Has Religion Brainwashed even Atheists?

[Ramaraksha]

We all know religious people have been brainwashed by their religions, but is there evidence that even Atheists have been brainwashed? To me the answer is yes and i base it on the lack of questions that atheists do not pose

1. Heaven is a metaphor for the womb, the nest, the past, Childhood - yet no psychologist, not even Atheist ones, have made this connection
2. Why are our laws so much better than God's?
3. Why don't we look for rational explanations to religions?
4. Addendum to the above - religions born when Kings ruled - doesn't the popular view of God remind you of someone? Someone who demands loyalty(belief), will reward "his" people, and the disloyal get punished? Notice the Terminology - Commandments, submit, beg, mercy, judge, wrath, Fear - all Master/Slave words
5.When ISIS separated people based on religion and tortured and killed christians, many wrote articles saying ISIS was evil. Hitler did the same, he too separated people by religion - condemned them for it. Hitler too is evil. And yet religions have been preaching the same for over 2,000 years now and yet i have yet to hear anyone protest
6. As they say if it sounds too good to be true, it probably is? Doesn't anyone think Heaven sounds a bit too good to be true? A Sugar Daddy God who will keep everyone in nice comfort for eternity? Is it not a fantasy?
7. The religious disconnect - if we see someone on the street yelling he is going to kill his kids, we would call the cops and have him locked up - put the same guy in a holy book.....
8. The constant use of threats all the while talking about love
9. God plays judge and jury - the victim is missing - anyone see anything wrong with this "justice"? Just cry a few croc tears of remorse and you are good?
10. How whenever we read about religious discrimination - we keep hearing the same things - "one must not judge people by religion, underneath we are all the same, with families and loved ones, hopes and desires etc etc" and yet Atheists are discriminated right here in the USA. Minorities are abused in ALL islamic countries, yet few write about it

 

[Tom Sawyer]

Ok, which of those questions don't you feel atheists have asked? The all seem like fairly common topics of conversation from an atheistic point of view.

 

[bilby]

We all know religious people have been brainwashed by their religions, but is there evidence that even Atheists have been brainwashed? To me the answer is yes and i base it on the lack of questions that atheists do not pose

1. Heaven is a metaphor for the womb, the nest, the past, Childhood - yet no psychologist, not even Atheist ones, have made this connection

How do you know this? It's a possible interpretation, but only one of many, and not one that is particularly plausible nor particularly useful. Just because people don't focus on your choice of minutiae, that's not an indication that they are brainwashed.

2. Why are our laws so much better than God's?

That's not a question an atheist could reasonably ask - to an atheist, there are no gods, and therefore no 'God's Laws' against which our laws could be compared.

3. Why don't we look for rational explanations to religions?

Because rational explanations cannot be based on false premises.

4. Addendum to the above - religions born when Kings ruled - doesn't the popular view of God remind you of someone? Someone who demands loyalty(belief), will reward "his" people, and the disloyal get punished? Notice the Terminology - Commandments, submit, beg, mercy, judge, wrath, Fear - all Master/Slave words

Yes. So? What makes you think that atheists are unaware of this? Many - perhaps most - already know this; So what? What would you have them do? What makes you think they don't know this?

5.When ISIS separated people based on religion and tortured and killed christians, many wrote articles saying ISIS was evil. Hitler did the same, he too separated people by religion - condemned them for it. Hitler too is evil. And yet religions have been preaching the same for over 2,000 years now and yet i have yet to hear anyone protest

Then you need to listen more. People protest about this constantly.

6. As they say if it sounds too good to be true, it probably is? Doesn't anyone think Heaven sounds a bit too good to be true? A Sugar Daddy God who will keep everyone in nice comfort for eternity? Is it not a fantasy?

As far as I am aware, almost every atheist thinks heaven is a fantasy. There is no evidence at all that they are brainwashed into thinking that heaven is real.

7. The religious disconnect - if we see someone on the street yelling he is going to kill his kids, we would call the cops and have him locked up - put the same guy in a holy book.....

The cops obey the government; the government makes laws according to what will get them elected; and the people are largely religious - certainly they were at the time the laws were made. I, and many people I know, would like to see the laws changed to stop the excessive tolerance for bad behaviour in the name of religion - but right now, we are outnumbered. What would you have us do? Is our pragmatism in realizing that change will be gradual an indication of brainwashing, or just realism?

8. The constant use of threats all the while talking about love

I don't know of any atheists who have been brainwahsed into doing this.

9. God plays judge and jury - the victim is missing - anyone see anything wrong with this "justice"? Just cry a few croc tears of remorse and you are good?

Again, Atheists pose this question all the time. Perhaps you need to get out more?

