How would Europe feel if we shut down all our military bases and removed US troops?

[Horatio Parker]

Nice job ignoring the fact that in most of these cases they joined the Russian block.

Nice job admitting that US doctrine has been and still is to hold Soviet Union and now Russia.
US doctrine is in fact as simple as Pavlovian dogs, anyone who dare to think of having decent relations with Russia must be "reeducated" preferably with death squads or carpet bombing, at the very least Maidan.
And funny thing, Vietnam went to US first, only after US rejected them they turned to Soviet Union and then US got mad. As one vietnamese guy said "all we wanted is independence the rest was secondary"

Cuba too.

 

[aeebee50]

Sounds good to me.

 

[barbos]

Nice job admitting that US doctrine has been and still is to hold Soviet Union and now Russia.
US doctrine is in fact as simple as Pavlovian dogs, anyone who dare to think of having decent relations with Russia must be "reeducated" preferably with death squads or carpet bombing, at the very least Maidan.
And funny thing, Vietnam went to US first, only after US rejected them they turned to Soviet Union and then US got mad. As one vietnamese guy said "all we wanted is independence the rest was secondary"

You're ignoring the fact that joining the communist block brands them as enemies. Of course we tried to undermine them!

Right, and the only way to deal with "enemies" is to destroy them.
And you are ignoring the fact that USSR was usually very late to all these parties, by the time they got there US would manage to make these countries enemies.

- - - Updated - - -

Nice job ignoring the fact that in most of these cases they joined the Russian block.

That is total bullshit.

For example, when Castro first took power in Cuba he came to the US and asked for US support. Since he had just thrown over a tyrant he thought he would be rewarded.

But the US rejected Castro, carried out operations like the Bay of Pigs, and through him into the arms of the Soviet Union.

There was no Soviet involvement in Castro's Revolution. But US aggression and terrorism, including biological warfare, aimed at Cuba forced it to try to defend itself by making deals with the Soviets.

Again. The Cold War was mainly the US attacking Third World nations using the Soviet Union as an absurd excuse for doing so.

Nice ignoring the fact that he proceeded to steal the property of a whole bunch of US businesses before asking for that help.

And US stole property from GB.

 

[dystopian]

If the EU kicked out or if the U.S. left on its own, it would only be a matter of time before Europe began foisting its horrors on the world again. Only under the protection of the U.S. has Europe managed to not erupt into the most violent, murderous place on the planet---and it hasn't been able to export those horrors either.

Oh look, someone who doesn't know what they're talking about.

 

[arkirk]

If the EU kicked out or if the U.S. left on its own, it would only be a matter of time before Europe began foisting its horrors on the world again. Only under the protection of the U.S. has Europe managed to not erupt into the most violent, murderous place on the planet---and it hasn't been able to export those horrors either.

Oh look, someone who doesn't know what they're talking about.

Yeah, Dystopian you really have a lot of ignorant people to cope with. I feel for you but will withhold my sympathy till you drop your superior attitude toward people who are older than you. I do not know how you Europeans would feel without your infection of U.S. bases, but I do feel you would at least be a little safer.

All the way from Martin Luther King's day till now, the U.S. has remained the greatest purveyor of violence on the planet. I am not proud of this. I would like to see my country lead the world in peaceful cooperation, but it just seems incapable of that.

 

[bilby]

Oh look, someone who doesn't know what they're talking about.

Yeah, Dystopian you really have a lot of ignorant people to cope with. I feel for you but will withhold my sympathy till you drop your superior attitude toward people who are older than you.

Because as we all know, simply not dying for a lot of years is a far more effective way to become an expert than actually learning stuff.

How about you drop your condescending attitude towards people who are less ignorant than you, and we will see what we can do about the superior attitude towards our elders?

 

[untermensche]

You're ignoring the fact that joining the communist block brands them as enemies. Of course we tried to undermine them!

Right, and the only way to deal with "enemies" is to destroy them.
And you are ignoring the fact that USSR was usually very late to all these parties, by the time they got there US would manage to make these countries enemies.

- - - Updated - - -

Nice job ignoring the fact that in most of these cases they joined the Russian block.

That is total bullshit.

For example, when Castro first took power in Cuba he came to the US and asked for US support. Since he had just thrown over a tyrant he thought he would be rewarded.

But the US rejected Castro, carried out operations like the Bay of Pigs, and through him into the arms of the Soviet Union.

There was no Soviet involvement in Castro's Revolution. But US aggression and terrorism, including biological warfare, aimed at Cuba forced it to try to defend itself by making deals with the Soviets.

