If You Truly Believed, Would You...

[popsthebuilder]

Were you trying to say that innocence is overrated or something? Childlike, yes, congradulations. I personally will always hold the innocent and needy in high regard. Much higher than any manipulative, selfish, winy, able bodied, or priveledged individual. That is judgement, yet still not condemnation. You seem to have a problem with stretching meanings and words in to things they are not. That would be an opinion if you were still stuck on that judgement thing.

Don't really mean to rant.

Peace

Faith in selfless Unity for Good.

 

[funinspace]

You don't know what I am and pass your assumptions on whatever you have heard elsware.

What hocus pocus?
You don't know who I am or the extent of what I know or Belief so your numerous assumptions are humorous at best. A shame really, I was hoping for stimulating conversation.

I wasn't sure what to bother quoting, but I think you are largely rubbing Colonel Sanders ( the initiator of this thread) the wrong way, as you have jumped into a thread where he specifically stated that this was about the below flavor of Christians and their mindset:

Most Christians live their lives like everyone else does and they do no harm. This thread is not about those people. This thread is about the extra-vocal, hyper-intense Christians calling for an all-out war on the nebulous Muslim Terrorist community. And a good number of them are up in not-arms about the Christians being slain by ISIS. So if they really believe what they say, then they can actually take concrete action to go save other Christians. Of course, the Christians they would find there would be almost unidentifiable to them in terms of Biblical interpretation, custom, and ritual, but that's a different matter. The point is they want other Christians saved and dammit they want anyone but them to do something about it.

Maybe you should initiate a thread in this section on something you find stimulating, and worthy of discussion/debate...

 

[popsthebuilder]

I wasn't sure what to bother quoting, but I think you are largely rubbing Colonel Sanders ( the initiator of this thread) the wrong way, as you have jumped into a thread where he specifically stated that this was about the below flavor of Christians and their mindset:

Most Christians live their lives like everyone else does and they do no harm. This thread is not about those people. This thread is about the extra-vocal, hyper-intense Christians calling for an all-out war on the nebulous Muslim Terrorist community. And a good number of them are up in not-arms about the Christians being slain by ISIS. So if they really believe what they say, then they can actually take concrete action to go save other Christians. Of course, the Christians they would find there would be almost unidentifiable to them in terms of Biblical interpretation, custom, and ritual, but that's a different matter. The point is they want other Christians saved and dammit they want anyone but them to do something about it.

Maybe you should initiate a thread in this section on something you find stimulating, and worthy of discussion/debate...

Good point. That is actually something we have in common, though I don't feel a whole hearted Christian would go fight as stated earlier.

Going to mingle at a building on Sunday and continuing in sin and hypocrisy Sunday evening is fd up.

Faith in selfless Unity for Good.

 

[bilby]

I had actually written a more extensive response, but then came to this^ microphone dropping gem.

Finally. I congratulate you for saying exactly what religious reasoning says you should. Now, most who continue to live, or will be born will be "lost" too, correct?
And if it would have been better for those in the past to have died as children, given that they avoided hell by doing so, then that means hell is indeed a place to be avoided, right?
And if hell is a place to be avoided then it can only mean that it is better for us to die as children now as well, right?

So what kind of fucking monster do you worship that creates a world where children are better off being murdered than growing up?

And I'm officially done with you.

P.S. "Innocence" is the same as childhood. Mental retardation or other conditions of incapacity also serve the same purpose.

It's not a problem with the world that God created. It is a problem with greed and deceit. Everything follows the direction of God.

So the greed and deceit you deride follows the direction of God, but that isn't a problem with the greedy and deceitful world that God created?

That makes no sense at all. If God made everything, then any problems with it are his problem.

The thing that God gave the most power and responsibility to is so selfish and bent on their own will that they literally refuse to do what is right.

If 'what is right' is 'what the Bible says is right', then I for one am very glad people refuse to do it. Your God thinks slavery is perfectly OK as long as we obey some basic rules about not beating our slaves completely to death. He is an immoral monster, like Voldemort. And like Voldemort, it is fortunate that he is fictional.

Then some of them have the ego to claim God is a monster because instead of giving us freedom, choice, dominion over existence, and infinite potential for the benefit of all creation, that God made, they would prefer to just be completely enveloped in their own material wants, left to destroy all existence, blissfully ignorant all the while. It doesn't work that way. People are so closed up in their selfish ways and false sense of worth that they can't even grasp things that are simple and beneficial to All in numerous ways with no negative thing attached to it.