10. How whenever we read about religious discrimination - we keep hearing the same things - "one must not judge people by religion, underneath we are all the same, with families and loved ones, hopes and desires etc etc" and yet Atheists are discriminated right here in the USA. Minorities are abused in ALL islamic countries, yet few write about it

Being rightly fearful of violence is NOT the same thing as being brainwashed.

Speaking out against religion is, in many places, a dangerous thing to do - and yet some brave people do it anyway.

 

[Keith&Co.]

6. As they say if it sounds too good to be true, it probably is? Doesn't anyone think Heaven sounds a bit too good to be true? A Sugar Daddy God who will keep everyone in nice comfort for eternity? Is it not a fantasy?

As far as I am aware, almost every atheist thinks heaven is a fantasy. There is no evidence at all that they are brainwashed into thinking that heaven is real.

When i was eight, they were telling me about how the streets of Heaven were gold and how we'd be given buckets of jewels just for the asking.
"But last week, you told us that Heaven was beyond all Earthly concerns, didn't you? Why would we care about gold and jewels if wealth is just something that happened to us back on Earth? And you said that rich people don't get into Heaven too easy, so we can be content with being poor, but why then are we going to be Rich in Heaven?"

And that wasn't even as an atheist. I have since left the Church and left Christainity and left Theism, at least partially because no one seems to have a decent answer for why we get meaningless rewards in an afterlife that's nothing like life here...

 

[bilby]

As far as I am aware, almost every atheist thinks heaven is a fantasy. There is no evidence at all that they are brainwashed into thinking that heaven is real.

When i was eight, they were telling me about how the streets of Heaven were gold and how we'd be given buckets of jewels just for the asking.
"But last week, you told us that Heaven was beyond all Earthly concerns, didn't you? Why would we care about gold and jewels if wealth is just something that happened to us back on Earth? And you said that rich people don't get into Heaven too easy, so we can be content with being poor, but why then are we going to be Rich in Heaven?"

And that wasn't even as an atheist. I have since left the Church and left Christainity and left Theism, at least partially because no one seems to have a decent answer for why we get meaningless rewards in an afterlife that's nothing like life here...

The Spanish Conquistadors got burned by that one - they brought so much gold back to Spain that the Spanish economy almost collapsed due to the massive inflation.

Gold and jewels are only valuable because they are scarce. If everyone can have buckets of jewels free of charge, then what would they want them for? I mean, diamonds would make a nice durable aggregate for a concrete roadway I suppose, and gold could be useful for plumbing and roof flashings; But those don't seem like the sorts of things one might need to care much about in heaven.

 

[Bronzeage]

Brainwashing is a metaphor. No ever washed a brain, outside of a coroner's lab.

What exactly does the metaphor "brainwashing" mean, in literal context?

 

[zorq]

I agree with Tom Sawyer. All of those questions known and are asked by atheists when discussing religion with theists. Some of them much more often than others. (because some of them are just not very fruitful)

Maybe Ramaraksha associates with a different circle of atheists.

 

[Keith&Co.]

Brainwashing is a metaphor. No ever washed a brain, outside of a coroner's lab.

What exactly does the metaphor "brainwashing" mean, in literal context?

Well, it's been a long time since i wiped a magnetic disk for reals, too. And when i did, it was for dust not data. But we <eagle claws>wipe<down claws> computer memory all the time.

Come to think of it, the last time i wiped a computer memory disk was about the last time i dialed a phone.

 

[BH]

As far as I am aware, almost every atheist thinks heaven is a fantasy. There is no evidence at all that they are brainwashed into thinking that heaven is real.

When i was eight, they were telling me about how the streets of Heaven were gold and how we'd be given buckets of jewels just for the asking.
"But last week, you told us that Heaven was beyond all Earthly concerns, didn't you? Why would we care about gold and jewels if wealth is just something that happened to us back on Earth? And you said that rich people don't get into Heaven too easy, so we can be content with being poor, but why then are we going to be Rich in Heaven?"

And that wasn't even as an atheist. I have since left the Church and left Christainity and left Theism, at least partially because no one seems to have a decent answer for why we get meaningless rewards in an afterlife that's nothing like life here...

There was a man who was very good and it was his time to die. So God sends the angel of death down to pick him up. The Angel of Death appears to the man and says "Congratulations, God is pleased with you so it is time for you to die and come be with him forever and ever in eternal bliss!"

But instead of being happy and excited like most people who are "saved" are when the Angel of Death appears, he gets a sad face.

The Angel of Death does not know what to do so he flies back up to God and tells him what happened. God then tells the A.o.D. that he has to come, it is his time, but he,God, does not want anyone coming with any sadness. So, God tells the A.o.D to tell he man he can bring one thing from earth to heaven with him to make him happy.

