I’m a cop. If you don’t want to get hurt, don’t challenge me.

[RavenSky]

No, I was not drunk at the time. I was a mother taking her daughter to a concert. I followed all of the directions of police conducting crowd control; and as a consequence of that, my daughter was lost. I did not get hysterical. I did not get nasty with anyone. I didn't actually do anything at all except look for her at the entrance where I knew she should be coming through.

When I told the cop what I was doing after he approached me, he could have simply helped me find her.

Do you agree or disagree Barbos?

I wish I could say I am shocked that Barbos would discount and dismiss what happened to me, and blame everything on me including making up total garbage such as *asking* if I was drunk. Unfortunately, I'm not shocked. This is part of what we see every single time there is any report of a policeman abusing someone. The victim is dismissed as a criminal deserving of what they got. If that doesn't work, the victim has every bit of their behavior, tone and/or past dissected and criticized in order to blame them for what happened. We see it all.the.time - every time.

So I am not shocked that Barbos would take that very same inexcusable position with me.

But it is the fact of what happened to me - a middle aged white woman who used to believe in the Officer Friendly myth - that makes me realize that this kind of shit really does happen to completely innocent people, and to people who are perhaps not completely innocent but still don't deserve to be placed in illegal choke-holds until they are dead.

I believe you believe your own story. I am just not ready to convict that police officer on your testimony. And you have to understand why.

no, I don't "have to" undstanding why. As I said before, it was a fact that my child was missing in the crowd. I have challenged you to twist everything else any way you want to justify why the bully cop chose to not address the fact of the missing child, and instead bully me. You haven't because, frankly, you can't.

As for that choke case, If I were you I would not use it as an example because the guy was not completely innocent at all. Same way with my two stories, one was driving drunk and another was speeding and would not pull over.

people do not need to be "completely innocent" to not be abused by cops. Moreover, everyone IS innocent until/unless convicted in a court of law. Further, try reading again what I said: "makes me realize that this kind of shit really does happen to completely innocent people, and to people who are perhaps not completely innocent but still don't deserve to be placed in illegal choke-holds until they are dead."

I find it highly interesting that you continue to defend a cop you know nothing about, and continue to characterize my personal experience as false.

 

[RavenSky]

Not just to Ravensky: Since when does one "by the book" dick-head cop represent the overwhelming majority of cops in similar situations?

Please let me know where I have said "the overwhelming majority of cops" are dick-heads? I, in fact, made it extremely clear that almost all of my encounters with police when they are not in their official capacities have been excellent. I also made it crystal clear that two of the three cops in what happened at the concert were professionals, and not bullies.

Unfortunately, even I, as a middle aged white woman who was raised to respect and trust the police, have seen and experienced far too many "dick-head" cops, and then see over and over and over that cops are not prosecuted or even disciplined for their more egregious instances of dick-headishness.

The problem is not that the "overwhelming majority" of cops are dick-heads or worse. It is that the overwhelming majority of dick-head cops get away with their behavior, which then causes a loss of respect for the entire force.

 

[barbos]

I find it highly interesting that you continue to defend a cop you know nothing about, and continue to characterize my personal experience as false.

I am not defending that cop. I merely saying that you can't be impartial here.
And statistics is not on your side, a lot of people accuse police of abuse but most of the time on closer inspection it turns out not so clear. Again, I am not saying police can't be jerks, for example that famous pepper spray policeman was clearly a jerk.

 

[RavenSky]

I find it highly interesting that you continue to defend a cop you know nothing about, and continue to characterize my personal experience as false.

I am not defending that cop. I merely saying that you can't be impartial here.
And statistics is not on your side, a lot of people accuse police of abuse but most of the time on closer inspection it turns out not so clear. Again, I am not saying police can't be jerks, for example that famous pepper spray policeman was clearly a jerk.

You have done nothing here except blame me, question my truthfulness, and ridicule me by calling me "hysterical" - that is defending a bully cop. And that is totally typical of what people like you do in all of these cases.

Statistics have nothing to do with what happened to me at that concert. All your comment signifies is that you are again calling me a liar. Exactly what valid reason do you have to doubt my word about what happened? Have you found a history of arrests in my past? No. Have you found pot or alcohol in my blood stream? No. Have you found any eye witnesses (that turn out to have not even been there) who contradict my story? No. So what exactly is it that makes you doubt my word of what happened?

