I’m a cop. If you don’t want to get hurt, don’t challenge me.

[J842P]

I would be much more sympathetic to this point of view if American police did not have an institutional culture of "thin blue line" bullshit which enables the psychotic/sadistic ones -- whatever percentage they may be -- to abuse their power without being held accountable. But they do.

This is the crux of the matter as I see it. Yes, there are asshole cops in the USA. No, not all cops here are assholes. The problem is that asshole cops are held largely unaccountable because of the culture of policing.

For what it's worth, most of my interactions with police have been traffic stops - things illegal lane change and speeding - but the few times that has happened I've been let off with a warning. Pretty standard interactions.

 

[barbos]

Here is one, cop was just back from Iraq and thought she could be a distraction used to help smuggle an explosive device to the concert.

That's not rational. If he thought she might be acting as a distraction (by doing what every other mother was doing after going through screening) why would he be spending his time pushing her around instead of reporting the possible threat? If you think Person A is attempting to distract onlookers from what Persons B and C are doing, you don't stand there focusing on whether or not Person A's toes are on the grass.

He merely made her stop being a possible distruction and went back profiling other people for bombs.

Of you can't, then at least have the grace to admit that the cop's behavior as reported by RavenSky was unreasonable and just plain bullying.

As reported, cop looks bad, there is no need to admit it.

Actually there is. There is a need to admit bullying asshole cops exist and that everyday ordinary people have the misfortune to meet them.

I admitted that and even provided two anecdotes illustrating it long time before it got out of hands.

Otherwise, there can be no hope of improving the situation so that more cops live up to the polite professionalism of an Officer Friendly and fewer cops act like Bull Connor

My problem with taking any anecdote as truth is that it distort the picture and then ultimately hurt your goal of improving the situation. Take for example Ferguson, people are revolting, but what if police version is 100% true? How revolting over it is helping? The fact is, the guy just robbed the store and then quite possibly attacked a police officer. I agree he did not deserve to die, but that's about it, you can't get anything more from me.

 

[barbos]

I would be much more sympathetic to this point of view if American police did not have an institutional culture of "thin blue line" bullshit which enables the psychotic/sadistic ones -- whatever percentage they may be -- to abuse their power without being held accountable. But they do.

This is the crux of the matter as I see it. Yes, there are asshole cops in the USA. No, not all cops here are assholes. The problem is that asshole cops are held largely unaccountable because of the culture of policing.

For what it's worth, most of my interactions with police have been traffic stops - things illegal lane change and speeding - but the few times that has happened I've been let off with a warning. Pretty standard interactions.

Same here. The way I think they operate, they don't bother regular folk for minor infractions.
But if you have a long record then they will follow the law 100% and then if you act like an asshole they will counter that too and may even inadvertently exceed permitted level. Then if shit does happen they will cover for each other. Cover-ups is an unfortunate reality which should change. Now black people most probably do get less favorable treatment but that's because of statistical bias to view blacks as more likely to commit a crime which is what it is - statistical fact.

 

[Arctish]

That's not rational. If he thought she might be acting as a distraction (by doing what every other mother was doing after going through screening) why would he be spending his time pushing her around instead of reporting the possible threat? If you think Person A is attempting to distract onlookers from what Persons B and C are doing, you don't stand there focusing on whether or not Person A's toes are on the grass.

He merely made her stop being a possible distruction and went back profiling other people for bombs.

No, he focused on her, harassed her, and prevented her from looking for her child. He wasn't profiling anyone while he was looking to see if her toes were on the grass. That's not a rational reaction to someone you think might be part of a bomb plot. But it's exactly what you'd do if you wanted to bully her into submission.

Of you can't, then at least have the grace to admit that the cop's behavior as reported by RavenSky was unreasonable and just plain bullying.

As reported, cop looks bad, there is no need to admit it.

Actually there is. There is a need to admit bullying asshole cops exist and that everyday ordinary people have the misfortune to meet them.

I admitted that and even provided two anecdotes illustrating it long time before it got out of hands.