And it is done. The man asks for five minutes to get what he wants and comes back to the angel with a suitcase stuffed with something The man dies and goes to heaven and gets the grand tour. Jesus and Peter and Moses show him around the place. The guy ends up getting a mansion on the same street Billy Graham, Pope Sylvester, and Corrie Ten Boom live on. After getting the grand tour all the angels gather around the man and ask him to show them what he brought in his suitcase. He gladly opens it up and shows them a bunch of gold he brought.

The angels look bewildered but remain kind and polite.

After the angels fly away to go sing praises to God he asks the Angel of Death, who is his best friend now, why the angels looked at him so weird. The angel said "They were confused because they did not understand why anyone would want to bring pavement up here to heaven".

Ba ding!

 

[braces_for_impact]

As far as I am aware, almost every atheist thinks heaven is a fantasy. There is no evidence at all that they are brainwashed into thinking that heaven is real.

When i was eight, they were telling me about how the streets of Heaven were gold and how we'd be given buckets of jewels just for the asking.
"But last week, you told us that Heaven was beyond all Earthly concerns, didn't you? Why would we care about gold and jewels if wealth is just something that happened to us back on Earth? And you said that rich people don't get into Heaven too easy, so we can be content with being poor, but why then are we going to be Rich in Heaven?"

And that wasn't even as an atheist. I have since left the Church and left Christainity and left Theism, at least partially because no one seems to have a decent answer for why we get meaningless rewards in an afterlife that's nothing like life here...

This reminds me of the 72 virgins thing. This isn't motivating in my view. Who wants 72 virgins? How about 72 hawt women that know what the fuck they're doing. Much more preferable.

 

[braces_for_impact]

People are already discussing some of the OP specifics. I do think some atheists are relatively unaware of their own biases towards religion. Especially where religious privileged is concerned. I.E. Separation of church/state issues, and religion providing a moral/ethical framework.

 

[Keith&Co.]

his reminds me of the 72 virgins thing. This isn't motivating in my view. Who wants 72 virgins? How about 72 hawt women that know what the fuck they're doing. Much more preferable.

The guy that wrong the Eiger Sanction wrote, in another book, that Arabic men want virgins because they can't stand the idea of being compared to other men. And the reason for this is that they can't stand up in comparison to other men...

I can kinda see not wanting to spend eternity being told 'That's not how your father did it' or 'if you're stretching this out for my sake, go ahead and let yourself finish' or 'Yeah, Sean Connery did it like this when he was drunk, too.'

 

[Bronzeage]

When i was eight, they were telling me about how the streets of Heaven were gold and how we'd be given buckets of jewels just for the asking.
"But last week, you told us that Heaven was beyond all Earthly concerns, didn't you? Why would we care about gold and jewels if wealth is just something that happened to us back on Earth? And you said that rich people don't get into Heaven too easy, so we can be content with being poor, but why then are we going to be Rich in Heaven?"

And that wasn't even as an atheist. I have since left the Church and left Christainity and left Theism, at least partially because no one seems to have a decent answer for why we get meaningless rewards in an afterlife that's nothing like life here...

This reminds me of the 72 virgins thing. This isn't motivating in my view. Who wants 72 virgins? How about 72 hawt women that know what the fuck they're doing. Much more preferable.

The 72 virgins was just a sales pitch, created to appeal to the customer base at hand. You will receive 72 former virgins who have gained a bit of experience in the process.

 

[braces_for_impact]

his reminds me of the 72 virgins thing. This isn't motivating in my view. Who wants 72 virgins? How about 72 hawt women that know what the fuck they're doing. Much more preferable.

The guy that wrong the Eiger Sanction wrote, in another book, that Arabic men want virgins because they can't stand the idea of being compared to other men. And the reason for this is that they can't stand up in comparison to other men...

I can kinda see not wanting to spend eternity being told 'That's not how your father did it' or 'if you're stretching this out for my sake, go ahead and let yourself finish' or 'Yeah, Sean Connery did it like this when he was drunk, too.'

Well yeah, it seemed to me that insecurity was at the root of it, after all, if you have to hie women in cloth bags how secure can you be around them?

 

[ronburgundy]

People are already discussing some of the OP specifics. I do think some atheists are relatively unaware of their own biases towards religion. Especially where religious privileged is concerned. I.E. Separation of church/state issues, and religion providing a moral/ethical framework.

Are you referring to atheist who still hold the implicit pro-religion assumptions that religion is good/required for morality or that blind them to the countless ways our government favors religion over non-religion (and therefore specific religions over others since there is no objective category of "religion")?