If your done then you could stop cookie cutting what I say, and responding with partiality in a biased fashion as if you know something that you admittedly don't.

Really? You claim the existence of a God; You claim to know what that God wants; and you take it upon yourself to chastise others for not obeying the rules YOU claim your God wants us to obey, and then you have the brass face to accuse others of acting "as if you know something that you admittedly don't."?? That's seriously lacking in self awareness there. How, exactly, did you come by your knowledge of what God wants?

Doesn't matter to me either way.

Is that judgement?

Yes. You don't get to play be different rules from everyone else - the same rules apply to your judgements as to anyone else's. If you want to claim that you know what God wants - or even that there is a God that wants anything - you have to back that claim up. Otherwise you are just another pointless windbag. There are literally thousands of Gods that have all had people telling everyone who will listen what 'God' wants. If you can't distinguish your claim from theirs, then why would anyone take your delusions seriously?

 

[popsthebuilder]

Bilby,
Greed and deceit are of man. One of very few things with the freedom to choose. God gave us this freedom, and with it potential and responsibility. I kinda think of it as a test of the spirit or soul of man with the utmost significance for all creation. To be clear; I don't assume to know why God created us, or deny end times, but believe there is a variable, of sorts, with absolutely exponentially profound significance.

It amazes me how often people here go straight for the OT and only the OT as if it is the only scripture in existence. If the Torah was totally correct then there wouldn't have been a need for the new testament. As far as the Old Testament is conserned, in my opinion at this time; proverbs and psalms are great for a start as far as morality and direction is conserned. For someone so anti Torah I might suggest a different scripture to start with. In reality the start has to be from within on some level or else you can read all you want and the truth can still be completely veiled from your sight. We can lie to ourselves more convincingly than anyone else unless we practice honest introspection.

Didn't chastise anyone, and would not.

What rules have I said you must obey? I'm completely aware of how it sounds. The point is that people admit no particular knowledge on a subject, except 3rd hand biased Bs. If one has no experience with something and furthermore, no Faith or belief, or even opened mindedness towards a given subject then their opinion is pretty useless.

Example; I don't know shit about vaccines except for some third party ranting about how the cause autism. For the sake of argument; I vehemently protest against vaccines on every level. But I know nothing about them. It would be worse if I didn't even believe in a thing called a vaccine at all, and yet still talked complete shit about them regardless of my ignorant position.

This isn't about me. Let's just say that when I really needed a change for better, it came in a grand scale. The things I have been shown are from the word of God, and verified through further experience and scripture.

Actually, I've played by my own rules my entire life, gladly, and intentionally for the most part. So yeah, I can continue to do so. If you recall, I said judge if you are willing to be judged in like manner. You may also have noticed that I speak of mercy and forgiveness a lot.

I can distinguish any particular you care to here of. Ask, don't assume.

Peace

Faith in selfless Unity for Good.

 

[Tom Sawyer]

It amazes me how often people here go straight for the OT and only the OT as if it is the only scripture in existence. If the Torah was totally correct then there wouldn't have been a need for the new testament. As far as the Old Testament is conserned, in my opinion at this time; proverbs and psalms are great for a start as far as morality and direction is conserned. For someone so anti Torah I might suggest a different scripture to start with. In reality the start has to be from within on some level or else you can read all you want and the truth can still be completely veiled from your sight. We can lie to ourselves more convincingly than anyone else unless we practice honest introspection.

See, this right here is the biggest problem into your claim that you're giving information into the nature of God. Jesus was quite clear and straightforward in the NT that everything in the OT was the word of God. You can't just write it off and say that you're giving insight into what the guy expects from us.

 

[funinspace]

I wasn't sure what to bother quoting, but I think you are largely rubbing Colonel Sanders ( the initiator of this thread) the wrong way, as you have jumped into a thread where he specifically stated that this was about the below flavor of Christians and their mindset:


Maybe you should initiate a thread in this section on something you find stimulating, and worthy of discussion/debate...

Good point. That is actually something we have in common, though I don't feel a whole hearted Christian would go fight as stated earlier.

Going to mingle at a building on Sunday and continuing in sin and hypocrisy Sunday evening is fd up.