Again. The Cold War was mainly the US attacking Third World nations using the Soviet Union as an absurd excuse for doing so.

Nice ignoring the fact that he proceeded to steal the property of a whole bunch of US businesses before asking for that help.

And US stole property from GB.

It stole a little property from the people who were living here already too.

And of course stealing property from US businesses that had been exploiting workers and resources for decades is not the same thing as being in "the Soviet Block".

 

[dystopian]

Yeah, Dystopian you really have a lot of ignorant people to cope with. I feel for you but will withhold my sympathy till you drop your superior attitude toward people who are older than you.

Translation:

"I feel for you*, but I'm still upset over that time you didn't give me that automatic deference/respect I demanded on account of being older than you, so I'm going to passive aggressively state my sympathy for you and then immediately retract it."

*) to state that you feel for someone is to express sympathy for them.

 

[fromderinside]

I think arkirk does with reason. Accept it gracefully whippersnapper.

 

[dystopian]

Accept it gracefully whippersnapper.

You're not the boss of me. I'll trample your lawn all I want.

Also, who even talks like that.

 

[arkirk]

Accept it gracefully whippersnapper.

You're not the boss of me. I'll trample your lawn all I want.

Also, who even talks like that.

Talk about passive aggressive.....nice work, Dystopian! That still leaves you a loser being buried alive in immigrants and trying to connect up with your saviors from Monsanto. I started out sympathizing with you but you seem to have a lot of sacred cows I do not respect....because I have seen far too much dishonesty from them. You keep the faith. I do not.

 

[dystopian]

You're not the boss of me. I'll trample your lawn all I want.

Also, who even talks like that.

Talk about passive aggressive.....nice work, Dystopian!

Do...

... old people not understand humor?

That still leaves you a loser being buried alive in immigrants

wat.

and trying to connect up with your saviors from Monsanto.

...

wat.

no really... wat.

 

[arkirk]

Talk about passive aggressive.....nice work, Dystopian!

Do...

... old people not understand humor?

That still leaves you a loser being buried alive in immigrants

wat.

and trying to connect up with your saviors from Monsanto.

...

wat.

no really... wat.

I do understand humor...but it has to be funny. We shut down all our bases and it hardly affects your country. That is just matter of your geography...or is there something going on the Netherlands I do not know about? There is so much going on in the ME that is flooding Europe in general with many refugees. We keep stirring up hornets nests in the ME and you guys keep seeing immigrants. I bet you would welcome a decrease in U.S. militarism. I am not sure how you feel about that. Displaced people is the result of military action and arms sales. That is just the facts of life. Militarism really almost always has an economic basis.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Nice ignoring the fact that he proceeded to steal the property of a whole bunch of US businesses before asking for that help.

You have a very short attention span.

All that property was paid for with Cuban labor that had been exploited for decades.

The businessman actually got off easy. They owed workers a lot more.

Basically all you're saying is that if US business interests exploit some workers and profit from it they must have the right to exploit workers forever.

Your position is the position of the despot. The position of the imperialist.

You fantasies about the acceptability of theft aren't reality.

 

[untermensche]

You have a very short attention span.

All that property was paid for with Cuban labor that had been exploited for decades.

The businessman actually got off easy. They owed workers a lot more.

Basically all you're saying is that if US business interests exploit some workers and profit from it they must have the right to exploit workers forever.

Your position is the position of the despot. The position of the imperialist.

You fantasies about the acceptability of theft aren't reality.

You only care about some theft. The smaller part.

 

[dystopian]

I do understand humor...but it has to be funny. We shut down all our bases and it hardly affects your country. That is just matter of your geography...or is there something going on the Netherlands I do not know about? There is so much going on in the ME that is flooding Europe in general with many refugees.

Please. Only right-wing nutters talk about "floods". The numbers, while substantial, do not justify that kind of fearmongering language.

We keep stirring up hornets nests in the ME and you guys keep seeing immigrants.

Really? Because at least in this case, the US really doesn't have anything to do with what's been happening. The majority of the refugees are from Syria and Eritrea. Syria erupted into civil war all on its own; and the US hasn't intervened in any significant way. The US also hasn't done shit in Eritrea, which is suffering from extreme poverty and human rights abuses from its government.

I'm not fan of your government's foreign policy, but you're blaming them for shit they have fuck all to do with just to keep pushing your ideological agenda.

I bet you would welcome a decrease in U.S. militarism. I am not sure how you feel about that.

