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How is Bernie going to pay for it??!!!111

I've worked in the healthcare for forty years. I don't think some of you understand our so called system. For one, Bernie talks about FREE care with no premiums. I think he's called it Medicare for all. Well, as someone who receives Medicare and who continues to serve people who are on Medicare, let me explain a few things. Medicare A is free, but it only covers hospitalization, ( after about a 1200 dollar deductible ) home health and hospice. Medicare B costs about 105 dollars a month for most recipients. It only pays 80% of out patient services. Part D is the drug plan. It's offered by private insurance companies. The cost ranges from about 20 bucks a month to over 100 a month. It includes co pays and there are a lot of drugs that aren't covered at all by most plans. Then there are the supplements. They cover the 20% not paid for by part B and the hospital deductible. None of those plans cover more than what Medicare will pay, so there are quite a few providers that won't even take Medicare for payment. The supplements usually cost anywhere from 125-300 or so per month. The price increases as one ages. So, if an individual has all of the parts, it's going to cost as much as 300 or more a month just for the premiums. There are still copays and deductibles for the drugs. Medicare is currently in financial trouble unless Congress votes to fix it. One big problem is end of life care, which accounts for as much as one third of total costs.

So, are Americans willing to give up aggressive end of life treatments? In my experience, a fairly good percentage of older adults want everything possible done to extend their lives. What about younger recipients if we had Medicare for all? Are they going to simply give up if they are diagnosed with a terminal or very serious chronic illness?

Oh, I forgot to mention Part C. Part C was introduced by a Republican Congress. It is basically an HMO with strict limitations. It is very cheap, but that's the best thing I can say about it. Everyone of my patients with Part C couldn't wait until open enrollment so they could change to the more traditional Medicare. Part C is a great option as long as you're younger or very healthy. Once you start having health problems, Part C can be a nightmare. Most of the better providers won't accept it.

In order to transition to what we have now, to Medicare for everyone, it would not only take a tremendous amount of support from both parties, it would require a lot of support from the medical community or medical industrial complex if you prefer. And, it most likely wouldn't be free. I wish the Bernie would at least be honest about the fact that Medicare isn't free. He never gives any reasonable answer when asked how free healthcare would be financed. I find him to be as dishonest as most any other politician. He promises things that, unless he's totally delusional, he knows won't happen. He takes advantage of the naivety of people that don't understand the complexity of our healthcare conglomeration.

I'll be the first to admit that our healthcare system needs vast improvement, but I don't think promising pie in the sky is going to help solve our problems with healthcare. Obama care was a step in the right direction but a lot more needs to be done and it's going to have to be done with baby steps.

So, Bernie supporters, I ask you this: just how do you think Bernie would be able to convince Congress to totally change what we have in exchange for FREE care for everyone? How would it be paid for? What programs would be ended or greatly reduced? How much would you be willing to pay in increased taxes in exchange for guaranteed healthcare?
 
If we actually did institute some of the European models of universal health care and education we could decrease taxes by $500.00.

Based on what belief? That nobody would get health care any more?
Based on the fact that the rest of the world get's better healthcare than the US for half the price.
US healthcare is a racket.
 
Based on what belief? That nobody would get health care any more?
Based on the fact that the rest of the world get's better healthcare than the US for half the price.
US healthcare is a racket.

Actually there might be a good chance we'll get better health care results by having less of it.
 
I've worked in the healthcare for forty years. I don't think some of you understand our so called system. For one, Bernie talks about FREE care with no premiums. I think he's called it Medicare for all. Well, as someone who receives Medicare and who continues to serve people who are on Medicare, let me explain a few things. Medicare A is free, but it only covers hospitalization, ( after about a 1200 dollar deductible ) home health and hospice. Medicare B costs about 105 dollars a month for most recipients. It only pays 80% of out patient services. Part D is the drug plan. It's offered by private insurance companies. The cost ranges from about 20 bucks a month to over 100 a month. It includes co pays and there are a lot of drugs that aren't covered at all by most plans. Then there are the supplements. They cover the 20% not paid for by part B and the hospital deductible. None of those plans cover more than what Medicare will pay, so there are quite a few providers that won't even take Medicare for payment. The supplements usually cost anywhere from 125-300 or so per month. The price increases as one ages. So, if an individual has all of the parts, it's going to cost as much as 300 or more a month just for the premiums. There are still copays and deductibles for the drugs. Medicare is currently in financial trouble unless Congress votes to fix it. One big problem is end of life care, which accounts for as much as one third of total costs.

So, are Americans willing to give up aggressive end of life treatments? In my experience, a fairly good percentage of older adults want everything possible done to extend their lives. What about younger recipients if we had Medicare for all? Are they going to simply give up if they are diagnosed with a terminal or very serious chronic illness?

Oh, I forgot to mention Part C. Part C was introduced by a Republican Congress. It is basically an HMO with strict limitations. It is very cheap, but that's the best thing I can say about it. Everyone of my patients with Part C couldn't wait until open enrollment so they could change to the more traditional Medicare. Part C is a great option as long as you're younger or very healthy. Once you start having health problems, Part C can be a nightmare. Most of the better providers won't accept it.

