How can people entertain/believe the idea that Trump's COVID-19 infection is a hoax?

[Metaphor]

Many people on Twitter, including "journalists", have entertained the idea that the timing of Trump's infection was 'convenient' and possibly a hoax. Some of these people are re-framing their willingness to believe conspiracy theories as 'skepticism'.

How can anybody possible believe that it's a hoax? It might be possible to cover up Trump having COVID-19 (though I could scarcely imagine how vanishingly small the chances of a successful cover up could be), but to believe he has hoaxed Americans about having it when he doesn't? Set aside your visceral Trump hatred that you could believe any low act from him, how on earth do you think he has the power and competence to do it? You think every doctor and nurse attending to him is in on the conspiracy? That his positive diagnosis was faked? Such conspiratorial thinking beggars belief.

 

[Patooka]

Examples?

Also, if you are going to be outraged every time by what someone posts on Twitter of all fucking things, you won't have enough time left in the day to do anything else.

 

[Metaphor]

Examples?

https://youtu.be/NESofTy-sIA?t=1026

(at 17 minutes)

Also, if you are going to be outraged every time by what someone posts on Twitter of all fucking things, you won't have enough time left in the day to do anything else.

I didn't say I was outraged. I asked how people could believe it.

 

[Ford]

Examples?

Also, if you are going to be outraged every time by what someone posts on Twitter of all fucking things, you won't have enough time left in the day to do anything else.

"many people are saying" is the new "it's true."

Also, I find it hilarious that after 6 months of Trump downplaying the virus and calling it a "hoax," his supporters are now looking askance at people suggesting his diagnosis might not be real.

The irony is like a thick and tasty sauce on top of a shitty piece of meat.

 

[Patooka]

Examples?

https://youtu.be/NESofTy-sIA?t=1026

(at 17 minutes)

Also, if you are going to be outraged every time by what someone posts on Twitter of all fucking things, you won't have enough time left in the day to do anything else.

I didn't say I was outraged. I asked how people could believe it.

You gravely misrepresented those tweets. The only one who explicitly said it could be a hoax was Bette Midler. The others all pretty much said it's impossible to take the Trump Administration at its word without independent confirmation, and that is 100% true. I certainly fucking don't.

You are also using Rowan Dean as a source? The same guy who believes hydroxychloroquine is effective against Covid-19, the false narrative that the NSW Bushfires of '19-'20 were caused by arson (they weren't) and loves promoting conspiracy theories about George Soros and Black Lives Matters? (I'll try and find a transcript but this was the episode)

You're pointing out three tweets that don't even suggest conspiracy only skepticism, and you have the chutzpah to use a notorious right wing conspiracy theorist as your only source? Dude, I'm actually kinda impressed.

 

[Metaphor]

You gravely misrepresented those tweets.

For fuck's sake, I did not. You asked for examples and I gave one. I was very careful in my OP. I said some people were entertaining the idea and calling it 'convenient'. Jenna Price said "Does anyone believe him?"

The only one who explicitly said it could be a hoax was Bette Midler. The others all pretty much said it's impossible to take the Trump Administration at its word without independent confirmation, and that is 100% true. I certainly fucking don't.

It is unnecessary to 'trust' Trump. It is only necessary to engage one's brain that the possibility of a hoax is nil.

You are also using Rowan Dean as a source? The same guy who believes hydroxychloroquine is effective against Covid-19, the false narrative that the NSW Bushfires of '19-'20 were caused by arson (they weren't) and loves promoting conspiracy theories about George Soros and Black Lives Matters? (I'll try and find a transcript but this was the episode)

I don't know who Rowan Dean is. Either the Tweets are real or they are not. (They're real).

You're pointing out three tweets that don't even suggest conspiracy only skepticism, and you have the chutzpah to use a notorious right wing conspiracy theorist as your only source? Dude, I'm actually kinda impressed.

For fuck's sake, you are begging the question. To call it skepticism means you think the conspiratorial thinking is justified.

Also, that was not my 'only' source. Also, the source is irrelevant unless you think those Tweets don't exist. People on this very board displayed the same behaviour, and you are suggesting people haven't displayed this behaviour?

I am not fucking impressed.

I wanted to understand people's thinking. I wanted to know how anybody could entertain a belief that seems to me so obviously batshit insane. But no, you don't want to actually respond as to why people might believe it. You want to deny people do believe it.

