Hate begets Hate: "Scholar" says Palestinian civilians are legimate targets because they voted in Hamas

[Sabine Grant]

It's a matter of the author arguing that because someone voted for Hamas, it's legitimate to murder their children.

Note that there are many other factors besides simply voting for Hamas.

If you paid attention to the entire context of his diatribe, he is attempting to justify and rationalize the harming and killing of specific groups of civilians in the Gaza by Israeli forces based on those groups having supported Hamas.To include children of Hamas loyal parents killed or wounded by Israeli forces. The simple fact those children have Hamas loyal parents makes them legitimate civilian targets to be wounded and/or killed by the Israeli forces.He condones their killing or/and wounding SOLELY based on their being children of Hamas loyal parents and no matter what their age is.

If one could conceive that an adolescent announcing his intention to be a suicide bomber is a threat, there is NO possible rationally centered reasoning to support the belief that all children of Hamas loyal parents are a threat to be eliminated by designating them as legitimate civilian targets to be wounded or killed by the Israeli forces. Only a mind advocating a genocide of all generations would speak the way that man did.

As to "removing children from harm's way" : are you kidding? There is nowhere in the Gaza where children can be safe by being "removed from harm's way". They are all stuck into an open air jail with nowhere outside of that hell hole to go to. There are not safe even in a UN shelter.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

And I suppose you think a mouse and an elephant are the same thing since they're both mammals.

You didn't answer the question. If we use your reasoning then the people responsible for the kidnapping and murder of the 3 yeshiva students are their parents. They chose to bring their sons into a war zone. They chose Netanyahu and the Likud Party to be their leaders. It's their fault their boys died because of the choices they made, right?

If not, then there's something wrong with your reasoning.

You're comparing two very different things.

The teens went to an event in the West Bank during a time of basically peace.

The kids in Gaza are sitting on top of weapons during times of active war.

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Note that there are many other factors besides simply voting for Hamas.

If you paid attention to the entire context of his diatribe, he is attempting to justify and rationalize the harming and killing of specific groups of civilians in the Gaza by Israeli forces based on those groups having supported Hamas.To include children of Hamas loyal parents killed or wounded by Israeli forces. The simple fact those children have Hamas loyal parents makes them legitimate civilian targets to be wounded and/or killed by the Israeli forces.He condones their killing or/and wounding SOLELY based on their being children of Hamas loyal parents and no matter what their age is.

If one could conceive that an adolescent announcing his intention to be a suicide bomber is a threat, there is NO possible rationally centered reasoning to support the belief that all children of Hamas loyal parents are a threat to be eliminated by designating them as legitimate civilian targets to be wounded or killed by the Israeli forces. Only a mind advocating a genocide of all generations would speak the way that man did.

As to "removing children from harm's way" : are you kidding? There is nowhere in the Gaza where children can be safe by being "removed from harm's way". They are all stuck into an open air jail with nowhere outside of that hell hole to go to. There are not safe even in a UN shelter.

You're focusing on the voting when that was simply one of many things he listed.

 

[Sabine Grant]

You didn't answer the question. If we use your reasoning then the people responsible for the kidnapping and murder of the 3 yeshiva students are their parents. They chose to bring their sons into a war zone. They chose Netanyahu and the Likud Party to be their leaders. It's their fault their boys died because of the choices they made, right?

If not, then there's something wrong with your reasoning.

You're comparing two very different things.

The teens went to an event in the West Bank during a time of basically peace.

The kids in Gaza are sitting on top of weapons during times of active war.

- - - Updated - - -

Note that there are many other factors besides simply voting for Hamas.

If you paid attention to the entire context of his diatribe, he is attempting to justify and rationalize the harming and killing of specific groups of civilians in the Gaza by Israeli forces based on those groups having supported Hamas.To include children of Hamas loyal parents killed or wounded by Israeli forces. The simple fact those children have Hamas loyal parents makes them legitimate civilian targets to be wounded and/or killed by the Israeli forces.He condones their killing or/and wounding SOLELY based on their being children of Hamas loyal parents and no matter what their age is.

If one could conceive that an adolescent announcing his intention to be a suicide bomber is a threat, there is NO possible rationally centered reasoning to support the belief that all children of Hamas loyal parents are a threat to be eliminated by designating them as legitimate civilian targets to be wounded or killed by the Israeli forces. Only a mind advocating a genocide of all generations would speak the way that man did.

As to "removing children from harm's way" : are you kidding? There is nowhere in the Gaza where children can be safe by being "removed from harm's way". They are all stuck into an open air jail with nowhere outside of that hell hole to go to. There are not safe even in a UN shelter.

You're focusing on the voting when that was simply one of many things he listed.

Non. I am focusing on what he stated and I quoted it. It is clear that only children of non Hamas loyal parents are considered innocent victims. The others are to be SOL and again based SOLELY on their parents being Hamas loyal.Again, this is about genocide of all generations to include children of any age.

