How should west respond to Russian invasion of Ukraine?

[Tigers!]

If it is a secret how did Mercouris find out?

What is a secret?

The secret plot to destroy Russia. That is the title of the clip.

 

[Tigers!]

Russian daily casualties highest since war began

The Ukrainian General Staff recorded 2,090 Russian casualties, killed and wounded, in the twenty-four hours to 28 September, the highest daily total it has reported since the full-scale invasion began in February 2022.

ukdefencejournal.org.uk

Such a senseless waste of life.

They were just going to die anyway, probably in a gutter somewhere with a bottle of vodka.

Ukraine rather they died in that gutter.

Such a world we live in.

 

[barbos]

If it is a secret how did Mercouris find out?

What is a secret?

The secret plot to destroy Russia. That is the title of the clip.

It is not secret.

 

[barbos]

WW2 started not in Poland. It started in Chechoslovakia, where both Germany and (!!!!) Poland invaded and split Chechoslovakia between themselves. With Poland taking mostly polish part of Chechoslovakia and Germany taking german Sudetes.
Soviet Union offered protection to Chechoslovakia but Poland and the rest of the West (England&France) refused to let Russian forces to pass. Molotov-Ribbentrope pact gave Russia what Russia lost as a result of Revolution, that is Western Ukraine part of Poland which it aquired in WW1. So you set the rules of the conduct with polish-german invasion of Checkoslovakia. Stalin simply played by these rules and took what he thouhgt was rightly his.
Poles should just shut the fuck up about Molotov-Ribentrope

Historical rubbish but no surprise, considering the source. Czechoslovakia was carved up because Western Europe signed it away to Adolf Hitler.

Yes, Poland took part of Checkoslovakia because it happened to be populated by poles.
And Stalin took part of Poland which was illegally acquired by Poland and happened to be populated by ukraininans.

 

[barbos]

Lest we forget .... this is russia ...

in 1920 soviet russia signed peace treaties with Estonia, Latvia, and Lithuania

in 1932 the soviets signed the Soviet-Finnish non-aggression pact

in 1932 the soviets signed the Soviet-Polish non-aggression pact

in 1939, following a pact with the Nazis, the soviets invaded Poland and Finland

in 1940, the soviets invaded and annexed Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania

in 1941, the soviets signed the Soviet-Japanese Neutrality Pact, promising to "respect the territorial integrity and inviolability" of Japan

in 1945, the soviets signed the UN Charter, endorsing a ban on the threat or use of force against other nations

in August 1945, the soviets attacked Japan

in 1956, the soviets declared that socialist states' relations rest on "noninterference in one another's domestic affairs." A few days later ...

in 1956, soviet tanks crushed Hungary

in 1968, soviet-led Warsaw Pact forces invaded Czechoslovakia

in 1975, the soviets signed the Helsinki Final Act, committing themselves to the non-use of force, the inviolability of borders, territorial integrity and non-intervention.

in 1979, the soviets invaded Afghanistan

in 1991, russia joined the Alma-Ata Declaration recognising the territorial integrity of the former soviet republics and the inviolability of their existing borders.

in 1992 russian forces seized and occupied Transnistria in Moldova

in 1994, russia signed the Budapest Memorandum, explicitly promising to respect Ukraine's independence, sovereignty and existing borders and to refrain from the threat or use of force against it

in 1997, russia signed the Treaty of Friendship with Ukraine, recognising the inviolability of their existing borders

in 1999, russia committed at the OSCE Istanbul summit to withdraw its remaining forces from Moldova by the end of 2002. It did not

in 2003, russia signed a treaty formally establishing and recognising the russia-Ukraine state border

in 2008 russian forces invaded and occupied Georgian territory

in 2008, russia accepted the six-point Georgia ceasefire requiring russian forces to withdraw to the positions they held before hostilities. They did not

in 2008, Putin stated on German TV "Crimea is not a disputed territory"

in 2014 russia seized and annexed Crimea, Ukraine

in 2014, on the day he signed the treaty annexing Crimea, Putin stated Russia had no interest in any other region of Ukraine. Shortly after ...

