How should west respond to potential (likely) Russian invasion of Ukraine?

[barbos]

Gorbachev wanted to be friends with West but US did not like it. To whom would they show their military might?

Well, that's not entirely correct. Gorbi had been out by the time West decided screw Russia.
It was Eltsin era.

Really? If a Gorbachev were in power, there’d be no difference?

Gorbachev wanted to be friends with West but US did not like it. To whom would they show their military might?

And this justifies war?

NATO expansion and proxy aggressions justify the war.

 

[barbos]

Expansion of enemy influence. That’s a new excuse to invade a country that I hadn’t heard before!! How would you recommend the US lower its “influence” so as to not so offend our Soviet comrades?

That is a fact of life. Expansion of Chinese influence in Djibouti, Maldives, Pakistan, Sri Lanka, Myanmar, and Red Army moves in Tibet, worries India. In reply, we are trying to improve the capabilities of our armed forces. India stands fourth in the list of countries with strong armies after US, Russia, China.

Why do you have an army? You should just surrender like you are saying Ukraine should do. That's the path to peace. Your army will just make China uneasy and they will have to respond. See how easy it is to have peace and save lots of money too?

India has thousands and thousands of years of history.
Ukraine had had 25 years of history when they decided it would be a good idea to terrorize their own russian population.
And during all these 25 years they were receiving $10bil/year from ..... Russia. How dumb these people are?
Do they deserve to rule themselves?
I repeat:
1. 25% of the population are flat out russians and don't want anything ukrainian.
2. Another 25% don't speak ukrainian and frankly don't give a slightest fuck about Ukraine.
3. $10bil/year from Russia.

 

[Cheerful Charlie]

Gorbachev wanted to be friends with West but US did not like it. To whom would they show their military might?

Well, that's not entirely correct. Gorbi had been out by the time West decided screw Russia.
It was Eltsin era.

Really? If a Gorbachev were in power, there’d be no difference?

Gorbachev wanted to be friends with West but US did not like it. To whom would they show their military might?

And this justifies war?

NATO expansion and proxy aggressions justify the war.

Russia's expansionism and attacks on neighbors has caused NATO to expand. and caused many NATO nations to start rebuilding their military ability.

 

[Cheerful Charlie]

Expansion of enemy influence. That’s a new excuse to invade a country that I hadn’t heard before!! How would you recommend the US lower its “influence” so as to not so offend our Soviet comrades?

That is a fact of life. Expansion of Chinese influence in Djibouti, Maldives, Pakistan, Sri Lanka, Myanmar, and Red Army moves in Tibet, worries India. In reply, we are trying to improve the capabilities of our armed forces. India stands fourth in the list of countries with strong armies after US, Russia, China.

Why do you have an army? You should just surrender like you are saying Ukraine should do. That's the path to peace. Your army will just make China uneasy and they will have to respond. See how easy it is to have peace and save lots of money too?

India has thousands and thousands of years of history.
Ukraine had had 25 years of history when they decided it would be a good idea to terrorize their own russian population.
And during all these 25 years they were receiving $10bil/year from ..... Russia. How dumb these people are?
Do they deserve to rule themselves?
I repeat:
1. 25% of the population are flat out russians and don't want anything ukrainian.
2. Another 25% don't speak ukrainian and frankly don't give a slightest fuck about Ukraine.
3. $10bil/year from Russia.

Russia has been murdering Ukrainians ever since the days of Stalin. Holodomor. Evil. wicked Russians.

 

[Harry Bosch]

Now you’re facing devastating economic sanctions and a well supplied and battle tested Ukrainian Army.

LOL, OK.

And sorry to disappoint you they are not well supplied. They use soviet era weapons.
They were supplied with few Turkish attack UAVs (useful against islamic terrorists only) and bunch of american anti-tank missiles with expired warranties.
Ukraine has no meaningful Air Power and very limited AA capabilities (Soviet Era crap)
Their Army will collapse faster than Afghan Army.

Georgian Army was well supplied and trained before they attacked South Ossetia.
But they lost to a weak russian army. Since then russian army was better maintained.

I'd be a little careful here. The Ukrainians are better armed than what you think. But the larger issue here is that they are motivated. Their back is up against the wall. Russians want to invade in order to provide a land bridge to the area where their officers like to vacation. The Ukrainians are fighting for their homes. Russia will take the country eventually. But it will be expensive for them.

What are you smoking?
Nobody is going to invade them, but if it happens, there will be no war.
Motivated my ass. They have maybe couple of battalions of nazis who are motivated.
The rest will not fight. Georgians were motivated and lost to ... a much less equipped russian army. Russian army has changed a lot since then, they have shitload of new shiny toys and practiced in Syria.

Looking at some old posts. This one really aged well. There’d be no invasion and if there was they won’t fight.