And more to the point, which you have continued to ignore repeatedly, what possible justification can you give for a police officer ignoring that a child was missing?

 

[barbos]

Let just drop it.
Maybe I am just tired of fake or over-blown stories about police abuse.

 

[RavenSky]

Let just drop it.
Maybe I am just tired of fake or over-blown stories about police abuse.

Are you suggesting that what happened to me was "fake or over-blown"? Hey, why not. You have already put the entire blame on me, called me hysterical and implied that I am a liar multiple times...

Just like too many people blame every victim whenever a police officer beats or kills someone. But no matter how dismissive or insulting you try to be to me, you have still utterly failed to address this single point:

A child was missing. The police officer failed to respond to that fact.

 

[Davka]

I've had cops threaten to beat me to a pulp. I've had them shove my face into a gravel parking-lot and step on my neck while holding a shotgun to my head. Neither of these were situations in which I had given them reason to believe I was at all dangerous - I was a scrawny kid, 6 foot tall and weighing 135 sopping wet, holding my hands carefully above my head. And they treated me like I was a combination of Pretty Boy Floyd and a meth-crazed 300lb linebacker.

I've also had cops treat me with deference and compassion. I've had them come to my aid when I really needed help. There are lots of decent people in police uniforms. Unfortunately, the rotten apples seem to get a pass from their fellow officers. And if there is the slightest opportunity to screech to a scene and leap out of their cars with guns drawn, far too many police seem to be eager to do so.

 

[Playball40]

Well, you should not have let her go into separate line and I am reasonably sure that they would have let you do that.

I didn't ask for any special exceptions. Did you completely ignore that part?

I thought you were disrupting orderly processing of your line by trying to watch your daughter.
As I said you should have taken daughter into your line.

Kindly tell me what "rule" I broke after my daughter went missing, and explain why that rule was more important than the fact that my daughter was missing?

Again, you should have taken daughter into your line.

Excuse me, you just said that "rules are rules" and that I should not expect special privilege because then everyone else will expect the same.

I don't think you understood the rule.

Moreover, you are blaming me!! Blaming the victim here for... what? FOLLOWING THE RULES!

I am blaming you for being hysterical.

What if I had asked to keep my daughter in the line with me, and they said "no, rules are rules" Then what?

Then you would have a case for grievance.

Further, what happened outside in the que has nothing whatsoever to do with the behavior of the bully cop on the inside. You found fault with me for FOLLOWING THE RULES but didn't find any fault with the cop's behavior when he was alerted that my daughter was missing?

I was not there, so I only have your side of the story.

Unbelievable. [shakes head]

Wow, so her daughter is missing in a LARGE crowd and a cop is preventing her from looking for her, but it's HER FAULT, because she was "hysterical"? Just wow. Gas light anyone? Do you see NOTHING the cop could have done differently? Nothing at all?

 

[Crazy Eddie]

Let just drop it.
Maybe I am just tired of fake or over-blown stories about police abuse.

We're ALL tired of stories about police abuse, and we're even more tired of the abuse itself. The difference between you and, say, RavenSky is that YOU start with the assumption that the stories are be fake or overblown.

 

[RavenSky]

I do have to thank Barbos and EP for addressing my personal story exactly like too many people address every story of police abuse because it makes their dissonance all the more glaring.

What it should do, however, is help educate them as to why entire communities don't trust police. Too many of you love to blame the black male victim in whatever incident currently under discussion by pointing out that black men treat police with distrust, thereby setting up a hostile situation.

I was raised to trust the police, to respect the uniform. For the most part, I am still torn between that long-instilled automatic trust, coupled with my own positive interactions with off-duty police officers, vs my own experiences with on-duty police officers. Not all of them. Not all of the time. There were the two detectives that went above and beyond to get my jewelry back when my house was burglarized.

But far too many of my interactions and observations have been more like what happened at the concert. Not nearly as bad as what happens all too often to black men (including black off duty police officers). Not nearly as bad. I'm still alive, not beaten, not arrested... just bullied a couple of times, dismissed instead of helped a few others. And I witnessed first hand how differently my white-skinned daughter was treated by police vs the treatment her dark-skinned high school boyfriend received. There was the night he took my daughter's car to go pick up a friend of his. Instead, we get a phone call to come bail him out of jail. He had been arrested for "trespassing".

