T.G.G. Moogly
Traditional Atheist
Nice we agree about fantastic claims.
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If You Truly Believed, Would You...
- Thread starter Colonel Sanders
- Start date
popsthebuilder
Member
The human conscience and altruism aren't really that fantastical.
Faith in selfless Unity for Good.
T.G.G. Moogly
Traditional Atheist
We agree again.
My gold bars are stacked against the walls of my basement. That 10 billion is approximately current value. It's a bit higher actually.
The bars are stacked like bricks on a pallet right on the floor. They're not all exactly the same size as you can imagine so I have used a bit of sand to even things out as I've restacked them over the years, always keeping the top course level. The stack reaches almost to the floor joists along the foundation wall save for a couple spots here and there where I need access. My basement has 10 foot ceilings, a big old house built just after WWI.
The strange thing is that most of it was there when I bought the house, I've only added 33 bars. It did take quite a few years to restack them. Obviously the previous owner never worked in a brickyard and the stacks were a true abomination. But it's good now.
popsthebuilder
Member
popsthebuilder
Member
Oops, brain fart; plumb, and square too. The pieces almost fall right into place if the foundation is perfect.
Faith in selfless Unity for Good.
Colonel Sanders
Veteran Member
So you believe that that if a parent raises their child in a certain way, then that child will turn out exactly how it's supposed to?
But the problem is, kids almost never turn out exactly how their parents want them to. Kids aren't little robots, and they don't grow up to be big robots. One can do everything they believe is right and have their kid turn out to be a psychopathic murderer, or a drug addict, career criminal, local politician, etc.
That idea of having complete control over how your child turns out is a farce. That's not mere assertion. Environmental, genetic, experiential, and educational matters all contribute to who someone becomes. Parents play a large role, but ultimately, they don't exercise such full control that they can make their child turn out to be exactly the person they want.
And what if the parent raises them in the wrong religion because that's the religion their parents grew up with? That's really important because people such as yourself seem pretty convinced they have the answers that almost no one else does. So how is a Muslim kid, born to parents in Saudi Arabia, a religious theocracy, supposed to know that everyone in his family, town, society, and government are wrong?
I have no idea what this^ means.
I have no idea what this^ means.
You were never an atheist. But okay, go ahead and explain it. I"m so going to regret this.
Beating around what bush?
I've told you that you worship a monster whose rules dictate that it's best to die young and/or utterly ignorant. I've been quite clear about the implications of that. I've hinted at nothing.
I have laid out the rules your god has made with crystal clarity and you have yet to refute any of it with anything meaningful. And saying, "You're just ignorant," is not an answer. Saying that I don't get it because I don't believe you because you say I should believe you, does not cut it.
You like to preach and preach and preach, but when called on to answer very clear questions you are incapable of answering those questions. If you were to ask me why I don't believe in your god or any others, I could tell you why in a very straightforward and easy to understand manner. I expect the same from you.
So here's a couple of clear questions:
How do you reconcile the fact that it's literally a millionfold better to die as a child with a just and reasonable god?
And how does that doctrine not imply that it's best to die as a child?
T.G.G. Moogly
Traditional Atheist
I was taught that it's better to die as a child but that you're not allowed to want to do that. If you even think that might be okay you're damning yourself to hell.
It seems to me that people who claim to know about gods must subconsciously think they're gods. It's how they know what their gods want. Makes sense.
popsthebuilder
Member
Colonel Sanders,
Never said that parents where the sole deciding factor McDonald's obedience it the manner at which a child will grow.
Never said Islam or Muslims where anymore mislead than any other.
You play dumb n favor of what you want. This isn't ignorance and will not save you.
It means that you are a special breed of atheist that expects all handed to them on a silver platter with no work or responsibility f their own, then insist that there must not be a God because you can't get your little way n your time.
Again,just because to can't understand something thatdoesnt make it bad. That's called fear of the unknown.
Who the ....
Who are you to assume that you lay out anything of God in your disbelief? There are all kinds of fools. The ones who simultaneously play dumb and exude arrogance are possibly the worst.
Stop making shit up and ask a lagitimate question not based in personal biased opinion and I will happily answer.
For me to address a question you must first ask one that is legitimate.
Faith in selfless Unity for Good.
Never said that parents where the sole deciding factor McDonald's obedience it the manner at which a child will grow.
Never said Islam or Muslims where anymore mislead than any other.
