Has Atheism Won?

[Jolly_Penguin]

I recall as recently as 20 years ago, and even here in progressive Canada, my being an Atheist was a bit of a shock to people I knew. I recall as recently as 5 years ago the "new atheists" it the USA still being controversial, and "debates" (if you can call them that) with Hitchens, Harris, Dawkins, etc being a hot topic. I recall gay marriage being a hot topic due to religion and Evolution vs Creationism being taken seriously and not just being a few crack pots on the creationist side. My perception recently is that being an atheist isn't so shocking anymore to most people, we have had atheist heads of state around the globe to little shock or dismay, and evangelicals voted for Trump, who couldn't name a bible passage.

Are atheists winning?

 

[rousseau]

I think you could go as far as saying that atheism is temporarily on the rise. But reason and civilization was also on the rise before the medieval era in Europe.. if you get what I mean. All it takes is a few catastrophes to throw us back to an age of darkness.

That's not to mention how Western-centric this view would be. In many parts of the world it's most certainly not on the rise.

 

[phands]

Not yet.

We've made some ground over unreason in a few countries, notable western Europe, and to a much lesser extent, the United States. Anywhere where religions are still in control - most of the world - atheism can still get you arrested and/or killed. Even in the US, recent surveys show that atheists are even more despised than muslims.

 

[steve_bank]

Over the last 20 years public Christian figures have began to sacknowledge that the constitution protects all diversity, including themselves. There has been a shift.

Over here you can not question about religion for job interviews. At least in technology talking about religion and politics in open work spaces has been discouraged. It is too volatile. Of course it is not universal.

 

[braces_for_impact]

I think we're making significant headway, but here in the U.S. at least, I think Christianity is losing as much as atheism is winning. Blatant Christian hypocrisy, combined with their hate (especially for LGBTQ) along with their entwinement into politics, has really left a bad taste in everyone's mouth.

 

[Keith&Co.]

On the other hand, no chapter of Atheism has had to close their doors because of lost participants. Just about every Christian faith in this area has atleast had to consolidate congregations.

 

[skepticalbip]

Are atheists winning?

No. The winners are those Christians and other religions who are having the burden of blind religious conformity lifted, or at least eased, from their backs.

 

[phands]

Over the last 20 years public Christian figures have began to sacknowledge that the constitution protects all diversity, including themselves. There has been a shift.

Over here you can not question about religion for job interviews. At least in technology talking about religion and politics in open work spaces has been discouraged. It is too volatile. Of course it is not universal.

Please go research Dominionism. Then go look at the make-up of the Greed over People party, and tell me atheism is winning. The worry about the establishment clause.

 

[Learner]

This may sound a bit ironic but the bible itself seems to agree this will happen at some point ie. suggests a world without Chrisitianity or a much less influence than the usual, than ever before.
(like the days of Noah idea)

 

[steve_bank]

Over the last 20 years public Christian figures have began to sacknowledge that the constitution protects all diversity, including themselves. There has been a shift.

Over here you can not question about religion for job interviews. At least in technology talking about religion and politics in open work spaces has been discouraged. It is too volatile. Of course it is not universal.

Please go research Dominionism. Then go look at the make-up of the Greed over People party, and tell me atheism is winning. The worry about the establishment clause.

If the polls are correct over the last 40 years are correct atheism is gaining a little ground. Regular church attendance has dropped. Christianity has declined, but balanced by increase in Christian alternatives.

The poll questions are general. Do you believe in a deity or a guiding spirit and so on. Identifying as religious vs atheist becomes fuzzy.

Never heard of that one, I expect there are a few wacky atheist groups out there as well. Have you read Thomas Paine's Common Sense? After the revolution some wanted a theocracy. Most colonies with one or two exceptions had state religions and clerics funded by govt. It was years adtyer COTUS was ratifued before all states compiled. There was plenty of debate on religion before the revolution.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Paine#Religious_views

Before his arrest and imprisonment in France, knowing that he would probably be arrested and executed, following in the tradition of early eighteenth-century British deism Paine wrote the first part of The Age of Reason, an assault on organized "revealed" religion combining a compilation of the many inconsistencies he found in the Bible.[citation needed]

About his own religious beliefs, Paine wrote in The Age of Reason:

I believe in one God, and no more; and I hope for happiness beyond this life.



