I think "Higgs particle" has already entered the technobabble lexicon

[Underseer]

It makes sense that if you accept the central conceit that these particles provide an incredible energy source that they can then also be used as weapons

Except that the energy weapons in question aren't merely powered by Higgs (heigusu) particles, they actually shoot Higgs particles at the target, which is why they are referred to as "Higgs cannons." When the Higgs particles are used to accelerate something else, those weapons are referred to as "mass driver" weapons (and even then, you will notice an explosion plume of the same color used to represent "Higgs particles" ejecting from the barrel at the same time as the projectile).

I don't think it was ever actually established that they're used as a propulsion system; rather, it seems the fighter craft use them as an energy source while using more conventional drives.

The artists went out of their way to make the rocket plumes the same colors as the Higgs cannons. For human technology, the Higgs cannons and the rocket plumes are the same shade of light blue, while the Gauna particle weapons and rocket plumes are red.

Those melee weapons aren't made from higgs particles afaik; which wouldn't even make sense within the show's canon as I've thus far understood it.

I've seen more than one translation now (two different subtitle translations plus a dub version), and while it is entirely possible that one of the translations was bad, but it was my understanding that the material used to make the business end of those Kabizashi spears is a material actually made of Higgs particles...

Show

...which as it turns out was harvested from Gauna or the corpses of Gauna hybrids, which is why the humans can't produce more of it until they figure out how to (or to be more precise, risk other humans learning that they figured out how to) make Gauna-human hybrids.

I was actually quite surprised at how realistic the show is in the way it depicts some of the in-universe science; especially compared against other such space anime.

I agree that outside of the nonsense with Higgs particles, the science in this show is generally better than in most anime, but as I've mentioned in previous threads the others are pretty bad. I especially appreciate that they went out of their way to correctly portray a proper sense of the trajectories and timescales involved in very fast objects that are at such great distances to each other, and even convey the difficulty of changing the trajectory of a very fast, very massive object such as the eponymous colony ship Sidonia.

Am I being overly fussy when I admit that I am annoyed by the fact that the photosynthesizing humans have the same color skin?

 

[dystopian]

Except that the energy weapons in question aren't merely powered by Higgs (heigusu) particles, they actually shoot Higgs particles at the target, which is why they are referred to as "Higgs cannons." When the Higgs particles are used to accelerate something else, those weapons are referred to as "mass driver" weapons (and even then, you will notice an explosion plume of the same color used to represent "Higgs particles" ejecting from the barrel at the same time as the projectile).

This still makes perfect sense, though. Energy is energy; if these fictional higgs particles (in the sub I watched, they were translated as Hyggs particles) already exist in an energized state, then yes all you'd have to do theoretically is gather up enough of them and expel them at a target.

The artists went out of their way to make the rocket plumes the same colors as the Higgs cannons. For human technology, the Higgs cannons and the rocket plumes are the same shade of light blue, while the Gauna particle weapons and rocket plumes are red.

That is an incorrect interpretation IMO. One of the first Gauna encountered uses a particle weapon that is stated to be a higgs cannon; and as you said it is red; which establishes that color really doesn't mean anything. Certainly in an anime you can't really draw interpretations based on artistic choices, nor do I think it's a case of 'going out of their way' to make the rockets the same color as the weapons... that's just basic color co-ordination which doesn't necessarily have anything to do with in universe canon.

In any case; it still actually makes perfect sense if they could use the higgs particles as both weapons and propulsion. Think of how you could (assuming you can keep its form coherent for an appreciable enough of time and distance) use plasma both in a weaponized form and in a thruster.

I've seen more than one translation now (two different subtitle translations plus a dub version), and while it is entirely possible that one of the translations was bad, but it was my understanding that the material used to make the business end of those Kabizashi spears is a material actually made of Higgs particles...

Not from what I've seen. The kabizashi spears are explicitly said to be made from a mysterious material (kabi) found in an ancient artifact made from the same material and are the only known means of destroying a gauna core. Think about it, if the business end was made of higgs particles like you said, they wouldn't need the spears to destroy gauna cores to begin with; they could just shoot them with their cannons. I suppose theoretically they could be coated in energized higgs particles as a way of cutting through the outer layers, but it is the kabi material that actually penetrates and destroys the gauna core.

