www.sju.edu
It may be “like“ that to you, but it’s not “like” that at all. Discussions of morality and ethics can only usefully occur without religious contamination.
What's so strange about this board is that many people here seem to think I have some power to force them to live. I have no such power. If you're bent on suicide, then I won't and can't stop you.
I'm not sure what this has to do with what I posted.
If there are any such people, sure.
Then we need to work on means to stop suffering without knocking people out.
Get that ad hom in there. No pro-suicide rant is complete without at least one fallacy. In fact, it's looking like arguing for suicide isn't possible without fallacies. Many of the suicide supporters on this board, for example, insult me to prove how compassionate they are and to prove the importance of rights.
Unfortunately, we're not hearing from your Dad but from you. Are we to trust your judgment regarding who should live and who should die? Didn't you object to my choosing those alternatives? I've noticed that it is common for family members to tell these horror stories rather than the person they say was suffering.
What do they then say? I happen to be aware that such persons have created organizations to protect themselves from what they see as a threat to their lives. They're scared, and it looks like they have reason to be afraid.
I'm very serious when it comes to matters of life and death. Please get help if you are suicidal.
In this case it's a matter of opinion.
All religious rods lead to wars, conflicts, and abuse. Historical facts.
All religious roads lead to wars, conflicts, and abuse. Historical facts.
Brussels Sprouts are merely the tip of the iceberg. Any form of cooked leaf is not proper food and has no business being on the table. (And my wife is obviously going to hell because she likes most leaf food.)
Oh, dear, well I guess that is because none of us here, so far as I know, are elderly, terminally ill individuals suffering from untreatable and often excruciating pain. Can you possibly be as obtuse as you appear, or is something else going on?
And a cure to cancer too. We need to work on things, but we also need to live in the world we live in with the tools we currently have.
That sounds like an accusation of lying.
Isn't this the gist of the issue here. You are incapable of determining if someone is suicidal. It means you have no idea what you are talking about. You have repeatedly provided indications that you are actually a danger to people who are suicidal and more likely to shame them into killing themselves.
Yes--let's live in the world we live in using what means we have to reduce suffering or even eliminate pain if we can. I've proved that we can do it. Tragically, people often give up on doing so believing that we should just rid the world of its troubles by ridding the world of troubled people. We even have hateful, obnoxious people who will curse out anybody who points out the fact that death is not the answer, and they do that under the guise that they are compassionate and respect "the right to die."
You might earn my trust if you answer my questions. Why should any of us believe these "second-hand testimonies" of the dying needing what some call a "good death"?
I'm not sure why I should be able to tell if a person is suicidal. So rather than take any unnecessary risks, the prudent thing for anybody to do is urge apparently suicidal people to get help.
Very obviously any supposed inability on my part to diagnose suicidal tendencies doesn't mean I don't know what I'm talking about. Like Lion has pointed out, many here go on the personal attack once they realize their position is in trouble, and there's no fair way to defend it. But I do give you credit for not cursing me out.
LOL--where do you get that? Desperation leads us to ridiculous measures, does it not?
Correct. It's not paranoia to fear and oppose a real threat to the lives of the innocent.
That includes the disabled too. They've started groups like Not Dead Yet to oppose this death threat. There's no paranoia with them
I've been gaslighted many times when I've spoken out about people abusing the disabled and that includes myself being abused. We shouldn't be surprised when we are gaslighted here being libeled as "paranoid."
To me the logical approach is to try living and caring with dignity first.
Proved where? Just because there are some patients that can be helped doesn't mean all patients can be helped, nor that those who can be helped can be helped sufficiently. I know with my father that it reached the point where there was adequate pain control or there was thinking, but not both.
Just because you disagree with his claimed credentials doesn't make them false. Especially since he claimed to be retired, not active.
Right. We don't really know what people can be helped significantly. To find out we need to try to help them.
I know that my friend Pat was dying from cancer. She was in pain but told me the medication she was prescribed (I think it was morphine) was controlling that pain. I spent time with her speaking with her and keeping her occupied with a jigsaw puzzle we were working on. She seemed to be in good spirits and accepted her fate. Not long after that she died I believe peacefully. I think that my taking time out for her sent her the message that she was respected and valued as a human being.
I cry out with teary eyes--Loren, I believe; help my unbelief!
Except we do know it fails for some people.
No. This isn't a case where there's one right answer. Some people can be helped, some can't.
??
You need to have your wife hear, repent, confess, and then be baptized. Sorry, that's just my Church of Christ upbringing come out in me.
You do realize Hospice isn't about sustaining life, right? It is about allowing someone to die, but with comfort. The goal of Hospice isn't to help a person live an extra second.
Okay, so you said you shouldn't be able to tell if a person is suicidal, but then say you urge people are you think are suicidal to get help. That makes no sense.
It is a "second-hand testimony". So I'll file it where you file "second-hand testimonies".
When you said you allegedly were trying to shame a person who tried to commit suicide, which is a very good way to help push someone to try again.
Yes. But we don't know who those people are until we try to help them.
The one right answer is to try to help people so we know who can be helped. It's simple common sense. Why keep chanting "we can't help some people"? Is that a call to withdraw support from those we assume are hopeless?
I was alluding to Mark 9:23-25 where Jesus implores the father of a deaf and dumb child to believe that Jesus can cast out the spirit. In a similar way this board implores people to be believe.