AND AGAIN, no child is safe in the Gaza strip whether their parents attempt to remove them from harm's way. It should be clear to you by now that the population density in the Gaza and undeniable reality that the Gaza is an open air prison from where no one can escape from, both factors combined make it impossible for any child to be "removed from harm's way".

Straight question necessitating a straight answer without you beating around the bush : do you support the belief that children of any age of Hamas loyal parents are to be a civilian legitimate and justified target to be wounded or/and killed by the IDF?

 

[Shadowy Man]

Straight question necessitating a straight answer without you beating around the bush : do you support the belief that children of any age of Hamas loyal parents are to be a civilian legitimate and justified target to be wounded or/and killed by the IDF?

Since Loren already said that it is ok to shoot through a baby to get to a terrorist shooting at you, it's now a matter of whether he considers someone who supports a terrorist and lets him use his house for storing weapons is no different than the terrorist himself.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Non. I am focusing on what he stated and I quoted it. It is clear that only children of non Hamas loyal parents are considered innocent victims. The others are to be SOL and again based SOLELY on their parents being Hamas loyal.Again, this is about genocide of all generations to include children of any age.

He listed many things that blur the lines. The voting was only one of them but it is relevant--they chose the path of war in a situation they perfectly well knew would cause civilian casualties in their population. Thus Hamas voters chose to put their children at risk.

AND AGAIN, no child is safe in the Gaza strip whether their parents attempt to remove them from harm's way. It should be clear to you by now that the population density in the Gaza and undeniable reality that the Gaza is an open air prison from where no one can escape from, both factors combined make it impossible for any child to be "removed from harm's way".

Most of Gaza isn't being hit. I do agree that it's effectively impossible to get away---but that's because Hamas goes out of their way to put the children in danger.

Straight question necessitating a straight answer without you beating around the bush : do you support the belief that children of any age of Hamas loyal parents are to be a civilian legitimate and justified target to be wounded or/and killed by the IDF?

And have you stopped beating your husband?


Non-combatants are never a justified target. That's not the same thing as saying that collateral damage is unacceptable, though. Israel bends over backwards to minimize civilian casualties, Hamas bends over backwards to cause them--or even better, foreign casualties. They just slipped up on their censorship and fired rockets from very near reporters--while at least two reporters were doing live broadcasts so they couldn't just not talk about it like usual.

 

[laughing dog]

He listed many things that blur the lines.

No, he didn't.

The voting was only one of them but it is relevant--they chose the path of war in a situation they perfectly well knew would cause civilian casualties in their population. Thus Hamas voters chose to put their children at risk.

You need to have someone read the piece to you - he wrote "Palestinians" not Hamas voters. Why do you keep trying to deflect from the issue.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

No, he didn't.

The voting was only one of them but it is relevant--they chose the path of war in a situation they perfectly well knew would cause civilian casualties in their population. Thus Hamas voters chose to put their children at risk.

You need to have someone read the piece to you - he wrote "Palestinians" not Hamas voters. Why do you keep trying to deflect from the issue.

I read his piece. He's listing many factors and he specifically recognizes that those who aren't supporting Hamas are the real victims here.

 

[Sabine Grant]

No, he didn't.
You need to have someone read the piece to you - he wrote "Palestinians" not Hamas voters. Why do you keep trying to deflect from the issue.

I read his piece. He's listing many factors and he specifically recognizes that those who aren't supporting Hamas are the real victims here.

Still going back to the same issue that he does NOT recognize children of parents loyal to Hamas as victims. He left them out of the categories of civilian victims whose death or wounding we should deplore. Contrary to you I regard them all as VICTIMS whose death or harm we should deplore. Only a twisted mind like the author's would attempt to outcast from the terms "real victims" and "civilians" children based on what their parents have been up to. It is NOT the choice of a child to be stuck in a household which may or may not provide support to Hamas. Like it or not, they are INNOCENT and every killed or wounded child should awake our conscience rather than engaging in mental gymnastics to dismiss them as not being "real victims" based on their parents.

 

[untermensche]

It's perfectly possible to support Hamas and not support the firing of rockets.

Just as many support the right of Israel to exist but don't support it's apartheid policies.

 

[Jayjay]

It's perfectly possible to support Hamas and not support the firing of rockets.

Just as many support the right of Israel to exist but don't support it's apartheid policies.

Why the fuck would anyone support Hamas if not for the rockets? What else do they do? The rockets and the suicide bombers and the kidnappings are Hamas' raison d'etre.

 

[untermensche]

It's perfectly possible to support Hamas and not support the firing of rockets.

Just as many support the right of Israel to exist but don't support it's apartheid policies.

Why the fuck would anyone support Hamas if not for the rockets? What else do they do? The rockets and the suicide bombers and the kidnappings are Hamas' raison d'etre.

Are you joking?

Hamas does a great deal of humanitarian work. That is why they are supported.

