Immigration Issues

[laughing dog]

The immigration bill was just a typical political ruse of Democrat obfuscation.

Even you should see how useless this bill really was given that Trump has fixed the border without needing it. We don't need any more bills or problems caused by congress we just needed to enforce the laws we have.

If the border is fixed, why are we still building border walls?

 

[TV and credit cards]

Who do you suppose will work in fields if there are no migrant workers? Who will work in meat processing plants? As personal care attendants? In nursing homes?

Of course you blame Biden even though Trump gave orders to derail a good bipartisan immigration bill.

I suppose it is something that you believe more compassion could be used. Damn cold comfort, especially since people are dying, children separated from parents, and people being sent deliberately to hell holes, sometimes in foreign countries where they have no connection, no rights, and no future except as entertainment for sadists.

Present day robots and automation can already do most of the agriculture work furthermore AI will soon be able to do personal care in the near future. Even without this supposed technology Americans can and will do any job if the price is correct with the market.

Instead of seeking bottom wage slaves, business needs to work smarter, be more competitive, and become more productive. That way everyone who wants a good job has one and everyone has goods they can consume.

B In fact, this is listed as one area that is safest from AI so says a report out just today by Microsoft.

Your second statement makes no sense whatsoever. Labor is typically the biggest expense for business. To work smarter would be to look at cutting your biggest expenses. And doesn't greater productivity lead to the need for fewer workers.

 

[ZiprHead]

Has President Joe Biden taken down the southern border wall that former President Donald Trump built? No, that's not true: On Biden's first day in office, January 20, 2021, he ordered a "pause in construction and obligation of funds" relating to the expansion of the border wall Trump had decreed. Biden's order says nothing about tearing down the part of the wall between the United States and Mexico built during the Trump administration. In fact, Biden's order gives the option of resuming wall projects.

The claim appeared in a Facebook post (archived here) published March 28, 2021. The post contains a meme with a photo of a man pressing his index finger and thumb together to form a circle. The text of the meme states:

In the final analysis, the immigrants came across the border during Biden's administration and they are returning under Trumps.

On the subject of border security, I could care less if there was a border wall at all as long as we aren't over run and invaded by immigrants. And yes an argument can be made that Trump is not being compassionate about sending these people back that should have not come in the first place.

But there is no question that Trump is now succeeding where Biden failed abysmally.

Biden was following the laws we had in place at the time. Updated legislation was written with almost full support of the Republicans in congress and who helped write it, and Biden was willing to sign it. The Republicans withdrew their support when Trump told them to so he could have the border issue as a campaign talking point. He substituted reasonable legislation for cruelty.

 

[southernhybrid]

View attachment 51600

https://democrats-homeland.house.gov/imo/media/doc/letter_re_dallas_ice_counsel_to_noem.pdf

While he is correct that America was indeed founded by whites and historically white they will no longer be a majority of the population. Not because of immigration but because whites decided they don't like to have kids anymore.

What does it matter what race or ethnicity someone is? We are all humans for better or worse. I'm white and I think I have at least as many close black friends as I do white ones in Georgia. They are all good people who I still keep in touch with by phone. In fact, my black friends are the best as they tend to be more caring and friendly compared to some of my white friends.

I'm currently living in Indianapolis and while I'm not fond of this city for many reasons, I'm enjoying the extreme cultural diversity due to the high number of immigrants, allowing me to enjoy eating all kinds of tasty ethnic food. I love cultural diversity. It's what makes us stronger. It's what makes life more interesting. Most would be here legally if we made it easier for the good ones to come to our country. We are all descended from immigrants. My husband's grandmother was from Syria and his grandfather from Lebanon. I have a lot of Irish and Polish in my background. Irish and Polish immigrants were hated in the early 20th Century, despite being white. I don't understand it. What is your problem?