I agree with that. I see far more atheists who unwittingly hold these pro-religion assumptions and give immoral acts a free pass when done in the name of religion, then I do see atheists who have an unexamined negative bias toward religion. The pro religion bias is so pervasive in every aspect of culture that it is very hard to purge oneself of these implicitly learned notions. The atheist with a stronger negative view of religion tend not to have been socialized into that view, but rather fought hard to apply critical thinking to rid themselves of the pro religious bias they were socialized into.

Also, for many atheists, they still have strong social/emotional or even economic ties to religious people. So, they have biased motives to want to "play nice" and not challenge religion except in its most glaringly dangerous forms. These are the atheists fine who defend "moderate" religion and pretend that their are not inherent dangers to relgion and it causes no harm, but only become dangerous when "abused" by fundamentalists.

 

[skepticalbip]

People are already discussing some of the OP specifics. I do think some atheists are relatively unaware of their own biases towards religion. Especially where religious privileged is concerned. I.E. Separation of church/state issues, and religion providing a moral/ethical framework.

Separation of church/state does not come from religion but from fear of what religion can do if it gets political power. The religious would like nothing more than to mix their religion with government, they constantly try to. Moral/ethical frameworks come from society and all evidence is that religions change their beliefs (though way too slowly) to comply with moral/ethical ideals that society generated.

 

[OLDMAN]

When i was eight, they were telling me about how the streets of Heaven were gold and how we'd be given buckets of jewels just for the asking.
"But last week, you told us that Heaven was beyond all Earthly concerns, didn't you? Why would we care about gold and jewels if wealth is just something that happened to us back on Earth? And you said that rich people don't get into Heaven too easy, so we can be content with being poor, but why then are we going to be Rich in Heaven?"

And that wasn't even as an atheist. I have since left the Church and left Christainity and left Theism, at least partially because no one seems to have a decent answer for why we get meaningless rewards in an afterlife that's nothing like life here...

This reminds me of the 72 virgins thing. This isn't motivating in my view. Who wants 72 virgins? How about 72 hawt women that know what the fuck they're doing. Much more preferable.

My wife wants to know why getting prematurely ejaculated on by 72 virgins would be an incentive for her to want to go to heaven?

 

[Ramaraksha]

You took things so literally
1. I would have thought some psychologists, at least the Atheist ones, would have jumped on this connection a long time ago. The silence bothers me
2. This is where you took the words so literally - our laws are so much better than "God's", because these so-called "God's Laws" were man-made. Made by simple people living a few thousand years ago
3. See above - that's what i mean - a rational explanations to why so-called "God's Laws" are so primitive
4. Again see above - religious ideas were born when times were different - they simply made use of the most powerful man in their day - the King
5. Can you give me some examples? Not just stuff like "Religions are bad, they threaten people etc" - but articles or letters that asked why ISIS or Hitler was evil whereas religions get a free pass?
7. I was talking about Abraham - apparently he was almost ready to kill his own son because a voice in his head told him to

Basically i would love to see an Atheist say something on TV or even on YouTube - can you give me an example of an Atheist on Youtube doing so? Raising the points that i have raised?

 

[Ramaraksha]

Ok, which of those questions don't you feel atheists have asked? The all seem like fairly common topics of conversation from an atheistic point of view.

Well i do watch a fair amount of TV and have never seen an Atheist raise what i am asking about? How about the print world? Can you give me an example of an article or editorial, i will take even in an Atheist site. Or how about YouTube? Can you find me an Atheist video talking about what i have posted?

 

[Ramaraksha]

As far as I am aware, almost every atheist thinks heaven is a fantasy. There is no evidence at all that they are brainwashed into thinking that heaven is real.

When i was eight, they were telling me about how the streets of Heaven were gold and how we'd be given buckets of jewels just for the asking.
"But last week, you told us that Heaven was beyond all Earthly concerns, didn't you? Why would we care about gold and jewels if wealth is just something that happened to us back on Earth? And you said that rich people don't get into Heaven too easy, so we can be content with being poor, but why then are we going to be Rich in Heaven?"

And that wasn't even as an atheist. I have since left the Church and left Christainity and left Theism, at least partially because no one seems to have a decent answer for why we get meaningless rewards in an afterlife that's nothing like life here...

The most disappointing thing was to me to read such stuff in a Buddhist book - so and so heavens roads were pure gold etc. Here is a book talking about how one should eschew life's goodies and then talking about how one will get all the pleasures of life!
Sadly, it seems that people do want pleasures of life but they just don't want to work for it - in heaven of course, all that stuff will be just handed over - no need to work for it - Heaven is for the weak and the lazy