In order to transition to what we have now, to Medicare for everyone, it would not only take a tremendous amount of support from both parties, it would require a lot of support from the medical community or medical industrial complex if you prefer. And, it most likely wouldn't be free. I wish the Bernie would at least be honest about the fact that Medicare isn't free. He never gives any reasonable answer when asked how free healthcare would be financed. I find him to be as dishonest as most any other politician. He promises things that, unless he's totally delusional, he knows won't happen. He takes advantage of the naivety of people that don't understand the complexity of our healthcare conglomeration.

I'll be the first to admit that our healthcare system needs vast improvement, but I don't think promising pie in the sky is going to help solve our problems with healthcare. Obama care was a step in the right direction but a lot more needs to be done and it's going to have to be done with baby steps.

So, Bernie supporters, I ask you this: just how do you think Bernie would be able to convince Congress to totally change what we have in exchange for FREE care for everyone? How would it be paid for? What programs would be ended or greatly reduced? How much would you be willing to pay in increased taxes in exchange for guaranteed healthcare?
But there is no reason this system needs to continue like this. "Privatization" and "free trade" has led to health care being treated as any other for-profit, commercial commodity. You have all sorts of providers, ancillary 'services' and parasites trying to extract as much money as possible from their clients. Everybody has a finger in the pie and the interests of the patient are secondary.
If healthcare were treated as part of the commons; as a public service like police, fire or elementary education, it would cost a fraction of what it does currently in the US.
 
But there is no reason this system needs to continue like this. "Privatization" and "free trade" has led to health care being treated as any other for-profit, commercial commodity. You have all sorts of providers, ancillary 'services' and parasites trying to extract as much money as possible from their clients. Everybody has a finger in the pie and the interests of the patient are secondary.
If healthcare were treated as part of the commons; as a public service like police, fire or elementary education, it would cost a fraction of what it does currently in the US.

The problem is you'd need a public entity run with the efficiency of a private enterprise, with quick and high quality service. But you can't have both. So a society makes a trade off. A DMV-like health program (e.g., the VA), where health services are available, so long as you don't need them right now and government bureaucrats choose what you can get. Or you can have a private system which orients its services, and the availability of those services, based on market demand. A problem with the former, to me, is what do you do when you get sub par service? If there's only one game in town, you're screw. Can't fire the government. The latter option may be more expense to the individual, but there is choice and faster service.

Canada has one of the lowest rates of MRI scanning machines per capita in the developed world, with six MRI scanners per million people, compared to 40.1 in Japan, 14.4 in Switzerland and 26.6 in the United States. Pittsburgh alone has more MRI machines than all of Canada.

http://www.bcliving.ca/health/mri-scans-waiting-for-public-health-care-vs-paying-for-a-private-mri-clinic
 
The problem is you'd need a public entity run with the efficiency of a private enterprise, with quick and high quality service. But you can't have both. So a society makes a trade off. A DMV-like health program (e.g., the VA), where health services are available, so long as you don't need them right now and government bureaucrats choose what you can get. Or you can have a private system which orients its services, and the availability of those services, based on market demand. A problem with the former, to me, is what do you do when you get sub par service? If there's only one game in town, you're screw. Can't fire the government. The latter option may be more expense to the individual, but there is choice and faster service.

Canada has one of the lowest rates of MRI scanning machines per capita in the developed world, with six MRI scanners per million people, compared to 40.1 in Japan, 14.4 in Switzerland and 26.6 in the United States. Pittsburgh alone has more MRI machines than all of Canada.

http://www.bcliving.ca/health/mri-scans-waiting-for-public-health-care-vs-paying-for-a-private-mri-clinic
There are many more problems than that.
First there are much better public healthcare models than Canada.

Second, there are Public Health models that work well, like France and Germany. We could use practices in these models to help when designing our system. We wouldn't base it on failed methods and practices.

Lastly, the majority of the public has favored public assistance in healthcare consistently, for over half a century. We should do it in the most cost effective way, and that is not having poor people who because they have no healthcare coverage wait until they collapse from their condition and are rushed to emergency care. You have a situation where a condition that may have been easily fixed for $1,000 or $2000 costing 100,000 or 200,000 because of emergency care and surgeries. And this happens thousands of times a day across the country.

There absolutely has to be Universal Healthcare. Right now we are paying for universal emergency care. This more than anything is what is driving healthcare costs through the roof.

On edit:I guess first and second are the same, heh.
 
The problem is you'd need a public entity run with the efficiency of a private enterprise, with quick and high quality service. But you can't have both. So a society makes a trade off. A DMV-like health program (e.g., the VA), where health services are available, so long as you don't need them right now and government bureaucrats choose what you can get. Or you can have a private system which orients its services, and the availability of those services, based on market demand. A problem with the former, to me, is what do you do when you get sub par service? If there's only one game in town, you're screw. Can't fire the government. The latter option may be more expense to the individual, but there is choice and faster service.

What do you mean you can't fire the government? Health care spending and related issues are generally major factors in every election and if the government fucks things up too badly, they're out on their asses.
 