And, btw, when I was still working as a nurse plenty of the white women had at least 3 or 4 kids, although sometimes the baby daddy was a black man. These were all poor women, so I suspected they had so many kids for two reasons. Either because they were careless or unable to access birth control or because their kids gave them a purpose in life. I also worked with a couple of immigrant women. The one from Haiti was one of the dearest people I've ever worked with. Three of my patients in long term care were immigrants. One was from Iran.She was very sweet but due to dementia, she had lost her ability to speak English so she only spoke Farsi. I still remember her playing with the cat that lived on the property. One was from Japan and one was Mexican. I enjoyed caring for all of them.

Several years ago, I got to know two undocumented Mexican immigrants. They were very kind. He worked in a Mexican restaurant as a cook. Americans seem to like Tex/Mex food so who is going to cook that food if not for Mexicans?

 

[Toni]

Who do you suppose will work in fields if there are no migrant workers? Who will work in meat processing plants? As personal care attendants? In nursing homes?

Of course you blame Biden even though Trump gave orders to derail a good bipartisan immigration bill.

I suppose it is something that you believe more compassion could be used. Damn cold comfort, especially since people are dying, children separated from parents, and people being sent deliberately to hell holes, sometimes in foreign countries where they have no connection, no rights, and no future except as entertainment for sadists.

Present day robots and automation can already do most of the agriculture work furthermore AI will soon be able to do personal care in the near future. Even without this supposed technology Americans can and will do any job if the price is correct with the market.

Instead of seeking bottom wage slaves, business needs to work smarter, be more competitive, and become more productive. That way everyone who wants a good job has one and everyone has goods they can consume.

But they don’t! There is a lot of farm work that cannot be automated.

I actually spent a summer working in the fields. In my youth, kids often did do day labor, detailing corn and other low skill work.

Your statement that businesses need to quit ‘seeking bottom wage slaves,’ what do you propose? Not what I would propose which is to pay all employees decent, livable wages.

 

[ZiprHead]

 

[RVonse]

If present day robots could do the work, they would be doing the work. I imagine there are some small number of persons, perhaps such as yourself, who would find having personal care done by Robert’s to be sufficient and an adequate substitute for human touch and connection but damn few would.

If present day robots could do the work, they would be doing the work.

You blame immigrants for coming to the US for better wages instead of blaming US corporations for hiring immigrants at lesser wages. Why?

If present day robots could do the work, they would be doing the work. I imagine there are some small number of persons, perhaps such as yourself, who would find having personal care done by Robert’s to be sufficient and an adequate substitute for human touch and connection but damn few would.

There is NOTHING now that prevents industries from hiring American workers for better wages and better work conditions except the desire for larger profits.

You blame immigrants for coming to the US for better wages instead of blaming US corporations for hiring immigrants at lesser wages. Why?

"If present day robots could do the work, they would be doing the work." Totally false. If Elon Musk can catch a rocket mid air I can assure you any agriculture job can and will be automated given the effort. Present technology robots can do this work, it is simply not cost effective to invest that amount of capital now since it is just more practical to hire someone who will pick the crops for an ultra low wage.

"There is NOTHING now that prevents industries from hiring American workers for better wages and better work conditions except the desire for larger profits." The economics of Biden's open border is what has and attempted to prevent hiring Americans. Had there been no one else to hire, industries would have hired Americans for the current market price or they would have invested in automation. That is how automation found its way into the auto factories because after workers eventually became unionized management decided that automation would then be economical for their business model.

"You blame immigrants for coming to the US for better wages instead of blaming US corporations for hiring immigrants at lesser wages. Why?"
Totally false. I do not blame either the immigrants or the US corporations for hiring them. I blame our government (specifically the Democrats and Biden administration) for allowing them to enter our country in the first place. These people present a problem to our country we should not have to even deal with.

 

[RVonse]

Your statement that businesses need to quit ‘seeking bottom wage slaves,’ what do you propose? Not what I would propose which is to pay all employees decent, livable wages.