Are you fucking kidding? We have a deranged dictator in our backyard with a rapidly deteriorating economy, a national cult of personality and nationalism reaching absurd heights, more nukes than anyone else, and a proven interest in conquering his neighbours. This is not the fucking time for you to pull back. If you want to do that, do it *after* shit calms down.

Also, don't say shit like how you bet x is what I would welcome, then immediately go and declare you don't actually know how I feel about X. Pick a position and stick with it.

Displaced people is the result of military action and arms sales. That is just the facts of life.

But *not* the military actions of the US or the EU, in this case. And *that* is an actual fact.

 

[dx713]

Not totally following you here, dystopian.
CIA/US military is the dr Frankenstein who created ISIS.

But I agree, if we want to find international responsibilities for the refugees crisis, the most finger pointing should go to Russia and China and their blocking of the UN discussions, (plus France and UK for making them dig the heels by overstepping their bounds in Lybia...)

Back to the OP, I don't see US presence in Europe as necessary, but it sure helps until Poland and Germany have finished rearming and the whole EU has agreed on a joint military organisation. Withdrawal needs to be a long term plan. (oh, and one other thing the US bring to the rest of NATO that hasn't been mentionned yet: logistics, strategic transport, and air-to-air refueling. If the US pull back, EU countries will have to take that into account in reorganising their forces, so yes, temporary increase in military speding is probable, even if it's not on things as sexy as fighter planes)

 

[Togo]

Not totally following you here, dystopian.
CIA/US military is the dr Frankenstein who created ISIS.

But I agree, if we want to find international responsibilities for the refugees crisis, the most finger pointing should go to Russia and China and their blocking of the UN discussions, (plus France and UK for making them dig the heels by overstepping their bounds in Lybia...)

Back to the OP, I don't see US presence in Europe as necessary, but it sure helps until Poland and Germany have finished rearming and the whole EU has agreed on a joint military organisation. Withdrawal needs to be a long term plan. (oh, and one other thing the US bring to the rest of NATO that hasn't been mentionned yet: logistics, strategic transport, and air-to-air refueling. If the US pull back, EU countries will have to take that into account in reorganising their forces, so yes, temporary increase in military speding is probable, even if it's not on things as sexy as fighter planes)

There's also the problem of radar. US nuclear defence relies in part on sensory equipment in Europe. Are we supposed to run and guard these facilities if the US does not? Are we going to get paid for that? Can countries who don't want to be a high-priority target for attack dismantle these facilities? Ditto with long range bomber facilities, and so on.

I'm not convinced, that in the event of the US pulling out of Europe, these troops and material would be sent 'home'. Global reach is global reach. Either you want it or your don't.

 

[dystopian]

Not totally following you here, dystopian.
CIA/US military is the dr Frankenstein who created ISIS.

That's true and all... but these refugees we're dealing with aren't primarily fleeing ISIS. We'd still be having lots of refugees without ISIS. ISIS is just amplifying the situation; taking advantage of the chaos caused by the Syrian civil war to strengthen their own position.

 

[whichphilosophy]

Please. Only right-wing nutters talk about "floods". The numbers, while substantial, do not justify that kind of fearmongering language.

We keep stirring up hornets nests in the ME and you guys keep seeing immigrants.

Really? Because at least in this case, the US really doesn't have anything to do with what's been happening. The majority of the refugees are from Syria and Eritrea. Syria erupted into civil war all on its own; and the US hasn't intervened in any significant way. The US also hasn't done shit in Eritrea, which is suffering from extreme poverty and human rights abuses from its government.

I'm not fan of your government's foreign policy, but you're blaming them for shit they have fuck all to do with just to keep pushing your ideological agenda.

I bet you would welcome a decrease in U.S. militarism. I am not sure how you feel about that.

Are you fucking kidding? We have a deranged dictator in our backyard with a rapidly deteriorating economy, a national cult of personality and nationalism reaching absurd heights, more nukes than anyone else, and a proven interest in conquering his neighbours. This is not the fucking time for you to pull back. If you want to do that, do it *after* shit calms down.

Also, don't say shit like how you bet x is what I would welcome, then immediately go and declare you don't actually know how I feel about X. Pick a position and stick with it.

Displaced people is the result of military action and arms sales. That is just the facts of life.

But *not* the military actions of the US or the EU, in this case. And *that* is an actual fact.

Floods is a correct term so it is hardly fear mongering to report what is actually happening. If their transport moved faster we could call it a stampede. Nearly 800,000 flooding into Germany (sorry "arriving" in Germany) in a year is hardly something not to be worried about. Next year the figure will be more. Now Germany needs to house nearly one million people. Should it simply print the money to solve everything like it did in the pre WWII era.