Am I being overly fussy when I admit that I am annoyed by the fact that the photosynthesizing humans have the same color skin?

Yes. While they could theoretically get more energy if their skin was a different color; that's assuming the photosynthesis happens on a very basic level. It's entirely possible they've created some advanced form of photosynthesis where the color of the absorbing surface has a negligible effect at best. Besides, it is likely that a culture forced into doing it to themselves would trade lower energy efficiency in exchange for maintaining their traditional appearance.

 

[Underseer]

In any case; it still actually makes perfect sense if they could use the higgs particles as both weapons and propulsion. Think of how you could (assuming you can keep its form coherent for an appreciable enough of time and distance) use plasma both in a weaponized form and in a thruster.

That kind of gets right back to the point I was making, however. At this point we know very little about Higgs bosons, yet the writers seem to be using Higgs bosons to explain away a variety of technologies in an unscientific way: isn't that the definition of technobabble?

Not from what I've seen. The kabizashi spears are explicitly said to be made from a mysterious material (kabi) found in an ancient artifact made from the same material and are the only known means of destroying a gauna core. Think about it, if the business end was made of higgs particles like you said, they wouldn't need the spears to destroy gauna cores to begin with; they could just shoot them with their cannons. I suppose theoretically they could be coated in energized higgs particles as a way of cutting through the outer layers, but it is the kabi material that actually penetrates and destroys the gauna core.

Again, I could have seen a bad translation, or simply remembered something wrong, but I coulda swore Higgs "particles" were somehow part of the explanation of why cores are impenetrable, and further that the kabis are either made from the cores of gauna or are somehow synthesized cores of gauna (e.g. the hybrid).

Yes. While they could theoretically get more energy if their skin was a different color; that's assuming the photosynthesis happens on a very basic level. It's entirely possible they've created some advanced form of photosynthesis where the color of the absorbing surface has a negligible effect at best. Besides, it is likely that a culture forced into doing it to themselves would trade lower energy efficiency in exchange for maintaining their traditional appearance.

One way or another, we're talking about a pretty profound change in chemistry at a very basic level. If nothing else, skin should be darker as it absorbs more photons.

 

[dystopian]

That kind of gets right back to the point I was making, however. At this point we know very little about Higgs bosons, yet the writers seem to be using Higgs bosons to explain away a variety of technologies in an unscientific way: isn't that the definition of technobabble?

Well, I suppose on some level; I think it's a little different from say, star trek's technobabble though; where they just throw out terms that *sound* technical but don't really mean anything. With Sidonia, it's just that they make one central assumption about a technological/scientific breakthrough (higgs particles being an energy source) and then extrapolating what might happen from there. They could've called it anything, really. Most (good) sci-fi works on the same basic principle; assume that technology [x] is developed, then try to figure out what all it might be used for and how that changes society. The particular chosen name might fit what you're saying, but what they do with it not so much I think.

One way or another, we're talking about a pretty profound change in chemistry at a very basic level. If nothing else, skin should be darker as it absorbs more photons.

But like I said; that's assuming they're not using some hyperadvanced futuristic "photosynthesis" that isn't really photosynthesis as we know it and with which it doesn't really matter. It also assumes culture plays no role; when clearly it would; more-so I'd say in an ark ship whose population is clearly derived from Japanese stock. It might be kind of hard to explain the importance of 'looking Japanese' without making them sound overtly racist, but I could totally see how a culture both not as diverse as western ones and more group-oriented might give up some efficiency in exchange for maintaining it's traditional ethnic appearance.

 

[Underseer]

How is Sidonia any different from Star Trek? We still have no clue what can be done with Higgs fields technologically, and yet they're already postulating its use as an energy source, energy weapon, and propulsion system?

 

[dystopian]

How is Sidonia any different from Star Trek? We still have no clue what can be done with Higgs fields technologically, and yet they're already postulating its use as an energy source, energy weapon, and propulsion system?

I meant different in the sense that we're not constantly assaulted by sciencey sounding words; the science/technology in Sidonia is just a background prop for the story, while in Star Trek it's constantly being talked about and serves as a deus ex machina in almost every episode (simply reverse the polarity of something, and all your problems are solved). Sidonia seems focused on character development, whereas in star trek any character development is usually undone at the end of the episode.