I believe All Things are eternal and necessary. God is neither.

[Politesse]

Perhaps both...but in what way would it be unsettling? There are many way to be unsettled.

Perhaps I should be clearer. On what basis would one assign the probability of a universe existing?

It's not so much that it exists, which seems improbable but can't be calculated, rather it is the idea that it exists only once in eternity that appears improbable.

Again, on what basis is this probability assigned?

 

[DBT]

It's not so much that it exists, which seems improbable but can't be calculated, rather it is the idea that it exists only once in eternity that appears improbable.

Again, on what basis is this probability assigned?

The given condition: Eternity. Eternal nothing, then, inexplicably, something.

 

[steve_bank]

I hare to resort to ST dialog, but in ome of the movies Spock utters 'nothing unreal exists'. All that exists by definition defines t. Whateer you imagine may or may not exists.

For example god. Unicorns, demons, a withch who thinks she can control nature.

Other than an expression of subjective judgment probabilities do not apply. Improbable as Gerard's to reality has no meaning.

Putting aside god, eiter something can come and go nothing. If something can ink into existence without causality all bets are off.

If you assume causality then in some form the universe always existed and always will. If causality is rejected then you have gods, spirits, and things winking in and out of existence.

Those of us on the secular scene side do not need a comforting image of a god who created us with a purpose. Eternal worship and adoration of the big guy in the sky.

 

[Politesse]

It's not so much that it exists, which seems improbable but can't be calculated, rather it is the idea that it exists only once in eternity that appears improbable.

Again, on what basis is this probability assigned?

The given condition: Eternity. Eternal nothing, then, inexplicably, something.

I don't think you understand what a probability is, and are mistaking emotional bias for probability.

 

[DBT]

The given condition: Eternity. Eternal nothing, then, inexplicably, something.

I don't think you understand what a probability is, and are mistaking emotional bias for probability.

I know exactly what 'probability' means and emotion doesn't come into it. You didn't understand what I said so you imposed your own terms. A one off event in an eternity of nothing cannot be calculated because the odds against it happening is incalculable....just think about the implications of an eternal of nothing, then inexplicably, something happens. What do you think the odds are?

 

[Politesse]

The given condition: Eternity. Eternal nothing, then, inexplicably, something.

I don't think you understand what a probability is, and are mistaking emotional bias for probability.

I know exactly what 'probability' means and emotion doesn't come into it. You didn't understand what I said so you imposed your own terms. A one off event in an eternity of nothing cannot be calculated because the odds against it happening is incalculable....just think about the implications of an eternal of nothing, then inexplicably, something happens. What do you think the odds are?

There is no logical basis for assigning a probability to that event.

 

[DBT]

I know exactly what 'probability' means and emotion doesn't come into it. You didn't understand what I said so you imposed your own terms. A one off event in an eternity of nothing cannot be calculated because the odds against it happening is incalculable....just think about the implications of an eternal of nothing, then inexplicably, something happens. What do you think the odds are?

There is no logical basis for assigning a probability to that event.

So you claim and so you assert. But with odds of infinity to one, would you put your money on something happening?

 

[Politesse]

I know exactly what 'probability' means and emotion doesn't come into it. You didn't understand what I said so you imposed your own terms. A one off event in an eternity of nothing cannot be calculated because the odds against it happening is incalculable....just think about the implications of an eternal of nothing, then inexplicably, something happens. What do you think the odds are?

There is no logical basis for assigning a probability to that event.

So you claim and so you assert. But with odds of infinity to one, would you put your money on something happening?

Again with the appeal to emotion. Why does it matter what I would want to bet money on? Millions of people throw money at the lottery every day, and that does nothing to alter the probability that they will win. That probability, being based on real and predictable material conditions, is set in stone and quite easily calculable.

 

[steve_bank]

The odds arte not incalculable, they are meaningless. To calculate odds you have to enumerate possibilities.

The universe is. Causality applies including quantum probabilities. There is no basis for calculating a probability.

The same applies for god. God exists or not. To say the probability is 50/50 has no meaning.

 

[DBT]

So you claim and so you assert. But with odds of infinity to one, would you put your money on something happening?

Again with the appeal to emotion. Why does it matter what I would want to bet money on? Millions of people throw money at the lottery every day, and that does nothing to alter the probability that they will win. That probability, being based on real and predictable material conditions, is set in stone and quite easily calculable.

Again, this has nothing to do with emotion. The meaning of ' eternity' provides the odds. If nothing happened in an eternity of nothing (by self definition), the likelihood of something happening - by definition - being zero.