How should west respond to potential (likely) Russian invasion of Ukraine?

[Copernicus]

Putin is now positioning troops in Belarus where they could be roughly 100 miles north of Kyiv, with the possibility of seizing the capital and deposing the current government. It is hard to imagine that this would happen smoothly or that ordinary Russians would turn a blind eye to the ensuing carnage. It is one thing to unleash the military on Ukrainian forces near the Donbas, but attacks on major cities like Kyiv and Odessa would leave a completely different impression of the cost of war. Ukraine is not going to go quietly, and there are bound to be lots of Russian casualties, not to mention innocent civilians. It appears that Lukashenko would have little choice but to allow Putin to launch a fresh invasion from Belarus territory, now that his brutal regime depends on Moscow for its continued existence. The excuse for positioning those troops at a time of high tension is that they are there for joint exercises with the Belarus military, although it isn't clear that Putin even consulted with Lukashenko before shifting troops into that location.

See: Russia moves more troops westward amid Ukraine tensions

 

[Elixir]

And barbos has gone dark on this thread ... another bad sign?

 

[Jarhyn]

And barbos has gone dark on this thread ... another bad sign?

Probably.

 

[ZiprHead]

I hope he didn't get the rona.

 

[barbos]

And barbos has gone dark on this thread ... another bad sign?

No, I merely put copernicus on ignore.

Funny news which american "news" probably would not report. Germany made british plane with weapons for Ukraine to fly around Germany

And the other funny news, Ukraine demands to make names of the NATO countries who are against Ukraine membership to be made public

 

[barbos]

I hope he didn't get the rona.

I feel sarcasm.

 

[ZiprHead]

I hope he didn't get the rona.

I feel sarcasm.

Nope. It was genuine. I know we have some differences on some issues but I definitely hope you stay safe.

 

[Copernicus]

And barbos has gone dark on this thread ... another bad sign?

No, I merely put copernicus on ignore.

Funny news which american "news" probably would not report. Germany made british plane with weapons for Ukraine to fly around Germany

And the other funny news, Ukraine demands to make names of the NATO countries who are against Ukraine membership to be made public

I love the ignore feature. That means that he still sees I posted something and he has to manually open it to see what I posted. Also, he still sees replies that quote my posts, so be careful not to quote me in threads that he might be monitoring. That's why I almost never put anyone on ignore. My approach is just to ignore them. Hi, barbos!

I don't know that there were any NATO countries that wanted Ukraine to join, so it would make more sense to publish the names of those countries. NATO currently has no treaty obligation to defend Ukraine, and that is the way it will be for the foreseeable future. Other countries such as the Baltic nations are under NATO's protection, so Putin doesn't dare invade those. Not yet, anyway. At this point in time, NATO will be strengthening its presence in all of the NATO countries in eastern Europe, especially Poland, whose border is close to where Putin's new deployment will be positioned.

 

[barbos]

It does appear that armed conflict can't be avoided. Putin has pushed himself into a corner that he can't escape from.

This is largely western propaganda myth that Putin is planning to invade.
In Russia nobody believes that and Putin can simply "cancel" the "invasion" without any loss to his perceived image.
Having said that, yes there is very little either side can do. So both sides are in the corners. Russia can not allow NATO in Ukraine and US can not give such promise to Russia. Not in the present format. NATO is fundamentally anti-russian block which is supported by millitary-industrial complex. My hope that over time China will take the rightful place of the enemy of the world and US will leave Russia alone with NATO losing their relevance.

 

[Copernicus]

It does appear that armed conflict can't be avoided. Putin has pushed himself into a corner that he can't escape from.

This is largely western propaganda myth that Putin is planning to invade.
In Russia nobody believes that and Putin can simply "cancel" the "invasion" without any loss to his perceived image.
Having said that, yes there is very little either side can do. So both sides are in the corners. Russia can not allow NATO in Ukraine and US can not give such promise to Russia. Not in the present format. NATO is fundamentally anti-russian block which is supported by millitary-industrial complex. My hope that over time China will take the rightful place of the enemy of the world and US will leave Russia alone with NATO losing their relevance.