 

[Treedbear]

...

Also, if you are going to be outraged every time by what someone posts on Twitter of all fucking things, you won't have enough time left in the day to do anything else.

I didn't say I was outraged. I asked how people could believe it.

Personally, you began to seem outraged to me when you began insinuating things about the readers of your post:

... Set aside your visceral Trump hatred that you could believe any low act from him, how on earth do you think he has the power and competence to do it? You think every doctor and nurse attending to him is in on the conspiracy? That his positive diagnosis was faked? Such conspiratorial thinking beggars belief.

If instead you'd said "If they set aside their visceral Trump hatred ..." it would come across as more reasonable.

 

[Metaphor]

Personally, you began to seem outraged to me when you began insinuating things about the readers of your post:

... Set aside your visceral Trump hatred that you could believe any low act from him, how on earth do you think he has the power and competence to do it? You think every doctor and nurse attending to him is in on the conspiracy? That his positive diagnosis was faked? Such conspiratorial thinking beggars belief.

If instead you'd said "If they set aside their visceral Trump hatred ..." it would come across as more reasonable.

I am not outraged that people have a visceral hatred of Trump. In fact, that's why I think people "expressed skepticism".

What I want to know is, after that visceral impulse occurred (Trump is a liar and lunatic), did they think 'okay, would it be possible for a sitting president to fake COVID-19 to the entire country, and fake the other people infected, and expect it to not be discovered?'

 

[Patooka]

For fuck's sake, I did not. You asked for examples and I gave one. I was very careful in my OP. I said some people were entertaining the idea and calling it 'convenient'. Jenna Price said "Does anyone believe him?"

I don't. Donald Trump could say the sun would rise up tomorrow and I would wait for a second opinion. I am of that opinion because I take into account the numerous amounts of obfuscations and outright lies Trump has said over the years. I know Trump has Covid-19. I don't trust anything Trump says. Those two statements do not contradict one another.

It is unnecessary to 'trust' Trump. It is only necessary to engage one's brain that the possibility of a hoax is nil.

Both Jenna Price's and Jane Caro's tweets basically boil down to "I don't trust Trump and I can't believe him". That's sound advice.

I don't know who Rowan Dean is. Either the Tweets are real or they are not. (They're real).

How did you come by this Sky clip then, out of curiosity? Also, knowing who Rowan Dean is VERY important in the context of the clip. He and Jane Caro worked together on The Gruen Transfer and there is bad blood between the two. Dean is pointing out a very real tweet - you are right. He is also pointing it out of context and in bad faith. I'm certain there are other tweets that suggest people to be skeptical towards Trump - Dean used Caro's tweet as a fuck you to a former co-worker.

For fuck's sake, you are begging the question. To call it skepticism means you think the conspiratorial thinking is justified.

Also, that was not my 'only' source. Also, the source is irrelevant unless you think those Tweets don't exist. People on this very board displayed the same behaviour, and you are suggesting people haven't displayed this behaviour?

I am not fucking impressed.

I wanted to understand people's thinking. I wanted to know how anybody could entertain a belief that seems to me so obviously batshit insane. But no, you don't want to actually respond as to why people might believe it. You want to deny people do believe it.

I seem to recall a certain someone who took issue with blanket statements and sweeping generalisations in another discussion about Covid. I can't remember the particulars; it will come back to me.

To spell out what I think - I think you are making a storm out of a teacup and manufacturing outrage because of reasons. Tweets that suggest not to take anything Trump says at face value is not the same as believing in conspiracy. I also have no doubt that there are people on Twitter who explicitly believe this is all a conspiracy made up by Trump. They are so much in the minority and fringe that what you are attempting to do gives them more legitimacy than they deserve.

The bit about your original post that I am certain is complete horse shit is your insinuation that quite a few respectable journalists are buying into this conspiracy. Bette Midler, a part-time columnist and a lecturer is so infinitesimal in the media as to be fucking negligible.

 

[Metaphor]

How did you come by this Sky clip then, out of curiosity?

YouTube algorithm.

Also, knowing who Rowan Dean is VERY important in the context of the clip. He and Jane Caro worked together on The Gruen Transfer and there is bad blood between the two. Dean is pointing out a very real tweet - you are right. He is also pointing it out of context and in bad faith. I'm certain there are other tweets that suggest people to be skeptical towards Trump - Dean used Caro's tweet as a fuck you to a former co-worker.