You play dumb n favor of what you want. This isn't ignorance and will not save you.
It means that you are a special breed of atheist that expects all handed to them on a silver platter with no work or responsibility f their own, then insist that there must not be a God because you can't get your little way n your time.
Again,just because to can't understand something thatdoesnt make it bad. That's called fear of the unknown.
Who the ....
Who are you to assume that you lay out anything of God in your disbelief? There are all kinds of fools. The ones who simultaneously play dumb and exude arrogance are possibly the worst.
Stop making shit up and ask a lagitimate question not based in personal biased opinion and I will happily answer.
For me to address a question you must first ask one that is legitimate.
Faith in selfless Unity for Good.
popsthebuilder
Member
McDonald's...lol.
Sleep dep, greyhound, and stuff.
Faith in selfless Unity for Good.
T.G.G. Moogly
Traditional Atheist
The simplest explanation for what gods are is that they're people who believe that they're gods. Whether this belief is consciously or subconsciously motivated is unimportant in observing and identifying the behavior. And this post - like many others - strikes me as reason enough to draw that conclusion. This doesn't tell me what is in said person's brain insofar as their actual god construct, so it doesn't get me any closer to knowing what these gods in fact are for any given person engaging in this behavior, other than that gods are simply mental states.
External to that brain and that mental state, gods appear to be invisible magical creatures that dwell mostly out in the space beyond the earth. They can do anything and mostly judge human behavior.
So if I or any person honestly believed that gods are real, at some level we must see ourselves as a god. As an observer of this human behavior this conclusion makes the most sense and to me has the most explanatory power.
Colonel Sanders
Veteran Member
That makes sense within the context of its own insanity. But I was brought up in a church that claimed/claims that once you're saved, you cannot lose that salvation. The penalty is that your reward in Heaven is diminished. So apparently Heaven is definitely not a classless society. Anyway, the idea never made much sense to me in that it's like registering for the draft. Really bad things can happen to you if don't register, but if all you do is fill out the card and drop it in the mail, you're good for life--in a system that doesn't even have a draft.
For the preachers like Pops, there is at least an element of control that comes with it. Most of us have known or had the misfortune to meet up with someone in our lives who has tried to frighten us into believing. They are by far the most sanctimonious and insufferable believers. But, for those who are scared and might be on the fence, it can terrify them back into believing. For others, even though they disagree with the method of the preachy hellfire types, it still scares them and so they'll say things like the person has a different way of believing or that while they're right, they shouldn't behave like that.
But the net effect of it is to control the room, and the preachers know it, sometimes unconsciously, usually consciously. And when questioned, the more indignant they become.
Look at Pops. He can't provide an answer for anything but that doesn't deter him. And in real life, it's almost certain that no one questions him because people generally don't like confrontation. So in that manner, at least so far as control goes, it is an aping of the god they worship.
popsthebuilder
Member
Again you seem to assert things that you aren't sure of. I don't use fear in any way. Not do I consider myself more than nothing. Power nor control have any meaning or benefit to me. How am I instilling fear by stating that the things of God(everything) will return to GOD? How many times have I stated in this thread alone that motivation to follow the direction of God is not fear or reward, but doing what is expected by those who have the knowledge to know better. Those who are filled with greed and wants of the flesh are encompassed in the things of this world. I don't preach fear, but the opportunity Dr all to follow the direction giving them directly under God.
Faith in selfless Unity for Good.
popsthebuilder
Member
"of" not "Dr"
Salvation and direction under God for the sake of all creation shouldn't instill fear, but honour.
Faith in selfless Unity for Good.
Salvation and direction under God for the sake of all creation shouldn't instill fear, but honour.
Faith in selfless Unity for Good.
T.G.G. Moogly
Traditional Atheist
Besides the fact that people don't like confrontation is that we recognize things that are weaker, less fortunate, not immediately dangerous, and so we humor them or leave them alone. That's not being condescending, it's just humane and rational, and it conserves energy and resources for life's honest struggles. I've taken that attitude with the preachy types at work and things are a lot more peaceful for me as a result.
The other day Shakespeare came up and the fundy told me, "Shakespeare was a devout christian." It rather floored me because I've always discussed the literary aspects of Shakespeare. But my response was simply, "I know. If you weren't christian at that time the christians took you to the center of town and set you on fire." And I haven't heard a word since about Shakespeare's christianity.