in 2014 russia invaded eastern Ukraine and seized parts of Donbas

in 2015, Putin signed a declaration supporting the Minsk agreements, reaffirming Russian "full respect" for the sovereignty and territorial integrity of Ukraine

in 2022 russia launched a full-scale invasion of Ukraine

in 2022 russia passed constitutional laws annexing the Ukrainian regions of Donetsk, Kherson, Luhansk and Zaporizhzhia, including over 20,000 square kilometres its forces do not control

This is the country Trump wants Zelenskyy to "make a deal" with?

Yes, Russia, USSR and Russia again were remarkably soft and patient.

 

[Copernicus]

WW2 started not in Poland. It started in Chechoslovakia, where both Germany and (!!!!) Poland invaded and split Chechoslovakia between themselves. With Poland taking mostly polish part of Chechoslovakia and Germany taking german Sudetes.
Soviet Union offered protection to Chechoslovakia but Poland and the rest of the West (England&France) refused to let Russian forces to pass. Molotov-Ribbentrope pact gave Russia what Russia lost as a result of Revolution, that is Western Ukraine part of Poland which it aquired in WW1. So you set the rules of the conduct with polish-german invasion of Checkoslovakia. Stalin simply played by these rules and took what he thouhgt was rightly his.
Poles should just shut the fuck up about Molotov-Ribentrope

Historical rubbish but no surprise, considering the source. Czechoslovakia was carved up because Western Europe signed it away to Adolf Hitler.

Yes, Poland took part of Checkoslovakia because it happened to be populated by poles.

And it was wrong to have done that. Poles who persecuted the German-speaking residents of that area were also in the wrong.

And Stalin took part of Poland which was illegally acquired by Poland and happened to be populated by ukraininans.

False. Stalin engaged in blatant ethnic cleansing. He implemented his own brand of "Lebansraum", uprooting and deporting millions of people from their homelands to territories in the western portions of the new Soviet empire. The western and eastern borders of Poland were shifted west. German areas of Silesia were depopulated, and people from eastern areas of Poland were moved into those areas. The city of Breslau was depopulated of its German speaking residents and replaced with Poles from what is now western Ukraine. Polish residents of Lwow were moved into German territories, and Ukrainians were pushed into former Polish territories. Lwow, for example, became Ukrainian Lviv. In addition, Stalin had countless numbers of Poles and Ukrainians simply murdered. It was ethnic cleansing on a massive scale, and little different from what Hitler had planned to do in the opposite direction. Molotov, who toasted the partitioning of Poland with Nazi counterparts, was one of the architects of the genocidal Holodomor, which deliberately killed 3.5-5 million people through cruel mass starvation. Stalin was the Russian version of Hitler who did not lose WW2. He won it with the naive acquiescence of western allies.

 

[barbos]

WW2 started not in Poland. It started in Chechoslovakia, where both Germany and (!!!!) Poland invaded and split Chechoslovakia between themselves. With Poland taking mostly polish part of Chechoslovakia and Germany taking german Sudetes.
Soviet Union offered protection to Chechoslovakia but Poland and the rest of the West (England&France) refused to let Russian forces to pass. Molotov-Ribbentrope pact gave Russia what Russia lost as a result of Revolution, that is Western Ukraine part of Poland which it aquired in WW1. So you set the rules of the conduct with polish-german invasion of Checkoslovakia. Stalin simply played by these rules and took what he thouhgt was rightly his.
Poles should just shut the fuck up about Molotov-Ribentrope

Historical rubbish but no surprise, considering the source. Czechoslovakia was carved up because Western Europe signed it away to Adolf Hitler.

Yes, Poland took part of Checkoslovakia because it happened to be populated by poles.

And it was wrong to have done that. Poles who persecuted the German-speaking residents of that area were also in the wrong.

