How to Improve Capitalism

[Loren Pechtel]

No non capitalist country can exist without being threatened and undermined by U.S. military and covert forces.

Evidence is needed for this claim. The countries that we were undermining were Soviet-bloc countries. Got an example of a non-capitalist, non-Soviet-bloc country that we were undermining?

When the leadership of these countries vow to create a fair social government they have little to work with except the rubble the colonizers have left when they are driven out. Zimbabwe is an example. They want to be fair to the people and the rest of the world still wants to dominate them. Those who are impatient and have no loyalty to their own country wander off to places like the U.S. and Europe, looking for a quick fix for their own personal sake.

<Hits arkirk over the head with a history book>

Zimbabwe wasn't about being fair to the people. It was about taking everything in sight and giving it to his cronies. Only enough was distributed to the people to make it look like it was redistribution rather than theft. The redistributed land didn't work well, anyway--the people that got it didn't know how to farm (while they might have been working the land before they didn't see the big picture) nor have the money to plant and raise a crop.

Furthermore, he quit paying for maintenance. This was catastrophic. The problems were obvious immediately upon arrival--a big, nice airport with most of the lights burned out. Tons of luggage carts--which were useless because nobody had oiled the wheels.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Yes, the Arab spring.

Not sure what this has to do with the topic. We're not talking about religious fanatics this time.

I was talking about what the capitalists have done there. From the Shah to ISIS.

To not see it takes a certain blindness.

And the government that replaced the Shah is better than he was?!?!

 

[untermensche]

...The countries that we were undermining were Soviet-bloc countries. Got an example of a non-capitalist, non-Soviet-bloc country that we were undermining?...

They were countries trying to move away from under the US boot.

Chile, Guatemala, Haiti and many others.

Attacked over and over by the US for trying to break free.

 

[untermensche]

I was talking about what the capitalists have done there. From the Shah to ISIS.

To not see it takes a certain blindness.

And the government that replaced the Shah is better than he was?!?!

No. The government the Shah replaced was much better. It represented the people, not British and US interests.

And when the US put the Shah in power it set in motion the events that followed.

US meddling, capitalist meddling, is responsible for what exists in Iran.

We ride a wonderful capitalist tide.

 

[angelo]

I wouldn't say you're squirming so much as ducking the question.

Was Saddam a capitalist or not?

What does that have to do with the creation of ISIS by capitalists?

Have you any links that prove ISIS was created by capitalists? I think you're barking up the wrong tree there feller!

 

[untermensche]

What does that have to do with the creation of ISIS by capitalists?

Have you any links that prove ISIS was created by capitalists? I think you're barking up the wrong tree there feller!

ISIS exists because the US and some other thuggish nations invaded and destroyed Iraq.

The ringleader was the US.

A country run by a bunch of ignorant and dangerous capitalists who do more harm than good in the world.

 

[Tigers!]

To improve capitalism please provide me with more capital.

 

[Tigers!]

Is capitalism the ONLY system that produces wealth and jobs? Not better jobs or more wealth. Is capitalism the ONLY system?

Sure, communism produced wealth and jobs but peculiarly no-one really wanted to stay there.
They couldn't even produce the wealth nor jobs to maintain the Berlin Wall.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

What does that have to do with the creation of ISIS by capitalists?

Have you any links that prove ISIS was created by capitalists? I think you're barking up the wrong tree there feller!

He's the one claiming that, not me. I was asking what the relevance of his argument to his claim was.

 

[untermensche]

Have you any links that prove ISIS was created by capitalists? I think you're barking up the wrong tree there feller!

He's the one claiming that, not me. I was asking what the relevance of his argument to his claim was.

I made an argument, not just a claim.

ISIS exists because the US and other idiots destroyed what was Iraq.

Many many things were set in motion when the US invaded Iraq.

The US as naked aggressor is responsible for all of them.

 

[Jolly_Penguin]

Capitalism DOESN'T work. Not without safeguards and regulations and controls. Socialism doesn't work in its pure form either. You need a mix of the two if you want to get anywhere. And before you cite the good old USA as an example of capitalism working, look again. You don't have pure capitalism there. And whenever you go in the direction of pure capitalism, you've had disaster ensue.