Of course, according to pops those Christians were not true Christians. I guess their parents didn't do a good job, once again, according to pops.
popsthebuilder
Member
Colonel Sanders
Veteran Member
You preach disgust for this life and praise for the one after this--the one which has no proof of existence by any minimal standard. And should we not live this life that is "filled with the wants of the flesh" then we will not get the eternal life after this one. Even more, we will suffer infinitely for making finitely bad decisions.
And what in the world is "doing what is expected"? Seriously. Explain that. Because right now, from what I can gather from you, is that doing what's expected is to "follow the direction of God," which is yet another meaningless sentiment.
And yet again, I have to point out that to not "know better" is literally infinitely more advantageous than to know better. What kind of entity would reward its creation by giving it a brain to think and then punish them for using that ability? It's like giving gills to fish and then punishing them for living in the water.
And obviously, you don't consider yourself nothing. You come here and preach and somehow expect that we will all be enlightened by the things you have to say--as if atheists have never heard any of the claptrap you've been spouting along with the consistent inability of believers to answer simple, pointed questions.
I would say that your arguments are bad, but it's hard to see where you've presented an argument of any kind. You've done nothing but make assertions, some semi-coherent, others utterly incoherent.
When someone asks me to answer a question--when they've taken the time during the course of a conversation to think enough to put together something that goes to the heart of the issue and gives me the opportunity to say exactly what I mean, I appreciate it.
You've answered nothing and it's rude.
popsthebuilder
Member
I don't preach disgust for this life. There is observable beauty and wonder through the experience of life as we know it. There is potential for unfathomable beauty in this very life as well. Never said we had to live this life for any prescribed time in order to return to GOD. According to you, I say it's better to die in innocence, remember? I also don't generally speak of hell, and most definitely not one of infinite tourment. If I believe that the end is nearing and that hell was prescribed for ten thousand years around the age of Noah, then who said hell was eternal? You seem to hate my perspective to the extent that you actually remove y answers gem your mind and replace them with ideals that you are ready to confront.
What is expected is what is taught in peacable scriptures of numerous religions. There is an example written in the bible that explains exactly how to act. It's calls the life and teachings of Christ. Not the only example, but by far the best.
Not knowing better or being ignorant is equal to being without worth or significance. If you want to trade of real meaning and value of life for material posesions then that's your business, technically. People aren't punished for knowledge. How does knowledge and significance and purpose equate to punishment for you unless you are really lazy, selfish, or indifferent? I'm not calling you those things, just s Nt understand your perspective, or can't rationalize it, rather.
I am nothing. Noone is my name. I don't look to enlighten. In fact; I advise people to do the research themselves with introspection, honesty with self, and lack of preconseption and bias. I'm here to attempt to explain in the most clear way possible, that there is One Creator of all, and that we all have the opportunity and potential to be freed of the bonds of greed change our ditection as a whole for the sake of existence and the advancement there of on a previously unseen level.
Ask a simple question without personal attack I will give you straight forward answers as much as the subject matter allows.
What question goes to the heart of your issue? I will answer it, as I don't mean to be rude.
Peace.
Faith in selfless Unity for Good.
What is expected is what is taught in peacable scriptures of numerous religions. There is an example written in the bible that explains exactly how to act. It's calls the life and teachings of Christ. Not the only example, but by far the best.
Not knowing better or being ignorant is equal to being without worth or significance. If you want to trade of real meaning and value of life for material posesions then that's your business, technically. People aren't punished for knowledge. How does knowledge and significance and purpose equate to punishment for you unless you are really lazy, selfish, or indifferent? I'm not calling you those things, just s Nt understand your perspective, or can't rationalize it, rather.
I am nothing. Noone is my name. I don't look to enlighten. In fact; I advise people to do the research themselves with introspection, honesty with self, and lack of preconseption and bias. I'm here to attempt to explain in the most clear way possible, that there is One Creator of all, and that we all have the opportunity and potential to be freed of the bonds of greed change our ditection as a whole for the sake of existence and the advancement there of on a previously unseen level.
Ask a simple question without personal attack I will give you straight forward answers as much as the subject matter allows.
What question goes to the heart of your issue? I will answer it, as I don't mean to be rude.
Peace.
Faith in selfless Unity for Good.
popsthebuilder
Member
That was a lot of grammatical and spelling errors. I apologise.
Faith in selfless Unity for Good.
Faith in selfless Unity for Good.
Maybe. It was also a lot of silly gibbersh.