And Stalin took part of Poland which was illegally acquired by Poland and happened to be populated by ukraininans.

False. Stalin engaged in blatant ethnic cleansing. He implemented his own brand of "Lebansraum", uprooting and deporting millions of people from their homelands to territories in the western portions of the new Soviet empire. The western and eastern borders of Poland were shifted west. German areas of Silesia were depopulated, and people from eastern areas of Poland were moved into those areas. The city of Breslau was depopulated of its German speaking residents and replaced with Poles from what is now western Ukraine. Polish residents of Lwow were moved into German territories, and Ukrainians were pushed into former Polish territories. Lwow, for example, became Ukrainian Lviv. In addition, Stalin had countless numbers of Poles simply murdered. It was ethnic cleansing on a massive scale, and little different from what Hitler had planned to do in the opposite direction. Stalin was the Russian version of Hitler who did not lose WW2. He won it with the naive acquiescence of western allies.

Bullshit, Chezha and Poland are now free to give their terriory back to Germany.
Stalin is long dead and Putin himself mused the idea of giving Western Ukraine back to Poland-Hungary-Romania.
And no, you are not getting Kalinigrad back.

 

[Copernicus]

WW2 started not in Poland. It started in Chechoslovakia, where both Germany and (!!!!) Poland invaded and split Chechoslovakia between themselves. With Poland taking mostly polish part of Chechoslovakia and Germany taking german Sudetes.
Soviet Union offered protection to Chechoslovakia but Poland and the rest of the West (England&France) refused to let Russian forces to pass. Molotov-Ribbentrope pact gave Russia what Russia lost as a result of Revolution, that is Western Ukraine part of Poland which it aquired in WW1. So you set the rules of the conduct with polish-german invasion of Checkoslovakia. Stalin simply played by these rules and took what he thouhgt was rightly his.
Poles should just shut the fuck up about Molotov-Ribentrope

Historical rubbish but no surprise, considering the source. Czechoslovakia was carved up because Western Europe signed it away to Adolf Hitler.

Yes, Poland took part of Checkoslovakia because it happened to be populated by poles.

And it was wrong to have done that. Poles who persecuted the German-speaking residents of that area were also in the wrong.

And Stalin took part of Poland which was illegally acquired by Poland and happened to be populated by ukraininans.

False. Stalin engaged in blatant ethnic cleansing. He implemented his own brand of "Lebansraum", uprooting and deporting millions of people from their homelands to territories in the western portions of the new Soviet empire. The western and eastern borders of Poland were shifted west. German areas of Silesia were depopulated, and people from eastern areas of Poland were moved into those areas. The city of Breslau was depopulated of its German speaking residents and replaced with Poles from what is now western Ukraine. Polish residents of Lwow were moved into German territories, and Ukrainians were pushed into former Polish territories. Lwow, for example, became Ukrainian Lviv. In addition, Stalin had countless numbers of Poles simply murdered. It was ethnic cleansing on a massive scale, and little different from what Hitler had planned to do in the opposite direction. Stalin was the Russian version of Hitler who did not lose WW2. He won it with the naive acquiescence of western allies.

Bullshit, Chezha and Poland are now free to give their terriory back to Germany.

That would be idiotic. The chaos of trying to reverse what Stalin did would be unworkable, not to mention just as cruel. Stalin routinely moved populations around in territories under his domination, not caring a whit about the suffering that millions suffered under his brutal regime.

Stalin is long dead and Putin himself mused the idea of giving Western Ukraine back to Poland-Hungary-Romania.

Another moronic scheme that only a madman would think feasible. This irredentist nonsense is nothing new to fascist autocrats in Europe, who seem unable to think in any terms other than ethnic stereotypes for entire populations of people under their control.

And no, you are not getting Kalinigrad back.

No, of course not. Why restore Konigsberg to its former glory as a free Baltic city? This exposes the hypocrisy of your Russo-fascist pseudohistorical argument. You try to justify Russia's invasion of neighboring territories on historical grounds while simultaneously denying the right of others to retake their own ancestral lands.

