How should west respond to potential (likely) Russian invasion of Ukraine?

[blastula]

The notorious serial killer Gravity claims another victim.

 

[TomC]

Sitting in the airliner

An Embraer Legacy seats maybe a dozen passengers; It's not really an "airliner", it's a business jet - You could as well call a small yacht an "ocean liner".

A business jet is a regional jet and, therefore, a small airliner. Your move now.

Show me Prig's body.
Until then, it's a rumor.
Tom

 

[bilby]

Sitting in the airliner

An Embraer Legacy seats maybe a dozen passengers; It's not really an "airliner", it's a business jet - You could as well call a small yacht an "ocean liner".

A business jet is a regional jet and, therefore, a small airliner. Your move now.

A small yacht can cross the Atlantic, and is therefore an ocean liner.

But to describe it thus would be highly misleading to most audiences.

 

[TomC]

Sitting in the airliner

An Embraer Legacy seats maybe a dozen passengers; It's not really an "airliner", it's a business jet - You could as well call a small yacht an "ocean liner".

A business jet is a regional jet and, therefore, a small airliner. Your move now.

A small yacht can cross the Atlantic, and is therefore an ocean liner.

But to describe it thus would be highly misleading to most audiences.

More to the point,
Plenty of people, including Prighozhin, have very good reasons to lie about him being aboard that plane.

So a few other people died. Who cares?
Tom

 

[Elixir]

Two Wagner planes, one shot down. Hmmm.

 

[Copernicus]

Sitting in the airliner

An Embraer Legacy seats maybe a dozen passengers; It's not really an "airliner", it's a business jet - You could as well call a small yacht an "ocean liner".

A business jet is a regional jet and, therefore, a small airliner. Your move now.

A small yacht can cross the Atlantic, and is therefore an ocean liner.

But to describe it thus would be highly misleading to most audiences.

I could checkmate you with Wikipedia:  Airliner

Regional airliners typically seat fewer than 100 passengers and may be powered by turbofans or turboprops. These airliners are the non-mainline counterparts to the larger aircraft operated by the major carriers, legacy carriers, and flag carriers, and are used to feed traffic into the large airline hubs. These regional routes then form the spokes of a hub-and-spoke air transport model.

However, despite the fact that the Embraer had a bona fide passenger list, we don't know that it was a commercial flight. The Embraer might have been privately owned. Until the news media sorts it out definitively, we won't know who won the semantic argument. Some folks here want to discuss the substantive bits of the news story, so I suppose we'll have to let them have their way.

 

[ZiprHead]

However, despite the fact that the Embraer had a bona fide passenger list, we don't know that it was a commercial flight. The Embraer might have been privately owned. Until the news media sorts it out definitively, we won't know who won the semantic argument. Some folks here want to discuss the substantive bits of the news story, so I suppose we'll have to let them have their way.

As I understand it. the plane belonged to Prigozhin.

 

[steve_bank]

Well, histrcally Russian aviation was not very safe to begin with...

 

[Copernicus]

However, despite the fact that the Embraer had a bona fide passenger list, we don't know that it was a commercial flight. The Embraer might have been privately owned. Until the news media sorts it out definitively, we won't know who won the semantic argument. Some folks here want to discuss the substantive bits of the news story, so I suppose we'll have to let them have their way.

As I understand it. the plane belonged to Prigozhin.

Yes, it was an Embraer Legacy 600, which belonged to Prigozhin's company. It can be configured as a standard regional airliner that can carry more passengers, but this one was likely modified for extended range and carried fewer passengers than when it is used as a commercial regional airliner. They add fuel tanks for the extended range. It isn't known whether the plane was brought down deliberately by sabotage, but a contract was put out on Prigozhin by members of Russia's elite within the past few weeks.

See:

Yevgeny Prigozhin: 'Ten killed' in private jet crash in Russia with Wagner boss on board​

From the Wikipedia page on the Embraer Legacy 600:

On the 23rd of August 2023, an Embraer Legacy 600 jet belonging to the Wagner Group (registered RA-02795[11]) crashed in a field near Kuzhenkino, Tver Region, Russia. Three crew members and seven passengers, including Dmitry Utkin and Yevgeny Prigozhin, are reported in media sources as dead (including by the Russian Aviation Authority.)[12]

 

[SLD]

In other news, the former general in charge in Ukraine also died after a "long fall" . . . errr, illness.

https://www.cnn.com/2023/08/17/europe/russian-general-gennady-zhidko-death-intl/?dicbo=v2-AnFQTOZ&hpt=ob_blogfooterold

Keep killing 'em puty! That's the way to build loyalty and trust.