The individual people don't matter. They are examples. Whether Dean picked out this one from the many people 'expressing skepticism' is irrelevant. It's the phenomenon itself I'm interested in.

I seem to recall a certain someone who took issue with blanket statements and sweeping generalisations in another discussion about Covid. I can't remember the particulars; it will come back to me.

I'll wait.

To spell out what I think - I think you are making a storm out of a teacup and manufacturing outrage because of reasons.

What, precisely, makes you think I'm outraged, or that I'm trying to manufacture it?

I come across people stating things that I think is batshit insane (Trump faking COVID-19). I want to know how people can express belief in this batshit insane thing.

Tweets that suggest not to take anything Trump says at face value is not the same as believing in conspiracy. I also have no doubt that there are people on Twitter who explicitly believe this is all a conspiracy made up by Trump. They are so much in the minority and fringe that what you are attempting to do gives them more legitimacy than they deserve.

The bit about your original post that I am certain is complete horse shit is your insinuation that quite a few respectable journalists are buying into this conspiracy.

I didn't call them respectable (I do not respect Jenna Price, for example), and I said it included journalists, not that it was largely journalists.

Bette Midler, a part-time columnist and a lecturer is so infinitesimal in the media as to be fucking negligible.

I didn't know Midler was a columnist of any kind. I did not suggest she was a journalist.

 

[Patooka]

On a side note as to why some people are skeptical of The White House in its response:

[tweet]1311946898207641600[/tweet]

I'm not sure if Dr Jackson knows what asymptotic means, but it isn't a good thing. And I don't have a fucking clue what a comorbite is.

Then we have this he said/she said exchange between the White House and Trump's physicians:

[tweet]1312470441986932736[/tweet]

So there is ample justification to be skeptical about this incident.

 

[Patooka]

I didn't know Midler was a columnist of any kind. I did not suggest she was a journalist.

I'm sorry, that was my mistake. Jenna Price is the part time columnist, Jane Caro the lecturer. 3 tweets in total. Hardly a phenomenon. And as I keep saying, there is ample justification not to trust the current US Administration.

 

[Metaphor]

I didn't know Midler was a columnist of any kind. I did not suggest she was a journalist.

I'm sorry, that was my mistake. Jenna Price is the part time columnist, Jane Caro the lecturer. 3 tweets in total. Hardly a phenomenon. And as I keep saying, there is ample justification not to trust the current US Administration.

The tweets are an example. A phenomenon is an observed act or event. The phenomenon I was interested in is people believing or entertaining that Trump could actually hoax having COVID-19.

 

[Patooka]

Yep, and you can find conspiracy theories on just about anything. For example:

QAnon Followers Think Trump’s Covid-19 Tweet Had a Secret Message About Hillary Clinton

“They believe the real reason he is in quarantine is to isolate him away from the evil deep state plotters so the storm can commence, and no one can reach him once the shit hits the fan, and when the mass arrests start he will be protected,” says Travis View, co-host of the QAnon Anonymous podcast, which explores the bizarre roots of the conspiracy theory. “So of course this plays into the ‘nothing as it seems’ component of conspiracist thinking.”

A major piece of “evidence” believers have cited is Trump’s own tweet announcing he had tested positive for the virus: “Tonight, @FLOTUS and I tested positive for COVID-19. We will begin our quarantine and recovery process immediately. We will get through this TOGETHER!” Many QAnon believers interpreted “together” as “to get her,” “her” meaning Hillary Clinton, a classic example of the QAnon “decoding” of “breadcrumbs,” or so-called hints the President has dropped to alert them that the plan is in action.

Donald Trump's COVID-19 diagnosis sparks explosion of conspiracy theories

Twitter, meanwhile, was monitoring an uptick in "copypasta" campaigns about Trump's illness. "Copypasta" campaigns are attempts by numerous Twitter accounts to parrot the same phrase over and over to inundate users with messaging, and they are sometimes signals of co-ordinated activity. The social media company said it was working to limit views on those tweets.

So basically, this phenomenon was created by a miniscule amount of crackpots and some professional trolls who conflated the issue with bots and copypasta. My advice: treat these people as you would people who wear sandals and socks. Pity them, dismiss what they say and just fucking move on. They're aren't as many of them as you'd think.