I see Putin is now vowing to fight it out to the bitter end and let Russians die needlessly until he wins, using his greater population to win a war of attrition. Might work. Will take only a decade or two at the present rate of conquest. Good luck with that, Barbos. Pooty will soon come to recruit your 60+ year old butt.

it aged well. US started this war, not Russia. And Ukrainians are dying in great numbers. Some becasue of russian Army, some on mine fields trying to pass Ukraine-West europe Borders.

New Ukrainians recruits being trained by NATO in Ukraine:

You were totally wrong! You predicted that Russia would not invade. Your words. Then you predicted that even if Russians did, that the Ukrainians fight back. 2.5 years later, and Ukraine continues to fight back! Your side has only conquered 20% of Ukraine. Ukraine has stood up to a bully that is 10 times its size. Incredibly impressive.

 

[Harry Bosch]

Nato expansion is dangerous. However, I don't know how else to stop Russian imperialism.

You are not making any sense. There is no such thing a russian imperialism. There is only neocon imperialism.
All you had to do was to not expand NATO and there would have been no war. Of course scum which runs US/EU had a goal to start a war with Russia (and win it). They started it all right, but they are losing it.

Russian imperialists have attacked countries that are not in Nato. They avoid Nato countries. This is the simple reason why countries want to join Nato. If Russia truly wanted to stop Nato expansion it would be very simple. Just simply stop being such assholes! Stop bombing your neighbors. Stop looting their goods, stealing their land, kidnapping their children.

 

[barbos]

Gorbachev wanted to be friends with West but US did not like it. To whom would they show their military might?

Well, that's not entirely correct. Gorbi had been out by the time West decided screw Russia.
It was Eltsin era.

Really? If a Gorbachev were in power, there’d be no difference?

Gorbachev wanted to be friends with West but US did not like it. To whom would they show their military might?

And this justifies war?

NATO expansion and proxy aggressions justify the war.

Russia's expansionism and attacks on neighbors has caused NATO to expand. and caused many NATO nations to start rebuilding their military ability.

Nope.

 

[barbos]

Nato expansion is dangerous. However, I don't know how else to stop Russian imperialism.

You are not making any sense. There is no such thing a russian imperialism. There is only neocon imperialism.
All you had to do was to not expand NATO and there would have been no war. Of course scum which runs US/EU had a goal to start a war with Russia (and win it). They started it all right, but they are losing it.

Russian imperialists have attacked countries that are not in Nato. They avoid Nato countries. This is the simple reason why countries want to join Nato. If Russia truly wanted to stop Nato expansion it would be very simple. Just simply stop being such assholes! Stop bombing your neighbors. Stop looting their goods, stealing their land, kidnapping their children.

Nope

 

[barbos]

Now you’re facing devastating economic sanctions and a well supplied and battle tested Ukrainian Army.

LOL, OK.

And sorry to disappoint you they are not well supplied. They use soviet era weapons.
They were supplied with few Turkish attack UAVs (useful against islamic terrorists only) and bunch of american anti-tank missiles with expired warranties.
Ukraine has no meaningful Air Power and very limited AA capabilities (Soviet Era crap)
Their Army will collapse faster than Afghan Army.

Georgian Army was well supplied and trained before they attacked South Ossetia.
But they lost to a weak russian army. Since then russian army was better maintained.

I'd be a little careful here. The Ukrainians are better armed than what you think. But the larger issue here is that they are motivated. Their back is up against the wall. Russians want to invade in order to provide a land bridge to the area where their officers like to vacation. The Ukrainians are fighting for their homes. Russia will take the country eventually. But it will be expensive for them.

What are you smoking?
Nobody is going to invade them, but if it happens, there will be no war.
Motivated my ass. They have maybe couple of battalions of nazis who are motivated.
The rest will not fight. Georgians were motivated and lost to ... a much less equipped russian army. Russian army has changed a lot since then, they have shitload of new shiny toys and practiced in Syria.

Looking at some old posts. This one really aged well. There’d be no invasion and if there was they won’t fight.

I see Putin is now vowing to fight it out to the bitter end and let Russians die needlessly until he wins, using his greater population to win a war of attrition. Might work. Will take only a decade or two at the present rate of conquest. Good luck with that, Barbos. Pooty will soon come to recruit your 60+ year old butt.

it aged well. US started this war, not Russia. And Ukrainians are dying in great numbers. Some becasue of russian Army, some on mine fields trying to pass Ukraine-West europe Borders.

New Ukrainians recruits being trained by NATO in Ukraine:

You were totally wrong! You predicted that Russia would not invade. Your words. Then you predicted that even if Russians did, that the Ukrainians fight back. 2.5 years later, and Ukraine continues to fight back! Your side has only conquered 20% of Ukraine. Ukraine has stood up to a bully that is 10 times its size. Incredibly impressive.

