Originally posted by Derec:
And what about your own biases? You seem to suffer from a rather severe case of white guilt, with your "as white people" nonsense.
In the post you were replying to in such a nasty personal manner (attacking the person, not the argument or issues), what do you deem "ugly" or "ignorant"? Please be specific.
Well, we weren't discussing my biases, but we can in a minute if you like. Since as you say you're so fond of facts, I wasn't personally attacking you, I was stating the fact that you're a racist. Look up the definition: that's you. I don't doubt you don't feel racist. Most racists don't actually admit to it, but you are nevertheless. You want us to attack the issues or arguments, but you don't apply this to your own arguments. You attack an entire race or gender of people over and over again. This is one reason why I say you lack self awareness, because you can easily see it when you think
you personally are being attacked, but not when you do it, broad brush style to others. As to your ignorance, I'll give you another rambling example: let's take evolution. The fact that evolution takes place is a fact. Yet, we can't just leave it at that and accept it as the whole story. There's a
reason evolution happens. There's a
mechanism by which it takes place. There's predictions that can be made, and all of this has explanatory power. You are fond of accusing people of non-white origin of a greater incidence of violent behavior (among other things). You want to leave it at that, directly or indirectly implying that people of color have a collective moral failing somehow, by virtue of their skin color. You haven't provided any explanation. People do things for
reasons. There's a mechanism. There's an explanation. There's history. But you don't like black people, so you don't bother looking into that, because of the way you feel about a group of people, collectively. That isn't using logic or reason. This is where your ignorance is obvious and profound.
Now, as far as my biases are concerned, I do not suffer from white guilt. I am sure you think so, because it would allow you to easily dismiss my claims as another deluded liberal white guy with no substance to his arguments. I feel no guilt for what happened to people of color in the past. Disappointment, sure. Regret, yes. But personal guilt? No. I merely acknowledge that I am the beneficiary of a system that was set up for my ease of use, while it makes others have a very difficult time of things. That is a self awareness you lack. That way you don't have to listen, that way you don't have to consider my arguments, and you can remain safe and comfortable where you currently are, wrapped in your moral superiority, with someone you can look down upon so you don't have to look too deeply into yourself. As I'm sure you will eagerly tell yourself that people like me love to throw the racist accusation around, I'm afraid I'm going to have to disappoint you. You are literally the first. Congratulations.
I do not follow any conspiracy theories. The fact that there are violent gangs active in major US cities is undisputed fact, not a conspiracy theory. The fact that these gangs tend to recruit very young members to commit very adult crimes is not a conspiracy theory either. Lastly, the specific murder cases that I referenced actually happened. That is not a conspiracy theory either.
Do you have anything at all to say about specific points I brought up or are you content to engage in personal attacks and rambling about your coworker?
You are the theist crusader asking if evolution is true and if we came from monkeys, why are there still monkeys? You are not acknowledging the past, which is what explains the present situation. You want black and white simple answers where nuance is called for. You bring up specific non-typical counter examples that do not represent the mean and then insist it invalidates the entire theory. In short, you ignore rational evidence because it makes you feel uncomfortable.
This is not an introspective issue. My post was about gang violence, specifically by very young people, and how I do not think they should be coddled or euphemized as mere "at-risk youth" as if they were producing Dan Savage's podcast and not committing serious felonies. The actual point of this thread is lack of logical thinking on part of the protester who conflated statements about gang violence to be a statement a) only about black people and b) about all black people. Both are major failures in thinking and giving such thinking a pass for the sake of political correctness (can't criticize black activists/protesters or else you are "racist").
I am not a gangbanger so I do not need to introspect myself on this issue. Perhaps you do have that need, I do not know you.
Let me ask you -what should be done with teens in gangs who commit serious felonies, up to and including murder?
It IS an introspective issue, because you are ignoring evidence and reason based on your personal feelings. Your point in the OP of this thread was lack of reasoning and failure of logic. You willingly point this out in others, but then point to an entire community of people and insist that they are more violent than another community, but you stop short there, on purpose, and do not acknowledge mitigating factors involved in communities of color. These mitigating factors should directly influence our response in how we deal with these problems. Yet, it hasn't because of people like you that believe that all things are equal, and so communities of color should be directly and morally responsible for their actions. Our courts recognize mitigating factors in individual cases, and for good reason. It only makes sense that mitigating factors should be considered in communities of color when someone like you wants to justify or recommend harsh punishment. This doesn't address the root problems that cause these issues. We already have more people in prison than any country on earth (including China) and most of those are people of color. Yet the problems remain. This alone is an indicator that other solutions are needed.