Otherwise, there can be no hope of improving the situation so that more cops live up to the polite professionalism of an Officer Friendly and fewer cops act like Bull Connor

My problem with taking any anecdote as truth is that it distort the picture and then ultimately hurt your goal of improving the situation. Take for example Ferguson, people are revolting, but what if police version is 100% true? How revolting over it is helping? The fact is, the guy just robbed the store and then quite possibly attacked a police officer. I agree he did not deserve to die, but that's about it, you can't get anything more from me.

I think it's a mistake to ignore the history of racism and police harassment in the months and years before Brown was shot. Remember the admonition "Let's have a black day"?. Remember what it meant? There's a reason why people believe a Ferguson cop needlessly shot a black teenager, and it has almost nothing to do with cigarillos and jaywalking.

 

[RavenSky]

That's not rational. If he thought she might be acting as a distraction (by doing what every other mother was doing after going through screening) why would he be spending his time pushing her around instead of reporting the possible threat? If you think Person A is attempting to distract onlookers from what Persons B and C are doing, you don't stand there focusing on whether or not Person A's toes are on the grass.

He merely made her stop being a possible distruction and went back profiling other people for bombs.

Is there something wrong with you? I was not a "distruction" and the bully cop was not looking for "other people" with "bombs". There was no one talking on a cell phone, and no one except you is talking about "math"

I admitted that and even provided two anecdotes illustrating it long time before it got out of hands.

No, you didn't. In both of your anecdotes, you defended the cops and blamed your "friends", too.

 

[barbos]

He merely made her stop being a possible distruction and went back profiling other people for bombs.

Is there something wrong with you? I was not a "distruction" and the bully cop was not looking for "other people" with "bombs". There was no one talking on a cell phone, and no one except you is talking about "math"

Speaking of speaking on a cellphone. Does her daughter have a cellphone? at the time? How old was she anyway?

I admitted that and even provided two anecdotes illustrating it long time before it got out of hands.

No, you didn't. In both of your anecdotes, you defended the cops and blamed your "friends", too.

No, I merely refused to defend anybody, because one was driving drunk and police most likely smashed his window.
In another case police did not need any defense because if was a clear case "what the fuck were you thinking not stopping and moving slowly instead?"
Police probably did not even have a number for that and freaked out.

 

[Nexus]

I detect fellow Daily Show watcher
I like Daily Show and such but you need to be careful when referring to them as factual news program, they are not.

I don't watch TV although I sometimes might see clips online. But I haven't watched a Daily show clip in recent memory if not years. So state clearly what facts you think I posted were incorrect. Simply assuming my facts come from that show and ipso facto those facts are wrong isn't a good argument.

 

[barbos]

I detect fellow Daily Show watcher
I like Daily Show and such but you need to be careful when referring to them as factual news program, they are not.

I don't watch TV although I sometimes might see clips online. But I haven't watched a Daily show clip in recent memory if not years. So state clearly what facts you think I posted were incorrect. Simply assuming my facts come from that show and ipso facto those facts are wrong isn't a good argument.

There was a Daily Show about that about two months ago.
I don't know whether or not it is correct. All I am saying it is not really relevant.

- - - Updated - - -

I detect fellow Daily Show watcher
I like Daily Show and such but you need to be careful when referring to them as factual news program, they are not.

I don't watch TV although I sometimes might see clips online. But I haven't watched a Daily show clip in recent memory if not years. So state clearly what facts you think I posted were incorrect. Simply assuming my facts come from that show and ipso facto those facts are wrong isn't a good argument.

There was a Daily Show about that about two months ago.
I don't know whether or not it is correct. All I am saying it is not really relevant.

 

[tupac chopra]

Is there any place in the wide world where a cop is more in danger of being shot than America?

 

[barbos]

Is there any place in the wide world where a cop is more in danger of being shot than America?

I think Mexico, Central and most of South America (Brazil, Venezuela, Colombia, etc) South Africa.

 

[tupac chopra]

Is there any place in the wide world where a cop is more in danger of being shot than America?

I think Mexico, Central and most of South America (Brazil, Venezuela, Colombia, etc) South Africa.

Mexico maybe. Most of south America, I doubt it, having been there several times.

 

[RavenSky]

Is there something wrong with you? I was not a "distruction" and the bully cop was not looking for "other people" with "bombs". There was no one talking on a cell phone, and no one except you is talking about "math"

Speaking of speaking on a cellphone. Does her daughter have a cellphone? at the time? How old was she anyway?