 

[TV and credit cards]

Russian Helicopter Pilot Defects in Astonishing Saga Worthy of Hollywood

It now seems that earlier reports that the crew of a Russian Mi-8 helicopter became lost and landed at a Ukrainian airfield by mistake concealed a far more surprising narrative.

www.kyivpost.com

 

[ZiprHead]

Seen elsewhere:

Vladimir Putin's New Autobiography - Windows Of Opportunity

 

[Ford]

Seen elsewhere:

Vladimir Putin's New Autobiography - Windows Of Opportunity

In all - or at least most - seriousness...

Wagner was IIRC the most effective fighting force in Ukraine. While Vlad's ignorant of their situation conscripts were getting mowed down, Wagner guys - while they were being misused horribly - actually got shit done.

If Russia needed to overcome those pesky Ukrainians defending their territory, they'd send in Wagner to push things over the edge. Now? After a little minor coup attempt Vlad has shuffled off most of Wagner to theaters a continent or two away and decapitated the one unit that wasn't completely fucking things up. Couple that with the "any general who dares question me will find out how gravity works" approach, and I'm beginning to wonder if Putin is just on a national suicide mission with this whole "Ukraine is and always will be part of Russia" campaign.

By the way, where's Barbos?

 

[Elixir]

Barbos should be fine. He’s a dependable fount of Putinese propaganda, and rarely paints the experience of being Russian as less than idyllic, the society as civil, happy and of diverse opinion… what more could be asked. Hope he didn’t try to hop a ride to St Pete.

 

[steve_bank]

If Mel Brooks was still making movies I'd love to see him parody Putin.

Or the Three Stooges or the Marx Brothers.

 

[Patooka]

If Mel Brooks was still making movies I'd love to see him parody Putin.

Or the Three Stooges or the Marx Brothers.

Matt Lucas from Little Britain could do it.

 

[DrZoidberg]

What a sudden an unexpected accident. Nobody saw that coming. Putin is such a stereotype. He's now more Blodeldt than Hitler

 

[TV and credit cards]

Seen elsewhere:

Vladimir Putin's New Autobiography - Windows Of Opportunity

In all - or at least most - seriousness...

Wagner was IIRC the most effective fighting force in Ukraine. While Vlad's ignorant of their situation conscripts were getting mowed down, Wagner guys - while they were being misused horribly - actually got shit done.

If Russia needed to overcome those pesky Ukrainians defending their territory, they'd send in Wagner to push things over the edge. Now? After a little minor coup attempt Vlad has shuffled off most of Wagner to theaters a continent or two away and decapitated the one unit that wasn't completely fucking things up. Couple that with the "any general who dares question me will find out how gravity works" approach, and I'm beginning to wonder if Putin is just on a national suicide mission with this whole "Ukraine is and always will be part of Russia" campaign.

By the way, where's Barbos?

Loyalty over competency. An autocrat’s worst friend.

 

[TV and credit cards]

Ukrainian forces pushing through Robotyne in an effort towards Tokmak. The M14 highway that runs through Melitopol, Russia needs to maintain as their supply route is nearly within range. Every meter counts now. It's said the most difficult defensive barriers have been broken through. Perhaps Ukrainian forces can advance more quickly now that this has happened. Russia is laterally moving troops around in an effort to stop Ukraine's progress.

Ukraine Counter-Offensive Update for August 25: ‘Verge of Breakthrough’

Daring amphibious raid undertaken to knock out Russian radars on Crimea – 30 Russians dead, Ukraine no casualties; Commander-in-Chief optimistic about Ukrainian momentum near Robotyne.

www.kyivpost.com

Ukraine — Victory Is Closer Than You Think

Ukraine’s counteroffensive is making substantial progress. Russia’s generals will know this, even if the West doesn’t.

cepa.org

Ukraine breaks through first line of Russian defense – U.S. Joint Chiefs chair Gen. Milley

Ukraine's counteroffensive is bloody and slow, but the Ukrainian Armed Forces have crossed the first line of Russian defense, US Joint Chiefs of Staff chair, General Mark Milley said in an interview with Al-Mamlaka channel on Aug. 25.

english.nv.ua

 

[barbos]

Ukrainian forces pushing through Robotyne

Some selective reporting, eh?
You were supposed to get to Crimea border in 3 weeks (just ask Admiral Nuland), it's been 3 months and you occupied couple of villages in the gray zone ..... temporary. And lost 40 thousands.