Guys, don't worry . . . the Free Market is still working as intended

[ksen]

Guess How Much Money Bill Gross Made Last Year?

So how much have Pimco's top executives earned? According to documents provided to Bloomberg View by someone with knowledge of Pimco's bonus policies, the numbers break down like this: Gross earned $290 million as his year-end bonus for 2013. Mohamed El-Erian, Pimco's former chief executive officer and one-time heir apparent to Gross, received $230 million (El-Erian is a fellow Bloomberg View contributor).

pbuh

 

[Nice Squirrel]

the Free Market is still working as intended, but the links aren't

 

[ksen]

fixt!!

I think that makes me worth about $143 million.

 

[Jason Harvestdancer]

In which country is there anything like a free market?

Remember, the US is a mix of corporatism, Keynesian economics, supply-side, demand-side, monetarism, welfarism, and just a touch of socialism to round it out.

 

[ksen]

good post!

 

[coloradoatheist]

Upset that he makes a little bit more than you did? The people that need to be upset of that payment are the ones that have invested in money on the bond fund and whether or not they are happy with their fund's performance or any stock holders in PIMCO.

I would be more upset of the Marlins baseball player who is getting over $300 million to hit a small white ball.

 

[laughing dog]

In which country is there anything like a free market?

Remember, the US is a mix of corporatism, Keynesian economics, supply-side, demand-side, monetarism, welfarism, and just a touch of socialism to round it out.

Do you have any actual evidence that the Pimco's executives pay was not determined by free market forces? Because it seems a stretch to claim their compensation is due to any of the ideas you mentioned (which assumes that Keynesian economics, supply side, demand side. monetarism or welfarism are incompatible with free markets.)

 

[Underseer]

Upset that he makes a little bit more than you did? The people that need to be upset of that payment are the ones that have invested in money on the bond fund and whether or not they are happy with their fund's performance or any stock holders in PIMCO.

I would be more upset of the Marlins baseball player who is getting over $300 million to hit a small white ball.

The problem is not that they are making so much money, but that their huge salaries come at a cost of less for everyone else.

I know it's not fashionable to give a shit about the non-rich, but those inflated incomes of the aristocracy you worship mean a very large number of people (I know, they're only commoners, but they're still people) are going to be worse off.

 

[coloradoatheist]

Upset that he makes a little bit more than you did? The people that need to be upset of that payment are the ones that have invested in money on the bond fund and whether or not they are happy with their fund's performance or any stock holders in PIMCO.

I would be more upset of the Marlins baseball player who is getting over $300 million to hit a small white ball.

The problem is not that they are making so much money, but that their huge salaries come at a cost of less for everyone else.

I know it's not fashionable to give a shit about the non-rich, but those inflated incomes of the aristocracy you worship mean a very large number of people (I know, they're only commoners, but they're still people) are going to be worse off.

Huh? The people that are worse off are the ones who put money into the funds there and instead of getting some of that money in return, they gave it to him to manager their money. They are the ones who need to decide whether or not PIMCOs payment schedules is worth continuing to invest their money in their funds or move money elsewhere.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

In which country is there anything like a free market?

Remember, the US is a mix of corporatism, Keynesian economics, supply-side, demand-side, monetarism, welfarism, and just a touch of socialism to round it out.

The free market is kind of like a vacuum. You can only create one in a lab.

- - - Updated - - -

Upset that he makes a little bit more than you did? The people that need to be upset of that payment are the ones that have invested in money on the bond fund and whether or not they are happy with their fund's performance or any stock holders in PIMCO.

I would be more upset of the Marlins baseball player who is getting over $300 million to hit a small white ball.

Baseball generates billions of dollars in revenue.

 

[ksen]

The problem is not that they are making so much money, but that their huge salaries come at a cost of less for everyone else.

I know it's not fashionable to give a shit about the non-rich, but those inflated incomes of the aristocracy you worship mean a very large number of people (I know, they're only commoners, but they're still people) are going to be worse off.

Huh? The people that are worse off are the ones who put money into the funds there and instead of getting some of that money in return, they gave it to him to manager their money. They are the ones who need to decide whether or not PIMCOs payment schedules is worth continuing to invest their money in their funds or move money elsewhere.

So the extravagant bonuses for a few people don't affect the many lower level employees who don't get paid nearly as well?

 

[coloradoatheist]

The free market is kind of like a vacuum. You can only create one in a lab.

- - - Updated - - -

Upset that he makes a little bit more than you did? The people that need to be upset of that payment are the ones that have invested in money on the bond fund and whether or not they are happy with their fund's performance or any stock holders in PIMCO.

I would be more upset of the Marlins baseball player who is getting over $300 million to hit a small white ball.