None of your business. Why are you obsessing on non-existant cell phones? No one was on a cell phone, and after all of the false and nasty crap you have said about me it will be a very cold day in hell before I tell you anything whatsoever about my daughter. I find your questions very weird and inappropriate.

I admitted that and even provided two anecdotes illustrating it long time before it got out of hands.

No, you didn't. In both of your anecdotes, you defended the cops and blamed your "friends", too.

No, I merely refused to defend anybody, because one was driving drunk and police most likely smashed his window.
In another case police did not need any defense because if was a clear case "what the fuck were you thinking not stopping and moving slowly instead?"
Police probably did not even have a number for that and freaked out.

As I said, you did not provide any ancedotes about bad policing. You provided two stories about "friends" reporting negative experiences with cops, and in both cases you blame your "friends".

 

[barbos]

Speaking of speaking on a cellphone. Does her daughter have a cellphone? at the time? How old was she anyway?

None of your business. Why are you obsessing on non-existant cell phones? No one was on a cell phone, and after all of the false and nasty crap you have said about me it will be a very cold day in hell before I tell you anything whatsoever about my daughter. I find your questions very weird and inappropriate.

It is you who is weird. I know most kids have cell phones now, and the main reason I believe safety. Someone like you sure knows that already. So you being weirdly obtuse is not warranted here.
So I repeat my question, did she have a cellphone?

I admitted that and even provided two anecdotes illustrating it long time before it got out of hands.

No, you didn't. In both of your anecdotes, you defended the cops and blamed your "friends", too.

No, I merely refused to defend anybody, because one was driving drunk and police most likely smashed his window.
In another case police did not need any defense because if was a clear case "what the fuck were you thinking not stopping and moving slowly instead?"
Police probably did not even have a number for that and freaked out.

As I said, you did not provide any ancedotes about bad policing. You provided two stories about "friends" reporting negative experiences with cops, and in both cases you blame your "friends".

And they agreed with me
But you sure blame police for drunk driving.

 

[barbos]

I think Mexico, Central and most of South America (Brazil, Venezuela, Colombia, etc) South Africa.

Mexico maybe. Most of south America, I doubt it, having been there several times.

Venezuela has pretty insane gun murder rate. And in Brazil there are places where police simply does not show up (for their own safety)

 

[RavenSky]

None of your business. Why are you obsessing on non-existant cell phones? No one was on a cell phone, and after all of the false and nasty crap you have said about me it will be a very cold day in hell before I tell you anything whatsoever about my daughter. I find your questions very weird and inappropriate.

It is you who is weird. I know most kids have cell phones now, and the main reason I believe safety. Someone like you sure knows that already. So you being weirdly obtuse is not warranted here.
So I repeat my question, did she have a cellphone?

and I repeat, I will not answer any more of your crazy questions, and I find your continued obsession with this situation to be very weird. You have already shown yourself to be detached from any sort of rational reality with regard to this *discussion* by imagining that I disrupted the que outside of the park, that I was drunk, that I was a decoy for bombers, or that I was hysterical. You arbitrarily bring up math and talking on cell phone while driving and all manner of unrelated nonsense. Because of your entirely irrational behavior towards me from your very first post to me about my exoerience with the bully cop, I have zero intention of discussing it any further with you. You need to get yourself under control and stop obsessing on me and my daughter.

But you sure blame police for drunk driving.

yet another really weird, out of nowhere, non-factual statement by you about me.

 

[barbos]

It is you who is weird. I know most kids have cell phones now, and the main reason I believe safety. Someone like you sure knows that already. So you being weirdly obtuse is not warranted here.
So I repeat my question, did she have a cellphone?

and I repeat, I will not answer any more of your crazy questions, and I find your continued obsession with this situation to be very weird. You have already shown yourself to be detached from any sort of rational reality with regard to this *discussion* by imagining that I disrupted the que outside of the park, that I was drunk, that I was a decoy for bombers, or that I was hysterical. You arbitrarily bring up math and talking on cell phone while driving and all manner of unrelated nonsense. Because of your entirely irrational behavior towards me from your very first post to me about my exoerience with the bully cop, I have zero intention of discussing it any further with you. You need to get yourself under control and stop obsessing on me and my daughter.