 

[barbos]

Another moronic scheme that only a madman would think feasible. This irredentist nonsense is nothing new to fascist autocrats in Europe, who seem unable to think in any terms other than ethnic stereotypes for entire populations of people under their control.

Who said anything about moving people? Western Ukraine will be given to Poland with all its people. So poles can have their little empirre back.

No, of course not. Why restore Konigsberg to its former glory as a free Baltic city?

Euro-fashist glory. You seem to forget why it was taken from Germany

his exposes the hypocrisy of your Russo-fascist pseudohistorical argument.

No it does not, and there, Fashists are in EU

You try to justify Russia's invasion of neighboring territories on historical grounds

Sure, Crimea is a historical ukrainian land, sure.

 

[barbos]

AI Overview
Kaliningrad, formerly known as Königsberg and part of German East Prussia, was taken from Germany after World War II as a result of Allied agreements to punish Nazi aggression, shift Poland's borders westward, and secure a strategic ice-free Baltic port for the Soviet Union.

 

[barbos]

I don't understand why FPV drones is still a thing.
Here it seems russian soldiers shoot them with relative easer using ordinary guns.
With compurterized cameras it should be single shot activity.

 

[barbos]

LOL

 

[ZiprHead]

Estonia bans transit of russian and belorussian grain through its territory, as a response to the war on Ukraine.

 

[Copernicus]

Another moronic scheme that only a madman would think feasible. This irredentist nonsense is nothing new to fascist autocrats in Europe, who seem unable to think in any terms other than ethnic stereotypes for entire populations of people under their control.

Who said anything about moving people? Western Ukraine will be given to Poland with all its people. So poles can have their little empirre back.

You talked about giving territory back to Germany that had been repopulated with Poles moved into that area from former areas of eastern Poland by Stalin. Shifting borders to historical borders would be moronic and incredibly disruptive to the current residents of those areas. Nobody wants that kind of irredentist bullshit except cryptofascists that use pseudohistorical arguments to start irredentist wars. That kind of thinking is what got Putin and other right wing Russian ethno-imperialists in their current mess.

No, of course not. Why restore Konigsberg to its former glory as a free Baltic city?

Euro-fashist glory. You seem to forget why it was taken from Germany

It was taken from Germany to satisfy Stalin's desire to expand Russian territory. Western allies naively agree to Stalin's demand to sanction Soviet occupation and dominance over Eastern Europe. That mistake led to the establishment of the so-called Iron Curtain and decades of Cold War oppression by the Soviet Union. It wasn't until the 1990s that former Warsaw Pact nations were able to escape Russian domination and join NATO for protection against Russian expansionism. Ukraine was denied NATO membership in exchange for giving up its nuclear arsenal to the Russian Federation and an agreement from Russia that it would respect Ukraine's sovereign territory. We've seen how well that worked for them.

his exposes the hypocrisy of your Russo-fascist pseudohistorical argument.

No it does not, and there, Fashists are in EU

Yes, and many of them are crypto-fascists in that they reject the fascist label but embrace their behavior. This includes the current leadership of Russia.

You try to justify Russia's invasion of neighboring territories on historical grounds

Sure, Crimea is a historical ukrainian land, sure.

No, it was Ottoman Turkish historically for almost 300 years. It became an independent Khanate in 1774 with Russian backing, and Russia annexed it and absorbed it into its own empire in 1787. The Bolshevik regime reconquered the territory in 1921 and made it an autonomous Soviet Socialist Republic. Khrushchev shifted it into Ukraine in 1954, where it remained until Russia invaded Ukraine and seized it in 1914. No clear motive for the Soviet move was ever revealed, but it looks like that made more sense, given its territorial, agricultural, and economic ties to Ukraine.

 

[robnisch]

Another moronic scheme that only a madman would think feasible. This irredentist nonsense is nothing new to fascist autocrats in Europe, who seem unable to think in any terms other than ethnic stereotypes for entire populations of people under their control.