Baseball generates billions of dollars in revenue.

And for PIMCO to pay those bonuses they have to bring in that much revenue to the company or more. Or is PIMCO paying it's people more than it makes?

- - - Updated - - -

Huh? The people that are worse off are the ones who put money into the funds there and instead of getting some of that money in return, they gave it to him to manager their money. They are the ones who need to decide whether or not PIMCOs payment schedules is worth continuing to invest their money in their funds or move money elsewhere.

So the extravagant bonuses for a few people don't affect the many lower level employees who don't get paid nearly as well?

If they don't believe they are making what they think they are worth, they have the ability to create their own investment firm or find a firm that will pay them better.

 

[funinspace]

In which country is there anything like a free market?

Remember, the US is a mix of corporatism, Keynesian economics, supply-side, demand-side, monetarism, welfarism, and just a touch of socialism to round it out.

Wait...where's the Voodoo?

 

[ksen]

Huh? The people that are worse off are the ones who put money into the funds there and instead of getting some of that money in return, they gave it to him to manager their money. They are the ones who need to decide whether or not PIMCOs payment schedules is worth continuing to invest their money in their funds or move money elsewhere.

So the extravagant bonuses for a few people don't affect the many lower level employees who don't get paid nearly as well?

If they don't believe they are making what they think they are worth,

I didn't say anything about the lower level employees being paid what they think they're worth. You said the extravagant bonuses only affect the investors. I asked why you thought the extravagant bonuses did not also affect the lower level employees.

they have the ability to create their own investment firm

Still a stupid retort.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

The free market is kind of like a vacuum. You can only create one in a lab.

- - - Updated - - -

Baseball generates billions of dollars in revenue.

And for PIMCO to pay those bonuses they have to bring in that much revenue to the company or more. Or is PIMCO paying it's people more than it makes?

I believe the question is, is that CEO's value to company equivalent to the pay he is receiving. CEOs typically make a fortune, almost despite the performance of a company, their performance, or any other metric.

 

[Jason Harvestdancer]

In which country is there anything like a free market?

Remember, the US is a mix of corporatism, Keynesian economics, supply-side, demand-side, monetarism, welfarism, and just a touch of socialism to round it out.

Do you have any actual evidence that the Pimco's executives pay was not determined by free market forces? Because it seems a stretch to claim their compensation is due to any of the ideas you mentioned (which assumes that Keynesian economics, supply side, demand side. monetarism or welfarism are incompatible with free markets.)

You left out corporatism (gee, why would you do that) and yes they are all not free market economic ideologies.

Unless you believe that anything less than full marxism is free market.

 

[coloradoatheist]

And for PIMCO to pay those bonuses they have to bring in that much revenue to the company or more. Or is PIMCO paying it's people more than it makes?

I believe the question is, is that CEO's value to company equivalent to the pay he is receiving. CEOs typically make a fortune, almost despite the performance of a company, their performance, or any other metric.

Yes. So they question is two fold in this case. Was he paid in stock or cash? And how much was the amount paid in terms of his funds performance compared to the competition?

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

I believe the question is, is that CEO's value to company equivalent to the pay he is receiving. CEOs typically make a fortune, almost despite the performance of a company, their performance, or any other metric.

Yes. So they question is two fold in this case. Was he paid in stock or cash? And how much was the amount paid in terms of his funds performance compared to the competition?

No, not competition, as per their actual value to the company. Saying it is competition just uses the mob mentality that, "Well, they pay their CEO this much so it is clearly morally justifiable we do the same." What is the CEO's value to the company?

 

[coloradoatheist]

Yes. So they question is two fold in this case. Was he paid in stock or cash? And how much was the amount paid in terms of his funds performance compared to the competition?

No, not competition, as per their actual value to the company. Saying it is competition just uses the mob mentality that, "Well, they pay their CEO this much so it is clearly morally justifiable we do the same." What is the CEO's value to the company?

This is a mutual fund company so the payments to the CEO and other employees come out of the administration fees of the funds. So an investor in the funds needs to decide whether or the administrative fees are worth the return they get for their money. So how does the real return of these funds compare to the returns of other funds. That is what an investor needs to decide.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

No, not competition, as per their actual value to the company. Saying it is competition just uses the mob mentality that, "Well, they pay their CEO this much so it is clearly morally justifiable we do the same." What is the CEO's value to the company?

This is a mutual fund company so the payments to the CEO and other employees come out of the administration fees of the funds. So an investor in the funds needs to decide whether or the administrative fees are worth the return they get for their money. So how does the real return of these funds compare to the returns of other funds. That is what an investor needs to decide.

I know, I know... Buyer Beware... the mantra of the Free Market Enthusiast.