 

[Harry Bosch]

It's perfectly possible to support Hamas and not support the firing of rockets.

Just as many support the right of Israel to exist but don't support it's apartheid policies.

Wow. I can understand supporting the Palestinians (I support them!). But to favor the Hamas death cult is odd. They will kill far more arabs than Israelis. They are anti science, anti women, anti gay, anti arts, anti sports, and anti society. They are the primary reason why there is no current Palestinian state. IMO, their only value is for target practice.

 

[untermensche]

It's perfectly possible to support Hamas and not support the firing of rockets.

Just as many support the right of Israel to exist but don't support it's apartheid policies.

Wow. I can understand supporting the Palestinians (I support them!). But to favor the Hamas death cult is odd. They will kill far more arabs than Israelis. They are anti science, anti women, anti gay, anti arts, anti sports, and anti society. They are the primary reason why there is no current Palestinian state. IMO, their only value is for target practice.

Hamas provides a lot of humanitarian aid to the people of Gaza.

It is very easy for the people of Gaza, living under the Israeli boot for decades, to support Hamas.

Expecting anything else is to live in a fantasy world.

 

[Harry Bosch]

Wow. I can understand supporting the Palestinians (I support them!). But to favor the Hamas death cult is odd. They will kill far more arabs than Israelis. They are anti science, anti women, anti gay, anti arts, anti sports, and anti society. They are the primary reason why there is no current Palestinian state. IMO, their only value is for target practice.

Hamas provides a lot of humanitarian aid to the people of Gaza.

It is very easy for the people of Gaza, living under the Israeli boot for decades, to support Hamas.

Expecting anything else is to live in a fantasy world.

What humanitarian aid do they provide??

 

[untermensche]

Hamas provides a lot of humanitarian aid to the people of Gaza.

It is very easy for the people of Gaza, living under the Israeli boot for decades, to support Hamas.

Expecting anything else is to live in a fantasy world.

What humanitarian aid do they provide??

You searched and couldn't find anything?

 

[laughing dog]

No, he didn't.
You need to have someone read the piece to you - he wrote "Palestinians" not Hamas voters. Why do you keep trying to deflect from the issue.

I read his piece. He's listing many factors and he specifically recognizes that those who aren't supporting Hamas are the real victims here.

You didn't read it with comprehension if you can persistently ignore his central thesis that because Palestinians voted Hamas into power, all Palestinians are legitimate targets. That is the same reasoning Osama Bin Laden gave for killing US citizens because the US voted in gov'ts that he considered terrorists.

But you are right - the Palestinians who did not or do not support Hamas are the real victims here. And their victim status is due, in part, to the actions of the Israeli gov't.

 

[Crazy Eddie]

Hamas provides a lot of humanitarian aid to the people of Gaza.

It is very easy for the people of Gaza, living under the Israeli boot for decades, to support Hamas.

Expecting anything else is to live in a fantasy world.

What humanitarian aid do they provide??

Largely due to the ongoing blockade of Gaza, combined with the region's general lack of resources and the Israelis tendency to bomb and/or sabotage any manufacturing facilities that could potentially be used to make anything at all, Hamas' smuggling tunnels are effectively the ONLY source of consumable goods for the people of Gaza. At this point you can't get so much as a box of nails in Gaza that wasn't smuggled in through the tunnels. And the man who has to rebuild his home after an Israeli missile flattens it: the hammer, the nails, the wood, the paint, the concrete and all of the furniture are all courtesy of Hamas.

 

[Jayjay]

Why the fuck would anyone support Hamas if not for the rockets? What else do they do? The rockets and the suicide bombers and the kidnappings are Hamas' raison d'etre.

Are you joking?

Hamas does a great deal of humanitarian work. That is why they are supported.

I call bullshit. Show me a single Palestinian who says he supports Hamas because of the "humanitarian" services, but disagrees about the rockets.

 

[Harry Bosch]

What humanitarian aid do they provide??

You searched and couldn't find anything?

I thought that we are suppose to support all our opinions with links? Where is your link with Hamas goodness?

 

[untermensche]

Are you joking?

Hamas does a great deal of humanitarian work. That is why they are supported.

I call bullshit. Show me a single Palestinian who says he supports Hamas because of the "humanitarian" services, but disagrees about the rockets.

You want me to bring one to your home?

Here's a excerpt from the Wiki article on Hamas.

Hamas is popular among Palestinians in the Gaza Strip, though it also has a following in the West Bank, and to a lesser extent in other Middle Eastern countries. Its popularity stems in part from its welfare wing providing social services to Palestinians in the occupied territories. Such services are not generally provided by the Palestinian Authority. Israeli scholar Reuven Paz estimates that 90% of Hamas activities revolve around "social, welfare, cultural, and educational activities". Social services include running relief programs and funding schools, orphanages, mosques, healthcare clinics, soup kitchens, and sports leagues.[58]