He had driven to the apartment complex to pick up his friend as requested. He parked outside of the gated community in the designated guest parking, then texted his friend to come out. In the meantime, someone saw him sitting in my daughter's car and called the police. Perhaps racism was involved, perhaps not. Either way, police show up and demand to know why he is there. He explains, they don't believe him. They cuff him, rough him up and sit him on the curb. One of the cops managed to step on his broken fingers multiple times while he was sitting on the curb. They then search my daughter's car, tore it apart, wrecked several of her belongings, tore her school work into pieces. They then arrested him for loitering, trespassing and suspected burglary; and had my daughter's car towed away. I had to pay to get my daughter's car back, pay for the damage the police did, pay the boyfriend's bail to get him out of jail.No charges were ever filed against him. He wasn't trespassing, loitering or burglarizing the apartments. He was picking up his friend.

Does stuff like this color my perception of police? Yes, I have to admit it does. But who's fault is that? Mine? No. It is the fault of the police who have taken these bullying actions, and the system that does not punish/fire them for it.

And if I, a middle aged white woman who was raised to trust and respect the police, has learned to distrust that they will always behave correctly in my own life - how on earth can any of you expect a young black man who has almost inevitably been subjected to a "stop and frisk" type situation trust that a police officer is there to help him, or to at least not hurt /harass him?

 

[Nexus]

And statistics is not on your side, a lot of people accuse police of abuse but most of the time on closer inspection it turns out not so clear.

This is probably the most false assertion every made about police abuse. First, they don't even keep statistics on how many people they shoot or kill so they sure as hell aren't keeping accurate track of how many people are abused. Second, other police are doing the closer inspections and their bias is no longer trusted by the public.

 

[Crazy Eddie]

I try to avoid stereotypes as much as possible, but I confess that the one and only time I ever had trouble with the police I found myself confronted with a middle-aged white officer with a pleasant disposition, a handlebar mustache and a funny accent I couldn't place. When I suddenly asked him "Dude, I gotta ask, what accent is that?" he replied, "Irish, of course."

And I remember telling him "You mean to tell me you are an actual real-life whimsical Irish cop? Wow... you, Sir, will have my FULL cooperation."

 

[laughing dog]

During my life, I have had a number of interactions with police. In the vast majority, the police have been professional and kind. In a few, officious and overbearing. In one, potentlaly deadly (I had numerous firearms pointed at me). That was the only incident where my well-being has been threatened. I think most people appreciate that the police are normally or usually professional. But when they are not, the consequences for civilians can be dire. I think most people understand that as well which plays a factor in these threads.

I am fortunate in that I am a (upper end) middle-aged white guy, so I don't yet look like a common threat to the police or to others. But I know many people who have been harassed by the police. And I find it difficult to dismiss as hypersensitivity the myriads of stories from black men about their interactions with the police.

 

[barbos]

Let just drop it.
Maybe I am just tired of fake or over-blown stories about police abuse.

We're ALL tired of stories about police abuse, and we're even more tired of the abuse itself. The difference between you and, say, RavenSky is that YOU start with the assumption that the stories are be fake or overblown.

It was certainly overblown. Nobody was missing or lost there. And "hysterical" was certainly present there.
Now, cop could have handled it better, I am not disputing that, he might have been a jerk, but I seriously question the account because of the "hysterical" part. That is the way I read this story.
And questioning is not equal calling someone a liar.

Now back to police abuse part. You want abuse? then go to Russia and get arrested and die because you are sick and they would not let you medical help. Or better China, where they executed innocent man who actually tried to help the victim, not exactly an abuse, but this is seriously fucked up justice system.

 

[laughing dog]

Now back to police abuse part. You want abuse? then go to Russia and get arrested and die because you are sick and they would not let you medical help. Or better China, where they executed innocent man who actually tried to help the victim, not exactly an abuse, but this is seriously fucked up justice system.

I think most Western countries aspire to do better than 2nd and 3rd world totalitarian shit holes.