I propose the exact business model that followed high wage unionization of the auto plants. Robots and automation. This offers the leverage that 1 person can now do what it used to take 15 people. The end result is high productivity, high wages, but cheaper and higher quality products. Both management and labor wins in the long run. The government itself also wins because there is more tax revenue and less people needing welfare.

 

[RVonse]

I love cultural diversity. It's what makes us stronger. It's what makes life more interesting.

I like diversity too. And yes I agree it makes life more interesting.

But it surely does not make the nation stronger. It does not make us stronger because we can not communicate with those who speak a different language. It does not make us stronger when we become confused over cultural differences. Nor does it help having a country fighting with each other all the time. Unity is what makes any organization including a country much stronger.

 

[Toni]

If present day robots could do the work, they would be doing the work. I imagine there are some small number of persons, perhaps such as yourself, who would find having personal care done by Robert’s to be sufficient and an adequate substitute for human touch and connection but damn few would.

If present day robots could do the work, they would be doing the work.

You blame immigrants for coming to the US for better wages instead of blaming US corporations for hiring immigrants at lesser wages. Why?

If present day robots could do the work, they would be doing the work. I imagine there are some small number of persons, perhaps such as yourself, who would find having personal care done by Robert’s to be sufficient and an adequate substitute for human touch and connection but damn few would.

There is NOTHING now that prevents industries from hiring American workers for better wages and better work conditions except the desire for larger profits.

You blame immigrants for coming to the US for better wages instead of blaming US corporations for hiring immigrants at lesser wages. Why?

"If present day robots could do the work, they would be doing the work." Totally false. If Elon Musk can catch a rocket mid air I can assure you any agriculture job can and will be automated given the effort. Present technology robots can do this work, it is simply not cost effective to invest that amount of capital now since it is just more practical to hire someone who will pick the crops for an ultra low wage.

"There is NOTHING now that prevents industries from hiring American workers for better wages and better work conditions except the desire for larger profits." The economics of Biden's open border is what has and attempted to prevent hiring Americans. Had there been no one else to hire, industries would have hired Americans for the current market price or they would have invested in automation. That is how automation found its way into the auto factories because after workers eventually became unionized management decided that automation would then be economical for their business model.

"You blame immigrants for coming to the US for better wages instead of blaming US corporations for hiring immigrants at lesser wages. Why?"
Totally false. I do not blame either the immigrants or the US corporations for hiring them. I blame our government (specifically the Democrats and Biden administration) for allowing them to enter our country in the first place. These people present a problem to our country we should not have to even deal with.

Do you know anything at all about growing food crops? Or the difference between feed crops and fuel crops and industrial crops? Do you know how strawberries are grown and harvested?

The fact that Elon Musk devoted his time and money on vanity space rockets that blow up ( on the governments dime) instead of doing something useful to help people and playing politics to gain access to your personal, private information—and mine, all the better to make even more obscene amounts of money.

You are badly badly misinformed about immigration.

 

[jonatha]

You are badly badly misinformed about immigration.

FTFY

 

[scombrid]

Your statement that businesses need to quit ‘seeking bottom wage slaves,’ what do you propose? Not what I would propose which is to pay all employees decent, livable wages.

I propose the exact business model that followed high wage unionization of the auto plants. Robots and automation. This offers the leverage that 1 person can now do what it used to take 15 people. The end result is high productivity, high wages, but cheaper and higher quality products. Both management and labor wins in the long run. The government itself also wins because there is more tax revenue and less people needing welfare.

What do the other 14 people do?

 

[robnisch]

Your statement that businesses need to quit ‘seeking bottom wage slaves,’ what do you propose? Not what I would propose which is to pay all employees decent, livable wages.

I propose the exact business model that followed high wage unionization of the auto plants. Robots and automation. This offers the leverage that 1 person can now do what it used to take 15 people. The end result is high productivity, high wages, but cheaper and higher quality products. Both management and labor wins in the long run. The government itself also wins because there is more tax revenue and less people needing welfare.