Who said anything about moving people? Western Ukraine will be given to Poland with all its people. So poles can have their little empirre back.

You talked about giving territory back to Germany that had been repopulated with Poles moved into that area from former areas of eastern Poland by Stalin. Shifting borders to historical borders would be moronic and incredibly disruptive to the current residents of those areas. Nobody wants that kind of irredentist bullshit except cryptofascists that use pseudohistorical arguments to start irredentist wars. That kind of thinking is what got Putin and other right wing Russian ethno-imperialists in their current mess.

No, of course not. Why restore Konigsberg to its former glory as a free Baltic city?

Euro-fashist glory. You seem to forget why it was taken from Germany

It was taken from Germany to satisfy Stalin's desire to expand Russian territory. Western allies naively agree to Stalin's demand to sanction Soviet occupation and dominance over Eastern Europe. That mistake led to the establishment of the so-called Iron Curtain and decades of Cold War oppression by the Soviet Union. It wasn't until the 1990s that former Warsaw Pact nations were able to escape Russian domination and join NATO for protection against Russian expansionism. Ukraine was denied NATO membership in exchange for giving up its nuclear arsenal to the Russian Federation and an agreement from Russia that it would respect Ukraine's sovereign territory. We've seen how well that worked for them.

his exposes the hypocrisy of your Russo-fascist pseudohistorical argument.

No it does not, and there, Fashists are in EU

Yes, and many of them are crypto-fascists in that they reject the fascist label but embrace their behavior. This includes the current leadership of Russia.

You try to justify Russia's invasion of neighboring territories on historical grounds

Sure, Crimea is a historical ukrainian land, sure.

No, it was Ottoman Turkish historically for almost 300 years. It became an independent Khanate in 1774 with Russian backing, and Russia annexed it and absorbed it into its own empire in 1787. The Bolshevik regime reconquered the territory in 1921 and made it an autonomous Soviet Socialist Republic. Khrushchev shifted it into Ukraine in 1954, where it remained until Russia invaded Ukraine and seized it in 1914. No clear motive for the Soviet move was ever revealed, but it looks like that made more sense, given its territorial, agricultural, and economic ties to Ukraine.

List of wars involving Ukraine - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Tigers!]

Another moronic scheme that only a madman would think feasible. This irredentist nonsense is nothing new to fascist autocrats in Europe, who seem unable to think in any terms other than ethnic stereotypes for entire populations of people under their control.

Who said anything about moving people? Western Ukraine will be given to Poland with all its people. So poles can have their little empirre back.

You talked about giving territory back to Germany that had been repopulated with Poles moved into that area from former areas of eastern Poland by Stalin.

Shifting borders to historical borders would be moronic and incredibly disruptive to the current residents of those areas. Nobody wants that kind of irredentist bullshit except cryptofascists that use pseudohistorical arguments to start irredentist wars.

Unless we are speaking of Israel then many want that to happen.

 

[Copernicus]

Another moronic scheme that only a madman would think feasible. This irredentist nonsense is nothing new to fascist autocrats in Europe, who seem unable to think in any terms other than ethnic stereotypes for entire populations of people under their control.

Who said anything about moving people? Western Ukraine will be given to Poland with all its people. So poles can have their little empirre back.

You talked about giving territory back to Germany that had been repopulated with Poles moved into that area from former areas of eastern Poland by Stalin. Shifting borders to historical borders would be moronic and incredibly disruptive to the current residents of those areas. Nobody wants that kind of irredentist bullshit except cryptofascists that use pseudohistorical arguments to start irredentist wars. That kind of thinking is what got Putin and other right wing Russian ethno-imperialists in their current mess.

No, of course not. Why restore Konigsberg to its former glory as a free Baltic city?