 

[RavenSky]

We're ALL tired of stories about police abuse, and we're even more tired of the abuse itself. The difference between you and, say, RavenSky is that YOU start with the assumption that the stories are be fake or overblown.

It was certainly overblown. Nobody was missing or lost there. And "hysterical" was certainly present there.
Now, cop could have handled it better, I am not disputing that, he might have been a jerk, but I seriously question the account because of the "hysterical" part. That is the way I read this story.
And questioning is not equal calling someone a liar.

My daughter was, in fact, missing/lost in the crowd. That is not "over-blown" nor false. I was not "hysterical" - that is your biased, dismissive mischaracterization. I was, in fact, quite calm through most of the incident, only becoming visibly angry when the bully cop continued to bully me and prevent me from finding my daughter. And you did imply multiple times that I was not telling the truth about what happened.

I am curious, though. Why are you doing this? What have I ever said or done that would cause you to declare me "hysterical" and capable of telling a false story for no purpose?

Now back to police abuse part. You want abuse? then go to Russia and get arrested and die because you are sick and they would not let you medical help. Or better China, where they executed innocent man who actually tried to help the victim, not exactly an abuse, but this is seriously fucked up justice system.

So until the US gets to be as bad as Russia or China, a mother who's daughter was lost in the crowd had better just sit down and shut up and take whatever a bully cop wants to dish out?

No.

And the reason the US police will (hopefully) never become the Russian police or the Chinese police is BECAUSE enough people continue to stand up and say "no"

 

[barbos]

Now back to police abuse part. You want abuse? then go to Russia and get arrested and die because you are sick and they would not let you medical help. Or better China, where they executed innocent man who actually tried to help the victim, not exactly an abuse, but this is seriously fucked up justice system.

I think most Western countries aspire to do better than 2nd and 3rd world totalitarian shit holes.

And you already do better
My point is, if you want change to better then try to find real cases, because fake ones only hurt your point.

 

[Crazy Eddie]

We're ALL tired of stories about police abuse, and we're even more tired of the abuse itself. The difference between you and, say, RavenSky is that YOU start with the assumption that the stories are be fake or overblown.

It was certainly overblown.

... is an assumption you start with in this case. We know it is an assumption because you cannot determine the case is "overblown" unless you are using your own experiences and/or imagination to conclude that the cop's behavior was initially appropriate under the circumstances.

Now back to police abuse part. You want abuse? then go to Russia and get arrested and die because you are sick and they would not let you medical help.

You know what? Normally I would point out breathtakingly meaningless the "What about the other guy?" argument really is in these cases. It's a red herring, an attempt to minimize one's own wrongs by pointing out that somewhere in the universe, things are worse. And ten years ago, that would only have been a red herring.

But it's not even that anymore, considering that instead of Russia you could just go to Missouri...

Or better China, where they executed innocent man who actually tried to help the victim, not exactly an abuse, but this is seriously fucked up justice system.

Or better yet, Texas, where at least two men have been executed for being an accomplice to a murder even though the actual shooter is serving a life sentence.

You're satisfied with playing that game? You're basically advocating the United States adopt as its national motto "America: Still better than North Korea!"

I think most Western countries aspire to do better than 2nd and 3rd world totalitarian shit holes.

And you already do better
My point is, if you want change to better then try to find real cases, because fake ones only hurt your point.

There you go again, assuming that this is an account of a "fake" case of police misconduct for no other reason except your predisposition to believe the cop was right in the first place.

"Give him the benefit of the doubt" is not a policy that leads to reform.

 

[barbos]

I am curious, though. Why are you doing this? What have I ever said or done that would cause you to declare me "hysterical" and capable of telling a false story for no purpose?

All right, I want divorce
Seriously, you need to relax and stop suspecting the worst everywhere.

 

[RavenSky]

I am curious, though. Why are you doing this? What have I ever said or done that would cause you to declare me "hysterical" and capable of telling a false story for no purpose?

All right, I want divorce
Seriously, you need to relax and stop suspecting the worst everywhere.

I am perfectly relaxed. You are the one suspecting the worst in me. You have accused me of telling a false or "overblown" story, accused me of being "hysterical", lumped my experience in with those supposedly "fakes" ones. I just want to know on what basis you make these accusations?

I think it would be an interesting insight into the mind of someone who blindly defends a cop you don't even know anything about.