate with those same voters. The Dems need to parse this very clearly, calling out ISIL in no uncertain terms but still separating that censure from Islam as a whole. As often happens the Dems have a true but difficult to explain narrative and Trump has a clear soundbite on a dubious narrative. That's politics.
I have great faith in Hillary, and dearly hope that she can cut through Trump's sophistry.
Alex.
PS - As a Brit I am also aware that this event will play badly with Brexit. The voting is in a few days and hangs in the balance. Again, the right wing of politics have the easy soundbite - 'Close the borders!' and they will use it. I am voting to stay in Europe, but after the shootings in Paris I don't know many people who are strongly on this side of the question.
barbos
Contributor
Not according to people in US administration at the time.
Don2 (Don1 Revised)
Contributor
Indeed, it's part of the Islamo-Judeo-Christian tradition because it is part of ancient laws to stone them. The world is a complex place, though, and so for many reasons, frequency of killing the gays differs but is non-zero.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d2n7vSPwhSU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w83kIAfuKoE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NMkZ02NrxP8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WOGoDroQgZw
Leviticus 20:13 - . If there is a man who lies with a male as those who lie with a woman, both of them have committed a detestable act; they shall surely be put to death.
Yes Loren is going to break a ten year streak of not supporting his bullshit this one time.
Derec
Contributor
Being a US citizen does not always mean much.
This guy was US citizen too ...
Yes, Trump's Muslim ban would not have stopped this particular fucktard but it shows that policy of mass Muslim immigration is dangerous. Many Paris and Brussels terrorists were also 2nd generation Muslim immigrants. It's like a time bomb with a 1 generation fuse.
Indeed he has.
As indeed it should.
Islam as a whole needs to be taken to task on this. Radicalism and terrorism are not only endemic to Islam but so-called moderates often tacitly support many of the tenets of radical Islam. For example, support for Sharia:
Note 99% of Afghans support Sharia. I say that only the 1% that doesn't should even be considered for immigration into the West. Otherwise they raise children like this Omar Mateen.
No, Dems have their heads firmly stuck in the sand re Islam.As often happens the Dems have a true but difficult to explain narrative and Trump has a clear soundbite on a dubious narrative. That's politics.
LMAO!
Well with EU adamant to let in millions of Syrians, Iraqis, Afghans, Pakistanis, not to mention illegal African boat people, I am sure it will play a role.
T.G.G. Moogly
Traditional Atheist
What Trump says about muslims makes a lot of people feel better. Repeat - FEEL better. It won't stop another Orlando or Sandy Hook or make anyone safer but it feels good to think you're somehow getting even with these brownish camel fuckers.
I'd feel better if it wasn't so easy to go out and buy a couple dozen AR15 assault rifles and thousands of rounds of ammunition, but that's just me.
I'd feel better if it wasn't so easy to go out and buy a couple dozen AR15 assault rifles and thousands of rounds of ammunition, but that's just me.
RavenSky
The Doctor's Wife
If Trumps twitter bullshit isn't enough, the rest of the Republican politicians are on full NRA mode. Really stupid comment from Rep Adam Kinzinger R-IL on Morning Joe this morning: "I know this is going to turn into a gun debate. This is a terrorist attack."
Omar Mateen killed 50 people and injured 53 more within minutes with an AR-15 he bought in Florida just days before! If he had smuggled the gun in from Syria (and anyone could show that he was anything more than a wannabe), then we could limit our conversation to "Islamic terrorism". But he - a U.S. born citizen - used an AR-15 that he bought legally in a Florida store just days before he killed 50 people and injured 53 others.
Gunmen used AR-15's to kill 14 and seriously injure 22 people in San Bernardino, CA. Twenty children & 6 adults were killed at Sandy Hook with an AR-15. Twelve people were killed and seventy others were injured at Aurora Colorado. Two of those shootings involved white men with no ties to ISIS or Islam... not even dark suntans.
If you are a hunter, you don't need this kind of fire-power to shoot a deer (& if you do, you suck as a hunter!) If you are defending your home, you do not need this kind of fire-power to do it! This IS a gun-control discussion, & needs to be.
Sure Omar Mateen is a domestic terrorist. So was Adam Lanza. They are terrorizing us by being able to kill so many people so quickly with AR-15's! We do need to have this discussion Rep Adam Kinzinger and all you other NRA suck-ups... at least as to the AR-15's. It won't solve everything, but this is the common denominator here. Not ISIS. Not even homophobia, as much as I do not want to forget the victims in Orlando.
Omar Mateen killed 50 people and injured 53 more within minutes with an AR-15 he bought in Florida just days before! If he had smuggled the gun in from Syria (and anyone could show that he was anything more than a wannabe), then we could limit our conversation to "Islamic terrorism". But he - a U.S. born citizen - used an AR-15 that he bought legally in a Florida store just days before he killed 50 people and injured 53 others.
Gunmen used AR-15's to kill 14 and seriously injure 22 people in San Bernardino, CA. Twenty children & 6 adults were killed at Sandy Hook with an AR-15. Twelve people were killed and seventy others were injured at Aurora Colorado. Two of those shootings involved white men with no ties to ISIS or Islam... not even dark suntans.
If you are a hunter, you don't need this kind of fire-power to shoot a deer (& if you do, you suck as a hunter!) If you are defending your home, you do not need this kind of fire-power to do it! This IS a gun-control discussion, & needs to be.
Sure Omar Mateen is a domestic terrorist. So was Adam Lanza. They are terrorizing us by being able to kill so many people so quickly with AR-15's! We do need to have this discussion Rep Adam Kinzinger and all you other NRA suck-ups... at least as to the AR-15's. It won't solve everything, but this is the common denominator here. Not ISIS. Not even homophobia, as much as I do not want to forget the victims in Orlando.
T.G.G. Moogly
Traditional Atheist
Hey Ravensky, why do you hate America?
Potoooooooo
Contributor
http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...t-says-punishment-for-gay-people-is-up-to-god
Orlando gunman’s father condemns atrocity but says 'punishment' for gay people is up to God
Orlando gunman’s father condemns atrocity but says 'punishment' for gay people is up to God
Jimmy Higgins
Contributor
- Joined
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- Basic Beliefs
- Calvinistic Atheist
And many Christians feel that way too. They do not condone murderous violence against gays, however, think that gays will burn in hell.
T.G.G. Moogly
Traditional Atheist
Most of Trump's supporters feel the same way so this is not news and nor dies it distinguish this guy from your typical U.S. Christian. [thanks Jimmy]
marc
Veteran Member
Harry Bosch
Contributor
Agreed. The problem is that many Muslims and Christians believe that they are doing god's work.