I do not believe in the creed professed by the Jewish church, by the Roman church, by the Greek church, by the Turkish church, by the Protestant church, nor by any church that I know of. My own mind is my own church. All national institutions of churches, whether Jewish, Christian or Turkish, appear to me no other than human inventions, set up to terrify and enslave mankind, and monopolize power and profit.

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

Don't know about other atheists but I've certainly won. Could not have said that a generation ago.

 

[Underseer]

I recall as recently as 20 years ago, and even here in progressive Canada, my being an Atheist was a bit of a shock to people I knew. I recall as recently as 5 years ago the "new atheists" it the USA still being controversial, and "debates" (if you can call them that) with Hitchens, Harris, Dawkins, etc being a hot topic. I recall gay marriage being a hot topic due to religion and Evolution vs Creationism being taken seriously and not just being a few crack pots on the creationist side. My perception recently is that being an atheist isn't so shocking anymore to most people, we have had atheist heads of state around the globe to little shock or dismay, and evangelicals voted for Trump, who couldn't name a bible passage.

Are atheists winning?

Yes, we are winning, but don't start cheering yet.

Years back, NPR interviewed a guy who studies tipping points for a living, and he said that the Western industrialized world had already passed the tipping point for the collapse of religion in the West. The only question is how long will it take. How long?

There are still people who worship Odin and Zeus. The Wiccan religion was resurrected despite the fact that doing so required making a lot of shit up. If those old pagan religions are still holding on, we know that Christianity and Islam (both of which have strong proselytizing mandates) are going to take a long time to go away.

 

[DrZoidberg]

I think theism is pretty much dead today. Even the religious today use scientific/secular language when talking about their God. The Intelligent design concept would have been fully alien to the Christian way of thinking 200 years ago.

The last 100 years God has gradually been reduced from the Great Mystery to some sort of Santa Claus or super daddy. The current mainstream idea of God is so incredibly childish. I can't see how that can survive for long.

Don't get me wrong. There's plenty of intelligent Christians who still use God as the Great Mystery. But those will never be in the majority.

But I don't think God will disappear. God will just be reformulated to fit secular ideas and ideals. God will be compatible with atheism if you will.

I have two atheist friends who just converted to Christianity. They're still as much atheist as ever.

I've worked with loads of Hindus who's faith is important to them. Still atheist. I know several Muslims who are the same.

Yes, atheism won. God is dead. And our world we have today is what that looks like

 

[rousseau]

Just ignore those pesky Africans:

Oh, and Middle Easterners:

Atheism may be the default in the Scandinavian countries, but that represents a small part of the global population.

 

[phands]

I have two atheist friends who just converted to Christianity. They're still as much atheist as ever.

Then they're either not xtians or they're not atheists.

Yes, atheism won. God is dead. And our world we have today is what that looks like

I wish and I wish, but sadly, you're wrong.

Firstly, atheists are a tiny fraction of the population, and in many countries are subject to the death penalty. Hardly a win.
Secondly. there is no god to die.
Thirdly, the awful way the world is today is almost entirely due to religion.

 

[DrZoidberg]

I have two atheist friends who just converted to Christianity. They're still as much atheist as ever.

Then they're either not xtians or they're not atheists.

I don't share their beliefs. But I think they are as genuine Christians as the rest of them. Why should your definition be more important than theirs? Or mine?

They identify as Christian and do the whole thing. They just read any reference to God as a metaphor. They even attend a Bible study group for people like them. There's apparently a whole movement of Christians like this.

Yes, atheism won. God is dead. And our world we have today is what that looks like

I wish and I wish, but sadly, you're wrong.

Firstly, atheists are a tiny fraction of the population, and in many countries are subject to the death penalty. Hardly a win.
Secondly. there is no god to die.
Thirdly, the awful way the world is today is almost entirely due to religion.

Just based on behaviour Christians today, thry behave as if God exists to validate whatever idiotic notion they have. The Bible isn't used as a guide to help the Christians grow. In order for spiritual growth to occur you need to make an effort... put in the time. Christians today have no time for that shit. A culture geared toward instant gratification and gaining status through consumption is something... But religious it is not. We (The west) have an almost entirely atheistic and nihilistic culture.