 

[Patooka]

I'm not sure why Metaphor is omitting all the right-wing conspiracies about Trump and Covid. It seems weird but here is another example:

Alex Jones: White House staffer may have poisoned Trump’s Diet Coke and then told him he has COVID-19

I'll repeat; you can find any kind of fucked up conspiracy shit on the fringes. It's. Not. Relevant. By. Any. Reasonable. Measure.

 

[Metaphor]

I'm not sure why Metaphor is omitting all the right-wing conspiracies about Trump and Covid. It seems weird but here is another example:

Alex Jones: White House staffer may have poisoned Trump’s Diet Coke and then told him he has COVID-19

I'll repeat; you can find any kind of fucked up conspiracy shit on the fringes. It's. Not. Relevant. By. Any. Reasonable. Measure.

I did not suggest most people believed it. I did not suggest it was some kind of urgent problem that needs addressing.

I asked what causes people to think such a thing. It isn't some attempt for me to besmirch the left. I think it's a very weird thing to believe and I have seen people on this board believe the same thing (southernhybrid, for example).

Now, it's one thing for the left to use Trump's COVID-19 diagnosis as simply a way to make a jab at the president (something like "if Trump told me the sky was blue, I'd question my upbringing"). And if that's all it is, okay, I guess. But something caused these people to think it was a possibility that such a conspiracy could be maintained, and they thought it long enough to compose a tweet or post about it.

 

[James Brown]

I did not suggest most people believed it. I did not suggest it was some kind of urgent problem that needs addressing.

I asked what causes people to think such a thing....But something caused these people to think it was a possibility that such a conspiracy could be maintained, and they thought it long enough to compose a tweet or post about it.

Perhaps you could ask them why they think such a thing? Reply back to them on Twitter, or e-mail them for comment?

The best that any member of this board can do is speculate why a handful of other people wrote something.

 

[Patooka]

I asked what causes people to think such a thing.

When in doubt, ask John Oliver.

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0b_eHBZLM6U[/youtube]

 

[funinspace]

I'm not sure why Metaphor is omitting all the right-wing conspiracies about Trump and Covid. It seems weird but here is another example:

Alex Jones: White House staffer may have poisoned Trump’s Diet Coke and then told him he has COVID-19

I'll repeat; you can find any kind of fucked up conspiracy shit on the fringes. It's. Not. Relevant. By. Any. Reasonable. Measure.

I did not suggest most people believed it. I did not suggest it was some kind of urgent problem that needs addressing.

I asked what causes people to think such a thing. It isn't some attempt for me to besmirch the left.

This is an age old issue, and it seems many people like to have strange answers to either unknowns or to things that are just so simple and uncomplicated. JFK's assasination, the Illumine controlling much of the world, Jewish bankers, the government using Contrails making one gay, Jade Helm 15... And the last 4 years with Clownstick has elevated the batshit insane world of conspiracy theories to a new level.

I think it's a very weird thing to believe and I have seen people on this board believe the same thing (southernhybrid, for example).

First ask southernhybrid, if you think she said such. Second, I have strong doubts she said any such thing as she seems quite rational, level headed, and reasonable from the times I have read her posts. You saying she did say it, w/o quotes, lacks pretty much any credibility IMPOV.

 

[southernhybrid]

I asked what causes people to think such a thing. It isn't some attempt for me to besmirch the left. I think it's a very weird thing to believe and I have seen people on this board believe the same thing (southernhybrid, for example).

I don't remember what I said, but I wasn't serious if I said it was a hoax. I had been arguing with my sister that morning, who did believe it was a hoax. I kept telling her that I didn't think so but considering how often Trump lies, I could understand why some people might think that. She didn't believe Trump was really infected until much later that day. She was mad as hell at Trump because she lives just a few miles away from the place where he held that fund raiser in New Jersey and she was worried that the cases would rise again in her area.

But, I don't know any Democrats who think it's a hoax now. That was something that some people thought when he first announced that he had the virus. It's only because almost every time Trump speaks or tweets, he lies. When I heard that he was infected, I actually ran to the bedroom to tell my husband that the virus had finally caught up with Trump, and considering his total lack of empathy for others, and his lack of treating this pandemic seriously, he deserved to be infected. He did this to himself and as a result, many others have been infected.

I don't tweet so do tell, are people on the left still claiming that Trump's infection is a hoax? I don't know a single person who believes that. And why is such minutia so important to you?