But you sure blame police for drunk driving.

yet another really weird, out of nowhere, non-factual statement by you about me.

I rest my case.

 

[Arctish]

and I repeat, I will not answer any more of your crazy questions, and I find your continued obsession with this situation to be very weird. You have already shown yourself to be detached from any sort of rational reality with regard to this *discussion* by imagining that I disrupted the que outside of the park, that I was drunk, that I was a decoy for bombers, or that I was hysterical. You arbitrarily bring up math and talking on cell phone while driving and all manner of unrelated nonsense. Because of your entirely irrational behavior towards me from your very first post to me about my exoerience with the bully cop, I have zero intention of discussing it any further with you. You need to get yourself under control and stop obsessing on me and my daughter.

But you sure blame police for drunk driving.

yet another really weird, out of nowhere, non-factual statement by you about me.

I rest my case.

- - - Updated - - -

It is you who is weird. I know most kids have cell phones now, and the main reason I believe safety. Someone like you sure knows that already. So you being weirdly obtuse is not warranted here.
So I repeat my question, did she have a cellphone?

and I repeat, I will not answer any more of your crazy questions, and I find your continued obsession with this situation to be very weird. You have already shown yourself to be detached from any sort of rational reality with regard to this *discussion* by imagining that I disrupted the que outside of the park, that I was drunk, that I was a decoy for bombers, or that I was hysterical. You arbitrarily bring up math and talking on cell phone while driving and all manner of unrelated nonsense. Because of your entirely irrational behavior towards me from your very first post to me about my exoerience with the bully cop, I have zero intention of discussing it any further with you. You need to get yourself under control and stop obsessing on me and my daughter.

But you sure blame police for drunk driving.

yet another really weird, out of nowhere, non-factual statement by you about me.

I rest my case.

What case?

All you've done is ask for the sort of personal information most posters here wouldn't share with you, and pretend RavenSky's refusal to oblige somehow proves your point about cops not being at fault when people say some of them are abusive.

 

[barbos]

and I repeat, I will not answer any more of your crazy questions, and I find your continued obsession with this situation to be very weird. You have already shown yourself to be detached from any sort of rational reality with regard to this *discussion* by imagining that I disrupted the que outside of the park, that I was drunk, that I was a decoy for bombers, or that I was hysterical. You arbitrarily bring up math and talking on cell phone while driving and all manner of unrelated nonsense. Because of your entirely irrational behavior towards me from your very first post to me about my exoerience with the bully cop, I have zero intention of discussing it any further with you. You need to get yourself under control and stop obsessing on me and my daughter.

But you sure blame police for drunk driving.

yet another really weird, out of nowhere, non-factual statement by you about me.

I rest my case.

- - - Updated - - -

It is you who is weird. I know most kids have cell phones now, and the main reason I believe safety. Someone like you sure knows that already. So you being weirdly obtuse is not warranted here.
So I repeat my question, did she have a cellphone?

and I repeat, I will not answer any more of your crazy questions, and I find your continued obsession with this situation to be very weird. You have already shown yourself to be detached from any sort of rational reality with regard to this *discussion* by imagining that I disrupted the que outside of the park, that I was drunk, that I was a decoy for bombers, or that I was hysterical. You arbitrarily bring up math and talking on cell phone while driving and all manner of unrelated nonsense. Because of your entirely irrational behavior towards me from your very first post to me about my exoerience with the bully cop, I have zero intention of discussing it any further with you. You need to get yourself under control and stop obsessing on me and my daughter.

But you sure blame police for drunk driving.

yet another really weird, out of nowhere, non-factual statement by you about me.

I rest my case.

What case?

All you've done is ask for the sort of personal information most posters here wouldn't share with you, and pretend RavenSky's refusal to oblige somehow proves your point about cops not being at fault when people say some of them are abusive.

Since when having or not having a cellphone is a personal information?