If Putin answered to barbos, he probably could just smile, walk away, and say "never mind". Barbos poses no threat to him, but there are others Putin depends on who could. The problem is that the West will have called his bluff and won the macho stare-down match. It will be a tremendous loss of prestige to have spent all that money and wound everyone up to just back away. He didn't have to have made impossible demands, but he did. Now he needs something. Otherwise, he has to show that he meant business. I think that most governments understand that and realize that he is probably going to have to start hostilities at some point, if they can't find some way to help him back away. And it really isn't clear that Putin wants to back away. He really does want his old Soviet Union back in all its glory. He feels that it didn't have to collapse the way it did and that the country was betrayed by leaders like Gorbachev and Yeltsin. He wants a redo.

 

[Harry Bosch]

It does appear that armed conflict can't be avoided. Putin has pushed himself into a corner that he can't escape from.

This is largely western propaganda myth that Putin is planning to invade.
In Russia nobody believes that and Putin can simply "cancel" the "invasion" without any loss to his perceived image.
Having said that, yes there is very little either side can do. So both sides are in the corners. Russia can not allow NATO in Ukraine and US can not give such promise to Russia. Not in the present format. NATO is fundamentally anti-russian block which is supported by millitary-industrial complex. My hope that over time China will take the rightful place of the enemy of the world and US will leave Russia alone with NATO losing their relevance.

You contradicted yourself. You said that it's a western myth "that Putin is planning to invade". And yet, you said in the next sentence that nobody believes in Russia that "Putin can simply cancel the invasion". If Putin truely didn't want Russia in Nato, why is he pushing them into Nato? I think that the grand master PooPah Putin is losing it.

 

[barbos]

It does appear that armed conflict can't be avoided. Putin has pushed himself into a corner that he can't escape from.

This is largely western propaganda myth that Putin is planning to invade.
In Russia nobody believes that and Putin can simply "cancel" the "invasion" without any loss to his perceived image.
Having said that, yes there is very little either side can do. So both sides are in the corners. Russia can not allow NATO in Ukraine and US can not give such promise to Russia. Not in the present format. NATO is fundamentally anti-russian block which is supported by millitary-industrial complex. My hope that over time China will take the rightful place of the enemy of the world and US will leave Russia alone with NATO losing their relevance.

You contradicted yourself. You said that it's a western myth "that Putin is planning to invade". And yet, you said in the next sentence that nobody believes in Russia that "Putin can simply cancel the invasion". If Putin truely didn't want Russia in Nato, why is he pushing them into Nato? I think that the grand master PooPah Putin is losing it.

Read what I wrote again.

 

[Harry Bosch]

It does appear that armed conflict can't be avoided. Putin has pushed himself into a corner that he can't escape from.

This is largely western propaganda myth that Putin is planning to invade.
In Russia nobody believes that and Putin can simply "cancel" the "invasion" without any loss to his perceived image.
Having said that, yes there is very little either side can do. So both sides are in the corners. Russia can not allow NATO in Ukraine and US can not give such promise to Russia. Not in the present format. NATO is fundamentally anti-russian block which is supported by millitary-industrial complex. My hope that over time China will take the rightful place of the enemy of the world and US will leave Russia alone with NATO losing their relevance.

You contradicted yourself. You said that it's a western myth "that Putin is planning to invade". And yet, you said in the next sentence that nobody believes in Russia that "Putin can simply cancel the invasion". If Putin truely didn't want Russia in Nato, why is he pushing them into Nato? I think that the grand master PooPah Putin is losing it.

Read what I wrote again.

The west has been anticipating Putin's invasion for weeks. Therefore, the west has been trying to help Ukraine and is planning deep and painful sanctions for Russia. If Putin attacks in the next few weeks, the west was right. Correct?

 

[barbos]

If Putin attacks in the next few weeks, the west was right. Correct?

The West will be right no matter what. The West is always right, cause it's West!

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

If Putin attacks in the next few weeks, the west was right. Correct?

The West will be right no matter what. The West is always right, cause it's West!

Well duh.