I'll keep my thoughts short, as we are derailing this thread... While I personally think the Mennonites probably have the God-breathed Bible theological construct down about the best of the lot, I also consider the Bible(s) largely a jumbled mess. So yeah, I think the more rational interpretation of the NT (with the OT in tow) is to be a near pacifist. All Christian sects go to the Bible cafeteria, and pick out the selection they gravitate towards (or prefer). I'm sure many just blind, deaf, and dumbly stay in the sect they were born into. The mainstream ones (UMC, ELCA, et.al.) basically understand that they are in the cafeteria whether or not they like this wording. The God-breathed, evangelicals, fundamentalists, and literalists are busy going lalalalala I don't do that, I can't hear you, as they enter the same Bible cafeteria. About a quarter of American self-labeled Christians are conservative/evangelical Christians. This group is largely pro-militarism (aka American exceptionalism), pro-death penalty, and pro-fetus. Is this group really any goofier than the Prosperity Gospel groups, or Mormon theology, or faith healing only churches, or the technology denying Amish? I have an in-law that thinks Luke 22:36 justifies his notion that he should take his gun anywhere/everywhere and he thinks he goes off with Jebus' blessing....such human foibles.

 

[ideologyhunter]

Too, too funny!!! Luke 22:36: And he said to them,' But now, let him who has a purse take it along, likewise also a bag, and let him who has no sword sell his robe and buy one.' Too cool. Carry 'n' Conceal Jesus. I know he has a way to rationalize Luke 22:49-51, where Jesus stops one of the disciples from slicing up the high priest's slave. There's always a way around those contradictions.
The one that hurts my head the most is that Jesus is portrayed as an observant Jew -- even to the point of stating that his 12 disciples will reinstitute the 12 Tribes of Israel -- so clearly this meant a lot to him -- even to the point of telling them that their message was not for the gentiles -- and, to the last night of his life, observing Jewish holy days, which the Christians no longer give a shit about. Yet they insist that he is their lord & master. I'm suuuure there's a sensible answer to this. It would just hurt my head too much to have to follow it.

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

Too, too funny!!! Luke 22:36: And he said to them,' But now, let him who has a purse take it along, likewise also a bag, and let him who has no sword sell his robe and buy one.' Too cool. Carry 'n' Conceal Jesus. I know he has a way to rationalize Luke 22:49-51, where Jesus stops one of the disciples from slicing up the high priest's slave. There's always a way around those contradictions.
The one that hurts my head the most is that Jesus is portrayed as an observant Jew -- even to the point of stating that his 12 disciples will reinstitute the 12 Tribes of Israel -- so clearly this meant a lot to him -- even to the point of telling them that their message was not for the gentiles -- and, to the last night of his life, observing Jewish holy days, which the Christians no longer give a shit about. Yet they insist that he is their lord & master. I'm suuuure there's a sensible answer to this. It would just hurt my head too much to have to follow it.

Makes you think about how we'd perceive one of our modern day superheroes that supposedly uttered such contradictory horseshit and engaged in such contradictory behavior.

"Batman, you're forgetting your sidearm."
"I don't use a sidearm, Chief."
"But, Batman, just last week you shot hell out of that East Side Gang using your 9mm. You killed four men and put the leaders all in jail. You've been packing for the last week."
"That was last week, Chief. I don't advise carrying a gun. Too dangerous. How can you have eyes and not see?"
"But how will we protect ourselves from the thugs and armed criminals?"
"There's always someone friendly around that's probably got a good 357 tucked under their belt. Find that person and stay close. You'll have your answer in due time. Meanwhile sell that boat of yours and get yourself some firepower. You're gonna need it."

 

[Colonel Sanders]

I had actually written a more extensive response, but then came to this^ microphone dropping gem.

Finally. I congratulate you for saying exactly what religious reasoning says you should. Now, most who continue to live, or will be born will be "lost" too, correct?
And if it would have been better for those in the past to have died as children, given that they avoided hell by doing so, then that means hell is indeed a place to be avoided, right?
And if hell is a place to be avoided then it can only mean that it is better for us to die as children now as well, right?

So what kind of fucking monster do you worship that creates a world where children are better off being murdered than growing up?

And I'm officially done with you.

P.S. "Innocence" is the same as childhood. Mental retardation or other conditions of incapacity also serve the same purpose.