 

[coloradoatheist]

Capitalism DOESN'T work. Not without safeguards and regulations and controls. Socialism doesn't work in its pure form either. You need a mix of the two if you want to get anywhere. And before you cite the good old USA as an example of capitalism working, look again. You don't have pure capitalism there. And whenever you go in the direction of pure capitalism, you've had disaster ensue.

True. But the argument that the two sides disagree on right now is how one is affecting the other and the impact it will have over time.

 

[noble brown]

None of these countries were actually communist. Most weren't even socialist and the ones that were were only so at the very beginning. The aforementioned states were merely state run capitalist countries. Calling themselves communist was kinda like how some countries call themselves democratic... Not pointing any fingers... To be precise a communist state is an oxymoron.

 

[Jayjay]

Surely the best way to improve capitalism is to split it up into competing capitalisms, and deregulate them so they can charge whatever the market will bear. If a consumer wants to switch to a cheaper capitalism, or to a more expensive but more fully featured capitalism, then they can do so.

So basically what we are doing now?

 

[angelo]

Have you any links that prove ISIS was created by capitalists? I think you're barking up the wrong tree there feller!

ISIS exists because the US and some other thuggish nations invaded and destroyed Iraq.

The ringleader was the US.

A country run by a bunch of ignorant and dangerous capitalists who do more harm than good in the world.

I'll repeat what I said before. Muslims have been slaughtering muslims and infidels, more than 1000 years before the USof A was even discovered. To blame America for the birth of ISIS, or any other of the world's ills is like blaming the god Thor for thunder and lightning!

 

[noble brown]

To blame America for the birth of ISIS, or any other of the world's ills is like blaming the god Thor for thunder and lightning!

Yeah! How dare he denigrate the pristine and noble America!?[emoji79]
And I like your analogy... 'Murica is like the god Thor... I like it! Like the mythical gods, we like to meddle in the lives of others for our own benefit or sometimes, just cause we can. [emoji48]

 

[untermensche]

ISIS exists because the US and some other thuggish nations invaded and destroyed Iraq.

The ringleader was the US.

A country run by a bunch of ignorant and dangerous capitalists who do more harm than good in the world.

I'll repeat what I said before. Muslims have been slaughtering muslims and infidels, more than 1000 years before the USof A was even discovered. To blame America for the birth of ISIS, or any other of the world's ills is like blaming the god Thor for thunder and lightning!

ISIS grew out of the ashes of Iraq.

It's military leadership is made up of former Iraqi military that were put out of a job when the US invaded.

To not blame the US is just to live in a fantasy world where massive violence and torture and destruction have no consequence.

Those that absolve the US of this can't be taken serious about anything in terms of ME politics.

 

[Nice Squirrel]

To not blame the US is just to live in a fantasy world where massive violence and torture and destruction have no consequence.

I'd like blatantly plug a book that deals with this issue:

I give it four acorns.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

He's the one claiming that, not me. I was asking what the relevance of his argument to his claim was.

I made an argument, not just a claim.

ISIS exists because the US and other idiots destroyed what was Iraq.

Many many things were set in motion when the US invaded Iraq.

The US as naked aggressor is responsible for all of them.

ISIS is simply the latest manifestation of the Shia/Sunni slaughter that's been going on for ages.

 

[Axulus]

I'll repeat what I said before. Muslims have been slaughtering muslims and infidels, more than 1000 years before the USof A was even discovered. To blame America for the birth of ISIS, or any other of the world's ills is like blaming the god Thor for thunder and lightning!

ISIS grew out of the ashes of Iraq.

It's military leadership is made up of former Iraqi military that were put out of a job when the US invaded.

To not blame the US is just to live in a fantasy world where massive violence and torture and destruction have no consequence.

Those that absolve the US of this can't be taken serious about anything in terms of ME politics.

Their capital is in Raqqa, Syria - I suppose the US is also responsible for that civil war as well? Is there any conflict in the world you could name that the US isn't responsible for?