To be fair, Russia has rarely had a golden touch. Wherever they place influence, things become gray. Where as the United States, any third world nation we expand capitalism to becomes a darker shade of red. But at least they have open markets... kind of.

It is funny, in a sort of way that Russia and the US have literally ruined the lives of millions, killing hundreds of thousands, in a show of penis length against one another. The US jeopardized the lives of millions to ensure the safety of corporate holdings in Central/South America. There certainly is a glossing over the truth when regarding American influence of other nations.

And Russian/France&England paranoia of each other has been endemic for over a century.

 

[Harry Bosch]

If Putin attacks in the next few weeks, the west was right. Correct?

The West will be right no matter what. The West is always right, cause it's West!

Well, the sad thing about is that there really doesn't need to be any sides here. The fact is that Nato hadn't been arming Ukraine or expanding into Ukraine. Ukraine has been begging them to do this for years. They've been screaming for help and defensive weapons. We've been declining in order to not offend Mother Russia. Probably a mistake by the west. Well, the weapons are going to pour in now! It's Russia that is pushing the former eastern bloc countries towards the west, not Nato. If Mother Russia would just stop bullying other countries, there would be no conflict.

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

The Putin will be opposed by force and he will lose. When? Anyone's guess. It's all up to the Putin.

 

[barbos]

If Putin attacks in the next few weeks, the west was right. Correct?

The West will be right no matter what. The West is always right, cause it's West!

Well, the sad thing about is that there really doesn't need to be any sides here. The fact is that Nato hadn't been arming Ukraine or expanding into Ukraine. Ukraine has been begging them to do this for years. They've been screaming for help and defensive weapons. We've been declining in order to not offend Mother Russia. Probably a mistake by the west. Well, the weapons are going to pour in now! It's Russia that is pushing the former eastern bloc countries towards the west, not Nato. If Mother Russia would just stop bullying other countries, there would be no conflict.

You do realize that 2014 coup was organized by the West?
So there was quite a bit of pushing and luring.

I personally don't care about Ukraine in NATO. Just pay $250bil they owe to Russia and you can have it (Except Crimea of course).
You can have Belarus as well, after you pay back their accumulated debt.
It's about money for me at this point. Actually, it's always been about money for me.
In fact it's about money for everybody. Ukraine does not want to pay back. West wants Russia to pay Ukrainian regime for nothing because they themselves are not willing to pay. It's allways about money.

 

[Elixir]

They've been screaming for help and defensive weapons. We've been declining in order to not offend Mother Russia. Probably a mistake by the west.

Ya think?
Now we have Pootey all full of himself, telling other sovereign nations what associations they may or may not form.
We don’t even bat an eyelash when he whines about “NATO on our doorstep” and “”Ukrainian aggression”, despite the patent absurdity of such complaints.
Of course when Ukraine joins NATO there will be one more NATO Country bordering Russia. But after Russia invades Ukraine, there will be THREE additional NATO Countries on its border. So that’s a false pretext. It’s an expansionist land grab, plain and simple. Pootey is trying to make it sound justified on the grounds that everyone isn’t doing what he tells them to.
Fuck Putin, and fuck his Soviet ambitions.

 

[barbos]

If Putin attacks in the next few weeks, the west was right. Correct?

The West will be right no matter what. The West is always right, cause it's West!

Well duh.

To be fair, Russia has rarely had a golden touch. Wherever they place influence, things become gray. Where as the United States, any third world nation we expand capitalism to becomes a darker shade of red. But at least they have open markets... kind of.

I am not sure what is worse red or grey.

It is funny, in a sort of way that Russia and the US have literally ruined the lives of millions, killing hundreds of thousands, in a show of penis length against one another. The US jeopardized the lives of millions to ensure the safety of corporate holdings in Central/South America. There certainly is a glossing over the truth when regarding American influence of other nations.

And Russian/France&England paranoia of each other has been endemic for over a century.

Well, The difference is, Russian paranoia is justified more. After all, GB and France invaded Crimea just because they thought Russia was too big. I thought irony of the present moment would not be lost in the West, I was wrong.