It's not a problem with the world that God created. It is a problem with greed and deceit. Everything follows the direction of God. The thing that God gave the most power and responsibility to is so selfish and bent on their own will that they literally refuse to do what is right. Then some of them have the ego to claim God is a monster because instead of giving us freedom, choice, dominion over existence, and infinite potential for the benefit of all creation, that God made, they would prefer to just be completely enveloped in their own material wants, left to destroy all existence, blissfully ignorant all the while. It doesn't work that way. People are so closed up in their selfish ways and false sense of worth that they can't even grasp things that are simple and beneficial to All in numerous ways with no negative thing attached to it.

If your done then you could stop cookie cutting what I say, and responding with partiality in a biased fashion as if you know something that you admittedly don't.

Doesn't matter to me either way.

Is that judgement?

Peace

Faith in selfless Unity for Good.

I need a restatement for my syllogism. It was sloppy and I was in a hurry. Here goes:

1. Hell is the worst thing that could happen to a person
2. Children, the mentally, retarded, and anyone who has not had the opportunity to hear the Good News get a pass into Heaven
3. Heaven is the greatest thing that could happen to a person
4. By growing up, one increases their odds of going to Hell and not going to Heaven by roughly 99%.

Therefore, by far safest way to get into Heaven is to die as a child, be mentally incapable of making an informed decision, or live on an island where you will never, ever hear about Jesus. It is therefore also undeniable that knowledge of Jesus and Yaweh is an absolute curse--a blight on the human race.

1. Saving the life of another is noble
1a. Life as we know it is finite. We all die
2. The soul is infinite and never dies

Therefore, saving someone's soul is far more noble than saving their earthly life and possibly the most noble thing a person can do.

The implications of this are chilling but inescapable. For the most part, people love their children more than anyone else in the world. There are few parents who wouldn't give their own life to save that of their child's. But given the choice between not killing your child and risking putting them into Hell forever, it is far more noble to kill them when they're young. Then you can ask for forgiveness, wait to die, and be with them forever.

And while this is off topic, it's interesting to note that abortion doctors save more souls than anyone.

Those are the rules, according to, and acknowledged by you, that your god has set up. I didn't make them up. No one else here did either. It is indeed only a game that a monster of almost unimaginable proportions has set up and made every single person play, that is, unless they die as a child, are mentally incapacitated, or never hear of the monster.

Peace.

Yo.

 

[bilby]

Bilby,
Greed and deceit are of man. One of very few things with the freedom to choose. God gave us this freedom, and with it potential and responsibility.

How do you know this?

I kinda think of it as a test of the spirit or soul of man with the utmost significance for all creation.

If man is of any significance to all of creation, why are there billions of cubic lightyears of creation that neither influences man, nor is influenced by man, in any way? Humans are a minuscule fraction of life on Earth; The Earth is an incredibly tiny, and completely unremarkable fraction of our galaxy, which is one of millions of galaxies. If God created the universe, then he most obviously didn't care much about human beings. Even if He only created the life on Earth, He obviously likes beetles far more than he likes any mammals - including us.

To be clear; I don't assume to know why God created us, or deny end times, but believe there is a variable, of sorts, with absolutely exponentially profound significance.

If that is you being clear, I would hate to hear you being obscure. As far as I can tell, that sentence simply means "I think there is a thing that is very important, but I don't know what it is or why it is important'. To which the only reasonable response is 'so what?'

It amazes me how often people here go straight for the OT and only the OT as if it is the only scripture in existence.

I certainly don't; If you want to refer to a particular scripture, go for your life

If the Torah was totally correct then there wouldn't have been a need for the new testament.

Neither can be 'totally correct', not least because they are internally contradictory.

As far as the Old Testament is conserned, in my opinion at this time; proverbs and psalms are great for a start as far as morality and direction is conserned.

That's nice. I completely disagree - I think that as far as morality and direction are concerned, ANY scripture, from ANY religion, is a very bad place to start.

For someone so anti Torah I might suggest a different scripture to start with.

Sure, please do. But I should warn you that you will need to explain why your recommended scripture is supposed to be authoritative - what makes that particular scripture better than any other, and why we should beleive that what it says is true, on any level.

In reality the start has to be from within on some level or else you can read all you want and the truth can still be completely veiled from your sight. We can lie to ourselves more convincingly than anyone else unless we practice honest introspection.

That much is VERY obvious; What is unclear is why you think other people are lying to themselves, but that you are not.

Didn't chastise anyone, and would not.

What rules have I said you must obey? I'm completely aware of how it sounds. The point is that people admit no particular knowledge on a subject, except 3rd hand biased Bs. If one has no experience with something and furthermore, no Faith or belief, or even opened mindedness towards a given subject then their opinion is pretty useless.