 

[Arctish]

and I repeat, I will not answer any more of your crazy questions, and I find your continued obsession with this situation to be very weird. You have already shown yourself to be detached from any sort of rational reality with regard to this *discussion* by imagining that I disrupted the que outside of the park, that I was drunk, that I was a decoy for bombers, or that I was hysterical. You arbitrarily bring up math and talking on cell phone while driving and all manner of unrelated nonsense. Because of your entirely irrational behavior towards me from your very first post to me about my exoerience with the bully cop, I have zero intention of discussing it any further with you. You need to get yourself under control and stop obsessing on me and my daughter.

But you sure blame police for drunk driving.

yet another really weird, out of nowhere, non-factual statement by you about me.

I rest my case.

- - - Updated - - -

It is you who is weird. I know most kids have cell phones now, and the main reason I believe safety. Someone like you sure knows that already. So you being weirdly obtuse is not warranted here.
So I repeat my question, did she have a cellphone?

and I repeat, I will not answer any more of your crazy questions, and I find your continued obsession with this situation to be very weird. You have already shown yourself to be detached from any sort of rational reality with regard to this *discussion* by imagining that I disrupted the que outside of the park, that I was drunk, that I was a decoy for bombers, or that I was hysterical. You arbitrarily bring up math and talking on cell phone while driving and all manner of unrelated nonsense. Because of your entirely irrational behavior towards me from your very first post to me about my exoerience with the bully cop, I have zero intention of discussing it any further with you. You need to get yourself under control and stop obsessing on me and my daughter.

But you sure blame police for drunk driving.

yet another really weird, out of nowhere, non-factual statement by you about me.

I rest my case.

What case?

All you've done is ask for the sort of personal information most posters here wouldn't share with you, and pretend RavenSky's refusal to oblige somehow proves your point about cops not being at fault when people say some of them are abusive.

Since when having or not having a cellphone is a personal information?

Since when are questions about a poster's daughter's cellphone relevant in a discussion about how cops should behave around citizens and vice versa?

I don't know what purpose you think the information might serve, but from where I'm sitting it looks like another attempt to change the topic away from cops behaving badly and onto RavenSky's temperament, mothering, and life choices. That or else you're fishing for info on a possibly still underage girl who can be separated from her parents at a concert.

 

[barbos]

and I repeat, I will not answer any more of your crazy questions, and I find your continued obsession with this situation to be very weird. You have already shown yourself to be detached from any sort of rational reality with regard to this *discussion* by imagining that I disrupted the que outside of the park, that I was drunk, that I was a decoy for bombers, or that I was hysterical. You arbitrarily bring up math and talking on cell phone while driving and all manner of unrelated nonsense. Because of your entirely irrational behavior towards me from your very first post to me about my exoerience with the bully cop, I have zero intention of discussing it any further with you. You need to get yourself under control and stop obsessing on me and my daughter.

But you sure blame police for drunk driving.

yet another really weird, out of nowhere, non-factual statement by you about me.

I rest my case.

- - - Updated - - -

It is you who is weird. I know most kids have cell phones now, and the main reason I believe safety. Someone like you sure knows that already. So you being weirdly obtuse is not warranted here.
So I repeat my question, did she have a cellphone?

and I repeat, I will not answer any more of your crazy questions, and I find your continued obsession with this situation to be very weird. You have already shown yourself to be detached from any sort of rational reality with regard to this *discussion* by imagining that I disrupted the que outside of the park, that I was drunk, that I was a decoy for bombers, or that I was hysterical. You arbitrarily bring up math and talking on cell phone while driving and all manner of unrelated nonsense. Because of your entirely irrational behavior towards me from your very first post to me about my exoerience with the bully cop, I have zero intention of discussing it any further with you. You need to get yourself under control and stop obsessing on me and my daughter.

But you sure blame police for drunk driving.

yet another really weird, out of nowhere, non-factual statement by you about me.

I rest my case.

What case?

All you've done is ask for the sort of personal information most posters here wouldn't share with you, and pretend RavenSky's refusal to oblige somehow proves your point about cops not being at fault when people say some of them are abusive.

Since when having or not having a cellphone is a personal information?

Since when are questions about a poster's daughter's cellphone relevant in a discussion about how cops should behave around citizens and vice versa? I don't know what purpose you think the information might serve, but from where I'm sitting it looks like another attempt to change the topic away from cops behaving badly and onto RavenSky's temperament, mothering, and life choices.

Argumentum Ad Let's-talk-about-you-instead.

You have not answered my question