I did not know proving random internet user being being wrong was a driving force behind US foreign policy.
Let say I WAS wrong? so what?
You were wrong million times more.

 

[barbos]

Just simply stop being such assholes! Stop bombing your neighbors. Stop looting their goods, stealing their land, kidnapping their children.

Ukraine as a state must be destroyed, All nazis and top of their government executed for war crimes.
People must go through denazification and reeducation process and integrated into Russia.
Russia can not allow this kind of shit on its border regardless of their claims of sovereignty or anything. They lost all their rights for the statehood which were a communist era fiction to begin with. Ukraine is Russia, has always been Russia and will be Russia. There is simply no reason for that entity to exist.
I am sick and tired of "ukrainism". You are lucky that I am not president of Russia. Of course, if I had been, then russian establishment would have stopped me.

 

[Harry Bosch]

Just simply stop being such assholes! Stop bombing your neighbors. Stop looting their goods, stealing their land, kidnapping their children.

Ukraine as a state must be destroyed, All nazis and top of their government executed for war crimes.
People must go through denazification and reeducation process and integrated into Russia.
Russia can not allow this scam on its border regardless of their claims of sovereignty or anything. They lost all their rights for the statehood which were a communist era fiction to begin with. Ukraine is Russia, has always been Russia and will be Russia. There is simply no reason for that entity to exist.

Yea, I know that this is how you feel, and probably most of Russia. No need to tell me. No need to tell the Ukranians. They know that Russia does not want peace. You and I need to convince aupmanyav and others in the world who do not understand the fundamental nature that is driving this war. Russia does not want peace; they want a conquered and enslaved Ukraine. Help me spread this word.

 

[Harry Bosch]

Nato expansion is dangerous. However, I don't know how else to stop Russian imperialism.

You are not making any sense. There is no such thing a russian imperialism. There is only neocon imperialism.
All you had to do was to not expand NATO and there would have been no war. Of course scum which runs US/EU had a goal to start a war with Russia (and win it). They started it all right, but they are losing it.

Russian imperialists have attacked countries that are not in Nato. They avoid Nato countries. This is the simple reason why countries want to join Nato. If Russia truly wanted to stop Nato expansion it would be very simple. Just simply stop being such assholes! Stop bombing your neighbors. Stop looting their goods, stealing their land, kidnapping their children.

Nope

What Nato country has Russia invaded? Putler is not dumb as a table (if you don't understand this reference let me know).

 

[barbos]

Nato expansion is dangerous. However, I don't know how else to stop Russian imperialism.

You are not making any sense. There is no such thing a russian imperialism. There is only neocon imperialism.
All you had to do was to not expand NATO and there would have been no war. Of course scum which runs US/EU had a goal to start a war with Russia (and win it). They started it all right, but they are losing it.

Russian imperialists have attacked countries that are not in Nato. They avoid Nato countries. This is the simple reason why countries want to join Nato. If Russia truly wanted to stop Nato expansion it would be very simple. Just simply stop being such assholes! Stop bombing your neighbors. Stop looting their goods, stealing their land, kidnapping their children.

Nope

What Nato country has Russia invaded?

Ukraine

 

[Harry Bosch]

Nato expansion is dangerous. However, I don't know how else to stop Russian imperialism.

You are not making any sense. There is no such thing a russian imperialism. There is only neocon imperialism.
All you had to do was to not expand NATO and there would have been no war. Of course scum which runs US/EU had a goal to start a war with Russia (and win it). They started it all right, but they are losing it.

Russian imperialists have attacked countries that are not in Nato. They avoid Nato countries. This is the simple reason why countries want to join Nato. If Russia truly wanted to stop Nato expansion it would be very simple. Just simply stop being such assholes! Stop bombing your neighbors. Stop looting their goods, stealing their land, kidnapping their children.

Nope

What Nato country has Russia invaded?

Ukraine

Ukraine is not in nato.

 

[barbos]

Just simply stop being such assholes! Stop bombing your neighbors. Stop looting their goods, stealing their land, kidnapping their children.

Ukraine as a state must be destroyed, All nazis and top of their government executed for war crimes.
People must go through denazification and reeducation process and integrated into Russia.
Russia can not allow this scam on its border regardless of their claims of sovereignty or anything. They lost all their rights for the statehood which were a communist era fiction to begin with. Ukraine is Russia, has always been Russia and will be Russia. There is simply no reason for that entity to exist.

Yea, I know that this is how you feel, and probably most of Russia. No need to tell me. No need to tell the Ukranians. They know that Russia does not want peace. You and I need to convince aupmanyav and others in the world who do not understand the fundamental nature that is driving this war. Russia does not want peace; they want a conquered and enslaved Ukraine. Help me spread this word.

I don't care what nazi idiots think. I don't want peace with them. They all must die.

 

[barbos]

Nato expansion is dangerous. However, I don't know how else to stop Russian imperialism.