ALL opinion is useless; unless it ties in to something in reality - something that we can all observe for ourselves. I know gravity works, because I can test it. I don't have to have faith; I don't have to believe anyone else; I don't have to read Issac Newton's or Albert Einstein's books and papers - whether or not I have done these things, gravity still works for me, and for everyone else, in exactly the same way.

Example; I don't know shit about vaccines except for some third party ranting about how the cause autism. For the sake of argument; I vehemently protest against vaccines on every level. But I know nothing about them. It would be worse if I didn't even believe in a thing called a vaccine at all, and yet still talked complete shit about them regardless of my ignorant position.

I have read many scriptures. All claim to be The Truth. All contradict either themselves, or observed reality, or both. I therefore have a right and a reason to reject them. If scripture - ANY scripture - actually helped people to live better lives in any way, then it would be simply implemented and used by everyone.

This isn't about me. Let's just say that when I really needed a change for better, it came in a grand scale. The things I have been shown are from the word of God, and verified through further experience and scripture.

Scripture is just stuff written down by people. It cannot verify anything. verification needs experiment. Experience can verify things, but only after we have protected against confirmation bias. This has been demonstrated over and over again to be the only effective way of coming to knowledge. And there is not ONE SINGLE THING humans have EVER DONE OR SEEN that cannot be explained without invoking a God or Gods. Not one single thing.

Throughout history, many times people have said 'This is God's will' or 'This can only be explained as an act of God'; and EVERY SINGLE TIME, we have been able to show that no God is needed. Literally everything for which we have an explanation, the explanation is NOT 'God'.

Actually, I've played by my own rules my entire life, gladly, and intentionally for the most part.

As have we all.

So yeah, I can continue to do so. If you recall, I said judge if you are willing to be judged in like manner. You may also have noticed that I speak of mercy and forgiveness a lot.

I can distinguish any particular you care to here of. Ask, don't assume.

You assume that you have anything useful to provide as an answer. That is rather presumptuous; From where I am sitting, it is you who should be asking, instead of simply believing that you have an answer. 'God' is not an answer to anything; As an answer, 'God' is exactly as useful as 'I don't know'.

 

[popsthebuilder]

It's not a problem with the world that God created. It is a problem with greed and deceit. Everything follows the direction of God. The thing that God gave the most power and responsibility to is so selfish and bent on their own will that they literally refuse to do what is right. Then some of them have the ego to claim God is a monster because instead of giving us freedom, choice, dominion over existence, and infinite potential for the benefit of all creation, that God made, they would prefer to just be completely enveloped in their own material wants, left to destroy all existence, blissfully ignorant all the while. It doesn't work that way. People are so closed up in their selfish ways and false sense of worth that they can't even grasp things that are simple and beneficial to All in numerous ways with no negative thing attached to it.

If your done then you could stop cookie cutting what I say, and responding with partiality in a biased fashion as if you know something that you admittedly don't.

Doesn't matter to me either way.

Is that judgement?

Peace

Faith in selfless Unity for Good.

I need a restatement for my syllogism. It was sloppy and I was in a hurry. Here goes:

1. Hell is the worst thing that could happen to a person
2. Children, the mentally, retarded, and anyone who has not had the opportunity to hear the Good News get a pass into Heaven
3. Heaven is the greatest thing that could happen to a person
4. By growing up, one increases their odds of going to Hell and not going to Heaven by roughly 99%.

Therefore, by far safest way to get into Heaven is to die as a child, be mentally incapable of making an informed decision, or live on an island where you will never, ever hear about Jesus. It is therefore also undeniable that knowledge of Jesus and Yaweh is an absolute curse--a blight on the human race.

1. Saving the life of another is noble
1a. Life as we know it is finite. We all die
2. The soul is infinite and never dies

Therefore, saving someone's soul is far more noble than saving their earthly life and possibly the most noble thing a person can do.

The implications of this are chilling but inescapable. For the most part, people love their children more than anyone else in the world. There are few parents who wouldn't give their own life to save that of their child's. But given the choice between not killing your child and risking putting them into Hell forever, it is far more noble to kill them when they're young. Then you can ask for forgiveness, wait to die, and be with them forever.

And while this is off topic, it's interesting to note that abortion doctors save more souls than anyone.