Euro-fashist glory. You seem to forget why it was taken from Germany

It was taken from Germany to satisfy Stalin's desire to expand Russian territory. Western allies naively agree to Stalin's demand to sanction Soviet occupation and dominance over Eastern Europe. That mistake led to the establishment of the so-called Iron Curtain and decades of Cold War oppression by the Soviet Union. It wasn't until the 1990s that former Warsaw Pact nations were able to escape Russian domination and join NATO for protection against Russian expansionism. Ukraine was denied NATO membership in exchange for giving up its nuclear arsenal to the Russian Federation and an agreement from Russia that it would respect Ukraine's sovereign territory. We've seen how well that worked for them.

his exposes the hypocrisy of your Russo-fascist pseudohistorical argument.

No it does not, and there, Fashists are in EU

Yes, and many of them are crypto-fascists in that they reject the fascist label but embrace their behavior. This includes the current leadership of Russia.

You try to justify Russia's invasion of neighboring territories on historical grounds

Sure, Crimea is a historical ukrainian land, sure.

No, it was Ottoman Turkish historically for almost 300 years. It became an independent Khanate in 1774 with Russian backing, and Russia annexed it and absorbed it into its own empire in 1787. The Bolshevik regime reconquered the territory in 1921 and made it an autonomous Soviet Socialist Republic. Khrushchev shifted it into Ukraine in 1954, where it remained until Russia invaded Ukraine and seized it in 1914. No clear motive for the Soviet move was ever revealed, but it looks like that made more sense, given its territorial, agricultural, and economic ties to Ukraine.

List of wars involving Ukraine - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

The problem is that anyone can cherrypick events from history to justify a military invasion of another country. Russia has been in a lot of wars and has spread out to become the largest country in the world in terms of territory. That it feels a need to acquire Ukrainian territory because of its butthurt over the collapse of the Russo-Soviet Empire is beyond absurd. Perhaps Mongolia has an interest in occupying Moscow again. Surely there are some descendants of the Golden Horde that would like to reassert control over the little upstart town on the Moskva River.

 

[ZiprHead]

CIA Chief Reportedly Warned Russia Its Economy Could Collapse Like the Soviet Union

John Ratcliffe reportedly carried a stark US intelligence assessment to Moscow: Russia may be unable to sustain the war economically.

united24media.com

Excerpts:

CIA Director John Ratcliffe warned Russian officials that Russia’s economy could collapse in a Soviet-style crisis if the war continues, German outlet Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitung reported on September 26.
(...)
Earlier reporting had already indicated that Ratcliffe brought Moscow a bleak assessment of Russia’s deteriorating military and economic position, after which the Russian leader Vladimir Putin reportedly canceled a planned meeting with him.
(...)
Washington wanted Moscow to understand that the assessment shaped its approach, and that Russia’s position would weaken over time.

Putin therefore should not expect US President Donald Trump eventually to abandon Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy, according to FAZ.
(...)
Russia’s economic strain has also been visible in its construction sector, where bankruptcies rose 41% year over year by early September. Housing demand fell sharply across several regions as developers faced high borrowing costs, inflation, and mounting debt.

 

[barbos]

You talked about giving territory back to Germany that had been repopulated with Poles

No, I didn't talk about that at all. You need to learn to read.

It was taken from Germany to satisfy Stalin's desire to expand Russian territory.

No, History and AI, sorrry, SI disagreess with your stupid theories.

No, it was Ottoman Turkish historically for almost 300 years.

You, need to learn some sarcasm detection.
And no, it was not Ottoman Turkish. And it never was Ukraine.
We took it from Turks who controlled it but there were not many Turks there but tatars.

Your tendency not to notice any russian claims on anything is annoying. In any situation you automatically take anti-russian side.

If you want to be consistent then you should be telling Turks to pack and move back to Siberia. Same with crimean tatars,
They are fucking invaders.
And fucking Finns/estonians along with Hungarians, should pack and and move to Ural.
And you yourself should pack and move somewhere in Europe. To hell with it, everyone should move to Africa!

 

[barbos]

CIA Director John Ratcliffe

Was politely told to go and gaslight himself more.
You fucking asshole lost the war with Russia!