You are not making any sense. There is no such thing a russian imperialism. There is only neocon imperialism.
All you had to do was to not expand NATO and there would have been no war. Of course scum which runs US/EU had a goal to start a war with Russia (and win it). They started it all right, but they are losing it.

Russian imperialists have attacked countries that are not in Nato. They avoid Nato countries. This is the simple reason why countries want to join Nato. If Russia truly wanted to stop Nato expansion it would be very simple. Just simply stop being such assholes! Stop bombing your neighbors. Stop looting their goods, stealing their land, kidnapping their children.

Nope

What Nato country has Russia invaded?

Ukraine

Ukraine is not in nato.

They were a de-facto NATO members (gross violation of their own constitution)

 

[Harry Bosch]

Just simply stop being such assholes! Stop bombing your neighbors. Stop looting their goods, stealing their land, kidnapping their children.

Ukraine as a state must be destroyed, All nazis and top of their government executed for war crimes.
People must go through denazification and reeducation process and integrated into Russia.
Russia can not allow this scam on its border regardless of their claims of sovereignty or anything. They lost all their rights for the statehood which were a communist era fiction to begin with. Ukraine is Russia, has always been Russia and will be Russia. There is simply no reason for that entity to exist.

Yea, I know that this is how you feel, and probably most of Russia. No need to tell me. No need to tell the Ukranians. They know that Russia does not want peace. You and I need to convince aupmanyav and others in the world who do not understand the fundamental nature that is driving this war. Russia does not want peace; they want a conquered and enslaved Ukraine. Help me spread this word.

I don't care what nazi idiots think. I don't want peace with them.

Now you think that Indians are nazis?!

 

[barbos]

Just simply stop being such assholes! Stop bombing your neighbors. Stop looting their goods, stealing their land, kidnapping their children.

Ukraine as a state must be destroyed, All nazis and top of their government executed for war crimes.
People must go through denazification and reeducation process and integrated into Russia.
Russia can not allow this scam on its border regardless of their claims of sovereignty or anything. They lost all their rights for the statehood which were a communist era fiction to begin with. Ukraine is Russia, has always been Russia and will be Russia. There is simply no reason for that entity to exist.

Yea, I know that this is how you feel, and probably most of Russia. No need to tell me. No need to tell the Ukranians. They know that Russia does not want peace. You and I need to convince aupmanyav and others in the world who do not understand the fundamental nature that is driving this war. Russia does not want peace; they want a conquered and enslaved Ukraine. Help me spread this word.

I don't care what nazi idiots think. I don't want peace with them.

Now you think that Indians are nazis?!

I don't care, all nazis must die, americans included.

 

[Elixir]

Russia is far away and concentrating on Europe.

At the moment.
But you’re probably right; Putin will die long before he can get his hooks into India. And Russia will be more concerned with recovering from the damage he did than with conquest - at least for a decade or two.
Meanwhile, you act unconcerned, leaving others to deal with the threat, smug in the satisfaction that you don’t have to.
That is not likely to turn out well.

 

[ZiprHead]

It was (reduction of rival’s power) and it wasn’t (more instability). But there was no way to stop the USSR from crumbling. So what exactly do you think was possible and effective?

Gorbachev wanted some money. US could have given it. Then US would have required less money to spend on its armed forces with a friendly Russia. Perhaps the nuclear pile reduction would have been meaningful. But no, they were the international police. Report: Russia 5,889; US 5,224.

Which countries have nuclear weapons?

There are 9 countries armed with nuclear warheads. Find out which countries have nuclear weapons still and what this could mean for everyone.

www.icanw.org

Russia was given money after the fall of the USSR.

December 1990: Bush Extends Economic Assistance to Soviet Union
President Bush announced in December 1990 that he would waive the Jackson-Vanik Amendment with respect to the Soviet Union for 6 months. He also extended $1 billion in agricultural credits in response to food shortages. Bush also offered to seek observer status for the Soviet Union with the World Bank and the International Monetary Fund. In June 1991, President Bush extended the waiver of the Jackson-Vanik Amendment for a year.

December 1990: Gorbachev Won Nobel Peace Prize
The Nobel Committee awarded Soviet leader Mikhail Gorbachev the 1990 Nobel Peace Prize for agreeing to arms control measures, pulling troops out of Eastern Europe, and moving to end the Soviet intervention in Afghanistan.

And

July 1993: Additional Economic Assistance to Russia
At the Economic Summit Meeting in Tokyo on July 9-10, 1993, the leaders of the G-7 countries expressed their support for the reform process in Russia and Ukraine. The Summit's Economic Declaration called for a $3 billion Special Privatization and Restructuring Program, with a Support Implementation Group in Moscow. The United States announced a bilateral aid program of $1.8 billion for Russia and the former Soviet republics.