Those are the rules, according to, and acknowledged by you, that your god has set up. I didn't make them up. No one else here did either. It is indeed only a game that a monster of almost unimaginable proportions has set up and made every single person play, that is, unless they die as a child, are mentally incapacitated, or never hear of the monster.

Peace.

Yo.

You sure are really confused.

Why would you kill your kids instead of raising them correctly?

You really don't understand that man and society are responsible for leading all astray, do you? You are so assbackwards that it makes my stomach turn a little. You favor lack of responsibility and the death of the innocent in favor of actual effort and direction under God. How lazy and selfish can you be? I see your ranting about Yahweh again. So again I will state that the Torah was misinterpreted as there would be no need for the new covenant or any further testament if the writings of the Torah were 100% accurate. Your also very confused about Jesus of Nazareth as well, but that's a whole different subject. I really hop you don't have children. If you can't even put effort into learning things in order to secure your rightful position then your kids indeed would be in trouble.

Whatever rules you are talking about are misconceptions and lies.
I wish you, and everyone luck in finding the truth.

Peace.

Faith in selfless Unity for Good.

 

[popsthebuilder]

Bilby.

I know it through common sense, experience, salvation, selfless conscience, and scripture.

Yeah cuz beetles have complete dominion over all other observable existence huh?

So what? Really?
Do you know what significance means? So what would be what one says about something that is irrelevant, not something with immeasurable potential for all existence.

Bahia scripture, New Covenant, Qur'an, Gita, Book of Enoch, Exeter book, there are plenty more.


Internal contradiction is the product of greed and intentional misdirection. It is more prevelant in the Torah than other scriptures.

Either you can't comprehend what you have read, or haven't even read it at all, and are making baseless assumptions.

Don't have to explain anything. But know that peaceable scripture that speaks of unity, peace, giving and selflessness are great moral guidelines. Disagree if you want. Greed is in everyone.

Throughout my life I have been introspective. I have fallen very far and numerous times by my own hand. Through my initial salvation and a lifetime If introspection I have found how to pinpoint internal deceit. I may not always act on it, but it stands out in stark contrast to what I know is right. Never said I was perfect, never will.

What was your point about opinions?

Just because many choose to be willfully ignorant in some twisted attempt to play dumb and henceforth continue in selfish wants doesn't mean that scripture is opinion, or that there is no God.

Show me where scripture contradicts reality. Please pick something other than the Torah if you can.

Your opinion has nothing to do with my experience. Scripture isn't the base of my faith, but it indeed does have the capacity to verify things that I have already been shown.

I couldn't care less about where you are sitting. We all learn daily. To profess otherwise is the true sign of a fool. I ask questions sometimes, and learn without having to ask questions more often than not. I don't ask about the absence of faith or belief because I was a hardcore atheist for over 25 years and don't need the opinion of someone still lost in the dark.

Peace




Faith in selfless Unity for Good.

 

[Colonel Sanders]

I need a restatement for my syllogism. It was sloppy and I was in a hurry. Here goes:

1. Hell is the worst thing that could happen to a person
2. Children, the mentally, retarded, and anyone who has not had the opportunity to hear the Good News get a pass into Heaven
3. Heaven is the greatest thing that could happen to a person
4. By growing up, one increases their odds of going to Hell and not going to Heaven by roughly 99%.

Therefore, by far safest way to get into Heaven is to die as a child, be mentally incapable of making an informed decision, or live on an island where you will never, ever hear about Jesus. It is therefore also undeniable that knowledge of Jesus and Yaweh is an absolute curse--a blight on the human race.

1. Saving the life of another is noble
1a. Life as we know it is finite. We all die
2. The soul is infinite and never dies

Therefore, saving someone's soul is far more noble than saving their earthly life and possibly the most noble thing a person can do.

The implications of this are chilling but inescapable. For the most part, people love their children more than anyone else in the world. There are few parents who wouldn't give their own life to save that of their child's. But given the choice between not killing your child and risking putting them into Hell forever, it is far more noble to kill them when they're young. Then you can ask for forgiveness, wait to die, and be with them forever.

And while this is off topic, it's interesting to note that abortion doctors save more souls than anyone.

Those are the rules, according to, and acknowledged by you, that your god has set up. I didn't make them up. No one else here did either. It is indeed only a game that a monster of almost unimaginable proportions has set up and made every single person play, that is, unless they die as a child, are mentally incapacitated, or never hear of the monster.

Peace.

Yo.

You sure are really confused.

