How should west respond to potential (likely) Russian invasion of Ukraine?

[Elixir]

Yes you do

Sorry you can't tell.

 

[barbos]

Yes you do

No, I don't contradict myself.

 

[barbos]

The guy

Michael Bohm - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

the show itself

Time Will Tell (talk show) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

you can watch it on youtube
"good" guys on the left side, "bad" guys on the right and in the center (show hosts)

 

[Elixir]

Too damn funny.
An opinion editor for Moscow Times is Barbos’ source.

But rest assured, he isn’t constantly exposed to pootey propaganda.

 

[barbos]

Too damn funny.
An opinion editor for Moscow Times is Barbos’ source.

But rest assured, he isn’t constantly exposed to pootey propaganda.

Your incoherent ramblings are becoming annoying.
He is not my source, he is an illustration of my claim that Russian political shows present people with alternative view points. The guy is an american
Other guys on his side are ukrainians.

So find me one occasion when american political show had a pro-Russian guest.
Just one time would be great.

 

[Elixir]

Your incoherent ramblings are becoming annoying.

You're annoyed because I am telling the truth.
You sound like Trump railing against the Stolen Election.

So find me one occasion when american political show had a pro-Russian guest.
Just one time would be great.

Have you never heard of Paul Manafort?
Can you say "Mike Flynn"? (Seen him pushing his pro-Russian agenda on CNN, MSNBC AND FOX)
How about Dana Rohrabacher? (That's three right off the top of my head. I can see the faces of others but I forget their names)

Sorry little buddy - during the Trump years, you couldn't swing a dead cat anywhere near the White House without hitting a Russian.
And half of them were elbowing each other to get on any TV that would have them.
I have to hand it to Russia - they sure know how to keep their little agitators in the dark.

 

[Copernicus]

Although barbos claims not to watch Russian TV, he gets most of his news from the internet, which can display Russian TV shows. He will sometimes post news here from Russian TV channels, so he obviously does monitor them.

I've gotten the same story from right wingers in the US who brag about never watching Fox News, even though they post Fox News stories they've seen on the internet. They just don't count it as watching news on TV.

 

[Copernicus]

Ukrainian President Zelensky has predicted that Russia may try to take Kharkiv first, given the fact that this city of a million people has a large population of Russian speakers with family ties to Russia. This is also the city of Yevheniy Murayev, who was named by the UK as one possible Ukrainian that the Kremlin might try to install at the head of a puppet regime in Kyiv.

See the Kyiv Post article: President Zelensky gives candid interview to Washington Post – says Russia might try to seize Kharkiv

 

[Loren Pechtel]

...
NATO is now nothing like it was formed and the U.S. should reconsider if it wants to remain. Given the current NATO obligations, the U.S. would be required to militarily support Tajikistan if they had a border conflict with Afghanistan because Tajikistan is a member of NATO and Afghanistan isn't.

By withdrawing from NATO, the U.S. could decide to help some country if we saw just reason but would not be obligated, under treaty, to do so

I think that you are wildly underestimating the ability of the EU, which is not a military alliance, to resist Russian expansionism, especially if they use the "divide and conquer" strategy that has worked so well since the time of Julius Caesar. Once Ukraine is absorbed, Moldova would probably also go, and pressure would be put on all of the former East European bloc to fall back in line with Russia. But for NATO membership, of course. And that's the point.

BTW, Tajikistan is not a member of NATO, and there would be no treaty obligation for the US to defend it if it were attacked by Afghanistan or anyone else. It is a member of the Russian-led CSTO, so Russia would be more likely to intervene.

Exactly. The point of NATO is to prevent a divide-and-conquer taking out the countries without nukes.

We have also seen that the European militaries leave a lot to be desired.

 

[SLD]

Russia can do whatever it wants within its own borders, including precautionary measures against fascist regime in Ukraine.

Ukraine isn't going to attack Russia. Your theory doesn't pass the laugh test.

Maybe, maybe not. But Georgia did.

Can you elaborate? How did Georgia attack Russia? I’m unaware of any source even claiming that Georgian troops crossed the border into Russia. Please enlighten us.

 

[Copernicus]

Russia can do whatever it wants within its own borders, including precautionary measures against fascist regime in Ukraine.

Ukraine isn't going to attack Russia. Your theory doesn't pass the laugh test.

Maybe, maybe not. But Georgia did.

Can you elaborate? How did Georgia attack Russia? I’m unaware of any source even claiming that Georgian troops crossed the border into Russia. Please enlighten us.

It will be interesting to learn what barbos makes of the conflict, but the fact is that Abkhazia and South Ossetia were recognized as Georgian territory before the war. Russian-backed separatist movements in both territories had been locked in hostilities with Georgia and were in a state of ceasefire. However, after Putin came to power and the government of Georgia took a decidedly pro-Western turn, the South Ossetians broke the ceasefire and began shelling Georgian territory. When Georgia sent troops in and captured most of the South Ossetian stronghold of Tskhinvali, Russia sent troops into the disputed territory. They also sent troops to back Abkhazian rebels, blockaded Georgia, and occupied some undisputed Georgian territory. IOW, Russia was quite well-prepared with a plan to take advantage of Georgian advances back into disputed territory, after South Ossetia suddenly broke the ceasefire. At no time did Georgia ever invade Russian territory, and Russia definitely did invade Georgia. See  Russo-Georgian War.