Belief in God today as been reduced to an empty phrase people say. With no cost attached. That's a godless existence.

In the Battle for God Karen Armstrong made a convincing case that fundamentalists have lost their faith already. They just haven't admitted it to themselves yet. The blind fanaticism is just a method by which to convince themselves of the truth of God. But they don't believe it. The fundamentalists are the religious with the weakest faith.

Some of us atheists are just more honest about our atheism. Anyhoo... That's what I believe

 

[Juma]

I don't share their beliefs. But I think they are as genuine Christians as the rest of them. Why should your definition be more important than theirs? Or mine?

They identify as Christian and do the whole thing. They just read any reference to God as a metaphor. They even attend a Bible study group for people like them. There's apparently a whole movement of Christians like this.

Yes, atheism won. God is dead. And our world we have today is what that looks like

I wish and I wish, but sadly, you're wrong.

Firstly, atheists are a tiny fraction of the population, and in many countries are subject to the death penalty. Hardly a win.
Secondly. there is no god to die.
Thirdly, the awful way the world is today is almost entirely due to religion.

Just based on behaviour Christians today, thry behave as if God exists to validate whatever idiotic notion they have. The Bible isn't used as a guide to help the Christians grow. In order for spiritual growth to occur you need to make an effort... put in the time. Christians today have no time for that shit. A culture geared toward instant gratification and gaining status through consumption is something... But religious it is not. We (The west) have an almost entirely atheistic and nihilistic culture.

Belief in God today as been reduced to an empty phrase people say. With no cost attached. That's a godless existence.

In the Battle for God Karen Armstrong made a convincing case that fundamentalists have lost their faith already. They just haven't admitted it to themselves yet. The blind fanaticism is just a method by which to convince themselves of the truth of God. But they don't believe it. The fundamentalists are the religious with the weakest faith.

Some of us atheists are just more honest about our atheism. Anyhoo... That's what I believe

They can redefine ”christian” as much as they want but i dont know of any major church that doesnt believe in the resurrection if jesus and that jesus was the son of God. If you dont believe in that you are not christian.

Maybe you mean something else by ”being a christian”?

 

[phands]

In the Battle for God Karen Armstrong made a convincing case that fundamentalists have lost their faith already. They just haven't admitted it to themselves yet. The blind fanaticism is just a method by which to convince themselves of the truth of God. But they don't believe it. The fundamentalists are the religious with the weakest faith.

I love that quote, and am going to get and read that book! Thanks.

 

[Jobar]

From 2010- Fading Faith

Philosopher-historian Will Durant called it "the basic event of modern times." He didn't mean the world wars, or the end of colonialism, or the rise of electronics. He was talking about the decline of religion in Western democracies.

The great mentor saw subsiding faith as the most profound occurrence of the past century -- a shift of Western civilization, rather like former transitions away from the age of kings, the era of slavery and such epochs.

Since World War II, worship has dwindled starkly in Europe, Canada, Australia, Japan and other advanced democracies. In those busy places, only 5 or 10 percent of adults now attend church. Secular society scurries along heedlessly.

That old thread is worth reading in its entirety. Another worthwhile read, from the Pew Research Center in 2015- Rise of the Nones.

When I first started calling myself an atheist at 15, although I knew of many famous writers, philosophers, scientists, and artists who were atheists, it was many years before I met another open unbeliever in person. In fact I soon learned to keep my lack of religious faith quiet; I was never assaulted physically over it, but I was cursed and shunned a number of times, and lost what I had thought were friends. I even lost the first job I had after graduating college from it.

It's somewhat better nowadays- though there's still quite a ways to go before I'd be willing to say open atheists are reasonably well accepted in American society.

 

[Lion IRC]

In the Battle for God Karen Armstrong made a convincing case that fundamentalists have lost their faith already. They just haven't admitted it to themselves yet. The blind fanaticism is just a method by which to convince themselves of the truth of God. But they don't believe it. The fundamentalists are the religious with the weakest faith.

I love that quote, and am going to get and read that book! Thanks.

Yes, it's a fantastic way to 'win' any argument when you can simply assert that your opponent hasn't "admitted" to themselves that they are wrong. Or that they don't really believe what they say they believe.

Not surprised phands loves that quote.