Why would you kill your kids instead of raising them correctly?

You really don't understand that man and society are responsible for leading all astray, do you? You are so assbackwards that it makes my stomach turn a little. You favor lack of responsibility and the death of the innocent in favor of actual effort and direction under God. How lazy and selfish can you be? I see your ranting about Yahweh again. So again I will state that the Torah was misinterpreted as there would be no need for the new covenant or any further testament if the writings of the Torah were 100% accurate. Your also very confused about Jesus of Nazareth as well, but that's a whole different subject. I really hop you don't have children. If you can't even put effort into learning things in order to secure your rightful position then your kids indeed would be in trouble.

Whatever rules you are talking about are misconceptions and lies.
I wish you, and everyone luck in finding the truth.

Peace.

Faith in selfless Unity for Good.

See Pops, this is your problem. Even after acknowledging that your beliefs dictate that it's best to die before one has a chance to sin, you come back and deny those are the rules. And remember, they're not my rules, they're yours according to your interpretation of your holy book.

The reason you have such a problem with this is because when it comes to this subject, you refuse to make the obvious inferences. You refuse to acknowledge the implications.

Satan didn't make up the innocence and ignorance rules; God did.
And you can't honestly say that these rules don't exist, because according to you and your religion, they absolutely do.

Tell me how I'm wrong. Insulting my abilities as a parent or worth as human being or my mental state is not an argument. It does not clarify how I am wrong and you are right--not to mention your grandiose opinion about how wrongly the Torah has been misinterpreted. I don't even know what that means. I can only infer from that statement that you believe you've properly interpreted it.

So anyway, if I don't know the rules--if I have them wrong, then you need to explain in an articulable manner just how I am wrong and you are right. Threats of Hellfire and insults don't scare me or bother me. Incoherent sentences filled with flowery words don't confuse me or give me pause to think. I know nonsense when I see it.

So come on, Pops, explain how the rules are not what they appear to be.

P.S. You weren't a "hardcore atheist." Ever. Do you actually.... nah. Nevermind. That's a long, boring, frustrating road I don't want to go down.

 

[popsthebuilder]

Too, too funny!!! Luke 22:36: And he said to them,' But now, let him who has a purse take it along, likewise also a bag, and let him who has no sword sell his robe and buy one.' Too cool. Carry 'n' Conceal Jesus. I know he has a way to rationalize Luke 22:49-51, where Jesus stops one of the disciples from slicing up the high priest's slave. There's always a way around those contradictions.
The one that hurts my head the most is that Jesus is portrayed as an observant Jew -- even to the point of stating that his 12 disciples will reinstitute the 12 Tribes of Israel -- so clearly this meant a lot to him -- even to the point of telling them that their message was not for the gentiles -- and, to the last night of his life, observing Jewish holy days, which the Christians no longer give a shit about. Yet they insist that he is their lord & master. I'm suuuure there's a sensible answer to this. It would just hurt my head too much to have to follow it.

What are you trying to say?

Faith in selfless Unity for Good.

 

[popsthebuilder]

You sure are really confused.

Why would you kill your kids instead of raising them correctly?

You really don't understand that man and society are responsible for leading all astray, do you? You are so assbackwards that it makes my stomach turn a little. You favor lack of responsibility and the death of the innocent in favor of actual effort and direction under God. How lazy and selfish can you be? I see your ranting about Yahweh again. So again I will state that the Torah was misinterpreted as there would be no need for the new covenant or any further testament if the writings of the Torah were 100% accurate. Your also very confused about Jesus of Nazareth as well, but that's a whole different subject. I really hop you don't have children. If you can't even put effort into learning things in order to secure your rightful position then your kids indeed would be in trouble.

Whatever rules you are talking about are misconceptions and lies.
I wish you, and everyone luck in finding the truth.

Peace.

Faith in selfless Unity for Good.

See Pops, this is your problem. Even after acknowledging that your beliefs dictate that it's best to die before one has a chance to sin, you come back and deny those are the rules. And remember, they're not my rules, they're yours according to your interpretation of your holy book.

The reason you have such a problem with this is because when it comes to this subject, you refuse to make the obvious inferences. You refuse to acknowledge the implications.

Satan didn't make up the innocence and ignorance rules; God did.
And you can't honestly say that these rules don't exist, because according to you and your religion, they absolutely do.