 

[Jarhyn]

[QUOTE="SLD, post: 975046, member: 226"]
[QUOTE="barbos, post: 974770, member: 224"]
[QUOTE="Loren Pechtel, post: 974542, member: 34"]
[QUOTE="barbos, post: 974098, member: 224"]
[QUOTE="Jarhyn, post: 974097, member: 377"]

[/QUOTE]

Please stop pinging me.

 

[barbos]

Russia can do whatever it wants within its own borders, including precautionary measures against fascist regime in Ukraine.

Ukraine isn't going to attack Russia. Your theory doesn't pass the laugh test.

Maybe, maybe not. But Georgia did.

Can you elaborate? How did Georgia attack Russia? I’m unaware of any source even claiming that Georgian troops crossed the border into Russia. Please enlighten us.

According to EU investigation Georgia attacked South Ossetia with russian peacekeepers in it.
Yes, EU concluded that Saakashvili started that war. And he did so expecting NATO would help. Of course you don't know any of that because your MSM says Russia invaded Georgia and that was bad.

 

[Copernicus]

[QUOTE="SLD, post: 975046, member: 226"]
[QUOTE="barbos, post: 974770, member: 224"]
[QUOTE="Loren Pechtel, post: 974542, member: 34"]
[QUOTE="barbos, post: 974098, member: 224"]
[QUOTE="Jarhyn, post: 974097, member: 377"]

[/QUOTE]

Please stop pinging me.View attachment 36875

What's this all about? My post looks perfectly normal. Maybe the FSB has misconfigured one of their monitoring tools and it spewed this out on your screen when barbos looked at it.

 

[barbos]

Can you say "Mike Flynn"? (Seen him pushing his pro-Russian agenda on CNN, MSNBC AND FOX)

I said russian dude and someone who is actually not deranged idiot who probably would not be able to find Russia on a map. Pozner for example.

 

[Jarhyn]

[QUOTE="SLD, post: 975046, member: 226"]
[QUOTE="barbos, post: 974770, member: 224"]
[QUOTE="Loren Pechtel, post: 974542, member: 34"]
[QUOTE="barbos, post: 974098, member: 224"]
[QUOTE="Jarhyn, post: 974097, member: 377"]

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Please stop pinging me.View attachment 36875

What's this all about? My post looks perfectly normal. Maybe the FSB has misconfigured one of their monitoring tools and it spewed this out on your screen when barbos looked at it.

It is about me wanting to stop having a hidden quote of myself buried in your message chain that incessantly pings me whenever it gets quoted.

The image reveals how to fix that TalkFreethought style. Click the one in the corner, then the [ ].

 

[Copernicus]

According to EU investigation Georgia attacked South Ossetia with russian peacekeepers in it.
Yes, EU concluded that Saakashvili started that war. And he did so expecting NATO would help. Of course you don't know any of that because your MSM says Russia invaded Georgia and that was bad.

Barbos is correct about that EU report, but it also condemned Russia's response as unreasonable and a violation of international law. That is, the Georgian side used excessive force first, and then Russia showed up with an even more excessive response. So the EU report blamed Russia, as well, but Barbos left out that detail. However, the EU report took the beginning of hostilities to start on August 7 and apparently did not see anything suspicious in South Ossetia's shelling of Georgia on August 6, which provoked the Georgian response to it. If Russian advisors were indeed in South Ossetia on August 6, they were there on a peacekeeping mission, but did nothing to stop the rebels from breaking the ceasefire. Georgia's position, of course, is that the Russians had a hand in the attack as a provocation to give them an excuse to invade when Georgia inevitably counterattacked.

See Georgia started war with Russia: EU-backed report:

An independent report blamed Georgia on Wednesday for starting last year’s five-day war with Russia, but said Moscow’s military response went beyond reasonable limits and violated international law.

The report commissioned by the European Union said both sides had broken international humanitarian laws and found evidence of ethnic cleansing against ethnic Georgians during Russia’s intervention in the rebel province of South Ossetia.

See also:  Responsibility for the Russo-Georgian War

 

[Copernicus]

It is about me wanting to stop having a hidden quote of myself buried in your message chain that incessantly pings me whenever it gets quoted.

The image reveals how to fix that TalkFreethought style. Click the one in the corner, then the [ ].

Sorry, if I left those tags in, which were not visible to me when I posted. I did make an effort to clean up the excessive embedding of BBCode when I composed the post, but I may have missed some tags. Unfortunately, the timeout on editing is now in effect, so I can't go back to fix it.

 

[Jarhyn]

It is about me wanting to stop having a hidden quote of myself buried in your message chain that incessantly pings me whenever it gets quoted.

The image reveals how to fix that TalkFreethought style. Click the one in the corner, then the [ ].

Sorry, if I left those tags in, which were not visible to me when I posted. I did make an effort to clean up the excessive embedding of BBCode when I composed the post, but I may have missed some tags. Unfortunately, the timeout on editing is now in effect, so I can't go back to fix it.

Oh, I'm just salty because like, at first I was like "lol, this will be funny (and oh, it was!)" when the quote system was a little jankey and nobody knew how to work any of the interface but now I'm over that and just want people to know how to fix their quotes and stuff.

I love you and want you to thrive! This is all. Also, I'm prickly.

 

[Copernicus]

The US is now sending nonessential personnel home from its embassy in Kyiv as a precaution against Russia's threatened invasion.

US draws down Ukraine embassy presence as war fears mount​