The problem is you'd need a public entity run with the efficiency of a private enterprise, with quick and high quality service. But you can't have both. So a society makes a trade off. A DMV-like health program (e.g., the VA), where health services are available, so long as you don't need them right now and government bureaucrats choose what you can get. Or you can have a private system which orients its services, and the availability of those services, based on market demand. A problem with the former, to me, is what do you do when you get sub par service? If there's only one game in town, you're screw. Can't fire the government. The latter option may be more expense to the individual, but there is choice and faster service.

What do you mean you can't fire the government? Health care spending and related issues are generally major factors in every election and if the government fucks things up too badly, they're out on their asses.

How does that effect a patient who's healthcare is limited to a government run program? If I'm unhappy with the wait at my government clinic, or feel my government doctor is incompetent, I have to wait until an election and then hope that, eventually, I might get to go to the hospital or doctor of my choice?
 
What do you mean you can't fire the government? Health care spending and related issues are generally major factors in every election and if the government fucks things up too badly, they're out on their asses.
How does that effect a patient who's healthcare is limited to a government run program?
Run program, you mean managed program? Your Senator isn't going to be the doctor.
If I'm unhappy with the wait at my government clinic, or feel my government doctor is incompetent, I have to wait until an election and then hope that, eventually, I might get to go to the hospital or doctor of my choice?
You seem to have an absurd understanding of how a NHS would operate.

Do Medicare and Medicaid patients go to 'the government clinic'? The only Government clinics that I know are prevalent are the VA Hospitals.
 
....I'll be the first to admit that our healthcare system needs vast improvement, but I don't think promising pie in the sky is going to help solve our problems with healthcare. Obama care was a step in the right direction but a lot more needs to be done and it's going to have to be done with baby steps......

How is something EVERY other civilized nation on the planet is doing "pie in the sky"?

The indoctrination you run into over this matter is unbelievable.

We instantly find trillions to pay for a war we don't need.

But we somehow can't find the money for the essentials?

What an upside down twisted view of the world imperialism creates.
 
Actually a lot of the VA Hospitals actually do a good job.
So why isn't that the motto?

VA care for everyone.
Because people like you shit your pants over the ACA and people feared you'd all have strokes (if they went for a national system) which would clog our hospital systems with millions of conservative stroke patients hogging beds from people in need of medical care.
 
The expenses of a government ought to be what it costs to maintain society in a reasonable state of health and education and civil order. Cancel the F-35 and there is enough money for a lot of civil improvements. No government can rule the world like Trump and Clinton want without impoverishing its own people denying them the things they need. A better question might be how can we not afford to look after our domestic needs and yet control the world? How can we be well equipped with the hardware we need when we rely on enemies of our own making to supply it to us. We are engaging here in tomfoolery to imagine that military hardware and harsh leadership will somehow solve our national problems. Trump and Hillary both are losers when it comes to caring for their country. The same with the Republican Congress, the Right wing Supreme Court, and our leader who engages simultaneously in diplomacy with Iran and assassination of people he doesn't like world wide. When the war hawks talk about costs, what they are really saying is that the money we would use for the people, they already have spent trying to dominate the world...and just a little more and we will be over some kind of hump that just keeps humping us. We don't need war mongers preaching to us about costs when they cost us both money and education and even the lives of our youths. The question is preposterous. Can we afford health care and education and infrastructure? Can we afford to do without it and fight instead endless wars that we always end up losing. Trump has told his people he will win them....How can we afford that?
 
So why isn't that the motto?

VA care for everyone.
Because people like you shit your pants over the ACA and people feared you'd all have strokes (if they went for a national system) which would clog our hospital systems with millions of conservative stroke patients hogging beds from people in need of medical care.

And that somehow stops you from saying "VA care for everyone!"?
 
The expenses of a government ought to be what it costs to maintain society in a reasonable state of health and education and civil order. Cancel the F-35 and there is enough money for a lot of civil improvements. No government can rule the world like Trump and Clinton want without impoverishing its own people denying them the things they need. A better question might be how can we not afford to look after our domestic needs and yet control the world? How can we be well equipped with the hardware we need when we rely on enemies of our own making to supply it to us. We are engaging here in tomfoolery to imagine that military hardware and harsh leadership will somehow solve our national problems. Trump and Hillary both are losers when it comes to caring for their country. The same with the Republican Congress, the Right wing Supreme Court, and our leader who engages simultaneously in diplomacy with Iran and assassination of people he doesn't like world wide. When the war hawks talk about costs, what they are really saying is that the money we would use for the people, they already have spent trying to dominate the world...and just a little more and we will be over some kind of hump that just keeps humping us. We don't need war mongers preaching to us about costs when they cost us both money and education and even the lives of our youths. The question is preposterous. Can we afford health care and education and infrastructure? Can we afford to do without it and fight instead endless wars that we always end up losing. Trump has told his people he will win them....How can we afford that?

Good post. But...
"No government can rule the world like Trump and Clinton want without impoverishing its own people denying them the things they need."

As if Trump or Clinton give a rat's ass about THAT!
 
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