Tell me how I'm wrong. Insulting my abilities as a parent or worth as human being or my mental state is not an argument. It does not clarify how I am wrong and you are right--not to mention your grandiose opinion about how wrongly the Torah has been misinterpreted. I don't even know what that means. I can only infer from that statement that you believe you've properly interpreted it.

So anyway, if I don't know the rules--if I have them wrong, then you need to explain in an articulable manner just how I am wrong and you are right. Threats of Hellfire and insults don't scare me or bother me. Incoherent sentences filled with flowery words don't confuse me or give me pause to think. I know nonsense when I see it.

So come on, Pops, explain how the rules are not what they appear to be.

P.S. You weren't a "hardcore atheist." Ever. Do you actually.... nah. Nevermind. That's a long, boring, frustrating road I don't want to go down.

If a parent is so lazy that they can't teach proper values to a child then that child is in for a rough life. If that child doesn't learn from their mistakes then they may be in for a ride awakening. You aren't wrong per say. You are only wrong if you wallow in self pity without active change. Didn't insult you. I know nothing to about you. Unlike you, I will not assume things about you.

I've already explained my view. You can choose to be willfully ignorant if you want. Just know that what you are doing isn't technically ignorance. I won't state what it is as you seem to really want to put words in my mouth.

You have no clue what our potential or responsibility entails. You seem to want everything to be peaches and cream just because you want it. It just doesn't work that way. Either stand for what is right or shut up and sit in a corner some where and await the things that you have the power to change.

As far as my atheism is concerned; I'm glad you left that one alone. Go ahead, ask. Assume. Just be prepared to be corrected.

I don't have all the answers. That doesn't mean I don't have faith in my direction under God.

Stop beating around the bush. If you have a strong opinion, then state it without assumption please. I look forward to further conversation with you. Just please; let us both leave accusations and assumptions at the door to make room for productive conversing.

Peace, really.

Faith in selfless Unity for Good.

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

Stop beating around the bush. If you have a strong opinion, then state it without assumption please. I look forward to further conversation with you. Just please; let us both leave accusations and assumptions at the door to make room for productive conversing.

I have ten billion dollars in my basement. Do you believe me?

 

[popsthebuilder]

No, not really. There is a single creative force that we are all connected to and is observable at least through the writings of ancient men of wisdom and direction throughout all history and geographical origin. It all teaches the same thing. Do you believe me?

Faith in selfless Unity for Good.

 

[DrZoidberg]

...Go on your own personal Holy War against ISIS?

What I mean by "true belief" is that one believes in their god as much as they believe that by going to McDonald's, ordering a Big Mac, and paying the requisite amount for the Big Mac, that such action will indeed net them a Big Mac.

OTOH, it seems a good bet that the more vocal and demanding a believer, at least in the U.S. Christian sphere of Whatever, the more they doubt it. For example, the yelling and whatnot seems like a way for them to stuff it down and quiet the doubting voices. This can be applied to sexuality, fear of God not actually being there, or an unhealthy fear of death. Of course there are some people who are aggressively uneducated or lack the intelligence to articulate a serious doubt, but at the same time it doesn't take a genius to doubt the existence of god.

Anyway, if one truly believed that the End Times were near and that they could fast-track their way to Heaven, why not gather up the family as soon as Little Billy turns 18, and go join the fight? It's certainly possible. Maybe not easy to do, but with enough fortitude, it can be done.

Yet none of them do. Or at least the number is so small that it's insignificant.

So really, it seems that they don't really believe. Look at suicide bombers. They're sick fucks, but dammit, they believe. They strap that vest on and run for the Big Mac that they really think is going to be there.

So are the loud and proud really just atheists trying to get out?

Well. I'll assume you mean Christianity. Because if you mean the same Sunni Muslim variant as ISIS represents your question makes no sense.

No. If I'd be a true believer I'd read the Bible. Renounce all material possessions. Not worry about who is in power. Because a true Christian obeys "the emperor". They're supposed to be above worrying about secular matters. Certainly not join a Crusade. Murder is wrong and I don't want to go to hell. The Bible is pretty clear on murder. Unless the murder is done by stoning. Throwing stones < AK47. So why bother?

I'd try missmanaging my health maximumly so I'd get to heaven faster. But not outright suicide. Since that's prohibited. Perhaps go on a mission to convert heathens somewhere I'm 100% shot at once. Perhaps Syria.

 

[popsthebuilder]

The Druze are in Syria.

Faith in selfless Unity for Good.