Hungary and the Problem of Religion in Politics

[SLD]

So I listened to NPR’s report on Hungary’s election Sunday. Orban is a Tucker Carlson and Trump loving semi dictator. He controls the media there and has ruled for 15 years. He’s an obv threat to democracy. But he does have to be re elected on Sunday.



What bothered me was the issue of the Catholic Church openly weighing in on the election. Listen to what he says, openly endorsing Orban and calling the opposition candidate a devil worshiper. "We cannot elect a representative who is unworthy of us," he says, "only someone who protects the hierarchy of God, homeland and family."

Sounds like a fucking Nazi! I mean, just come out and say fuck democracy. Is this the stance of the Catholic Church? Or just this little fuck? I realize that they don’t operate like the US churches, but still this is appalling. Organized Religion really is the root of our problems. It demonstrates openly that it is against freedom and is all about hatred of others who don’t conform.

 

[prideandfall]

Is this the stance of the Catholic Church?

yes.

one of the things you have to keep in mind is something i think most folks easily forget:
human civilization in the 'modern' context is about 4,000 years old, give or take.
the unbroken supremacy of the abrahamic religions in europe and the near east are about 2500 years old.
the widespread adoption of the idea that the populace should engage in elections in order to decide the members of the government that oversees them is about 250 years old.

this massive difference in timescale means that there are still *so many* social and cultural aspects that are still rooted in a mentality of authoritarianism, which was simply the default state for 93.75% of human civilization.

It demonstrates openly that it is against freedom and is all about hatred of others who don’t conform.

500 BCE called and wants its startling revelation about the nature of religion back, because it's gonna need it for the next 2500 years.

 

[Politesse]

Hungarian Bishops like Kiss-Rigó do not consider themselves always subject to the input of the Vatican, that's for certain; he made a lot of eyebrows not long ago by openly stating that the Pope "doesn't know what he's talking about" with respect to Hungary. He and Orban have been sucking each other off for many years. But he remains in communion with Rome, in theory, and Hungarian Catholics uniformly consider themselves Roman Catholics. The Pope visited Budapest last Fall, albeit briefly, and engaged in a private conversation with Orban.

Indeed, Catholics benefit from a substantial electoral majority in Hungary, comprising something around 60% of the population.

 

[TomC]

What bothered me was the issue of the Catholic Church openly weighing in on the election. Listen to what he says, openly endorsing Orban and calling the opposition candidate a devil worshiper. "We cannot elect a representative who is unworthy of us," he says, "only someone who protects the hierarchy of God, homeland and family."

I also remember when The Pope caused big problems with conservative Catholics in the USA by referring to the Iraq Invasion as a crime against humanity.

Truly, Catholics, as a whole, pay less attention to the opinions of the pope than many non-Catholics. Especially the media folks looking for controversy because it sells their show.
Tom

 

[steve_bank]

It is no different over here, IMO.

In thepast the RCC threatened politicians with loss of escarpments if they did not toe the Vatican line. Biden experienced some pressure. I think he has a picture of the pope in the Oval Office.

American Christian eladers are obviously outspoken on candidates.

Trump to some was an agent of god.

Billy Gram influenced politics.

 

[TomC]

It is no different over here, IMO.

I'm not sure where "over here" is, exactly.
The RCC is comprised of a billion people, around the planet, including me.

In thepast the RCC threatened politicians with loss of escarpments if they did not toe the Vatican line.

I'm not sure what "escarpment" means.
And frankly, the RCC can't credibly threaten a U.S. bishop with anything important. And U.S. bishops can't threaten politicians with anything important.

You seem to have a medieval understanding of Mother Church. Even the RCC has progressed since then.
Tom

 

[prideandfall]

And frankly, the RCC can't credibly threaten a U.S. bishop with anything important. And U.S. bishops can't threaten politicians with anything important.

You seem to have a medieval understanding of Mother Church. Even the RCC has progressed since then.
Tom

i think that change has nothing to do with the church and everything to do with culture moving away from reverence of religion in the last 40 years.

they stopped threatening because they stopped being able to.
if they still had the clout, they absolutely would do so.

 

[steve_bank]

It is not about the politicians, it is about perceptions of the Catholic population, somewhere around 20-25%.

Biden made an obligatory meet with the pope. Most presidents do. Publicly dissing the pope would be a political blunder for a politician.

Religion is still a major factor in out poltics.

 

[Patooka]

It is not about the politicians, it is about perceptions of the Catholic population, somewhere around 20-25%.

Biden made an obligatory meet with the pope. Most presidents do. Publicly dissing the pope would be a political blunder for a politician.

Religion is still a major factor in out poltics.

Publicly dissing the Pope was a sound political strategy in the early 20th century. It's short sighted to think the current attitudes towards religions today are set in stone and will remain that way. Case in point, there was a favourable shift towards evangelical Christians in Australian politics in the early 2010s and thankfully that sentiment is now waning.