What do the other 14 people do?

Learn to code, of course.

 

[robnisch]

Many crops are still harvested by hand because robot just cannot yet do the hand eye thing very fast. Blueberries, strawberries, melons, apples, oranges. Wages would have to be over $25/hr. for a farmer to even think about robots.
Have you ever picked strawberries in the hot sun for 8-10 hrs. a day?

 

[ZiprHead]

Your statement that businesses need to quit ‘seeking bottom wage slaves,’ what do you propose? Not what I would propose which is to pay all employees decent, livable wages.

I propose the exact business model that followed high wage unionization of the auto plants. Robots and automation. This offers the leverage that 1 person can now do what it used to take 15 people. The end result is high productivity, high wages, but cheaper and higher quality products. Both management and labor wins in the long run. The government itself also wins because there is more tax revenue and less people needing welfare.

What do the other 14 people do?

Learn to code, of course.

That will soon be replaced by AI too. Probably a lot sooner than other professions.

 

[pood]

I love cultural diversity. It's what makes us stronger. It's what makes life more interesting.

I like diversity too. And yes I agree it makes life more interesting.

But it surely does not make the nation stronger. It does not make us stronger because we can not communicate with those who speak a different language. It does not make us stronger when we become confused over cultural differences. Nor does it help having a country fighting with each other all the time. Unity is what makes any organization including a country much stronger.

You are totally full of shit. Diversity does make us stronger. I live in NYC and see it firsthand. Yesterday I had halal food from a Muslim food cart and then visited a friend of Guatemalan/Mayan descent who lives in Chinatown where the Chinese street vendors sell exotic tropical fruits like rambutan and kaleesh. My friend and I watched a Korean movie. I have a friend who is undocumented Mexican immigrant who toils at shit work every waking hour to send money back home to relatives. Sometimes he sleeps where he works. He is not exploiting the U.S. — the U.S. is exploiting him. The things you say about immigrants are the same things that were said of Irish, Polish, German and other immigrants in the 19th century. Just watch the movie Gangs of New York. Your smug, insular ignorance is repulsive.

 

[ZiprHead]

I like diversity too. And yes I agree it makes life more interesting.

But it surely does not make the nation stronger. It does not make us stronger because we can not communicate with those who speak a different language. It does not make us stronger when we become confused over cultural differences. Nor does it help having a country fighting with each other all the time. Unity is what makes any organization including a country much stronger.

Yes, it does.

5. Taxes​

Undocumented immigrants pay billions of dollars in taxes annually. Households headed by unauthorized immigrants paid $10.6 billion in state and local taxes in 2010. This includes $1.2 billion in personal income taxes, $1.2 billion in property taxes, and more than $8 billion in sales and excise taxes. Immigrants—even legal immigrants—are barred from most social services, meaning that they pay to support benefits they cannot even receive.

How can undocumented workers further power our economy?​

“Granting citizenship to undocumented immigrants would create jobs and increase tax revenues. If undocumented immigrants acquired legal status today and citizenship in five years, the economy would add an average of 159,000 new jobs per year, and formerly unauthorized workers would pay an additional $144 billion in federal, state, and local taxes over a 10-year period.”

Five ways undocumented immigrants are powering the American economy

Explore the many ways that undocumented immigrant workers drive the economy of the United States

www.ilr.cornell.edu

 

[pood]

Facts, not fear: how welcoming immigrants benefits New York

The facts show that immigration, both legal AND illegal, has remade and revitalized NYC since the fiscal crises of the 1970s.

Some people are immune to facts. I suspect they are mainly concerned about skin color.

 

[southernhybrid]

I love cultural diversity. It's what makes us stronger. It's what makes life more interesting.

I like diversity too. And yes I agree it makes life more interesting.

But it surely does not make the nation stronger. It does not make us stronger because we can not communicate with those who speak a different language. It does not make us stronger when we become confused over cultural differences. Nor does it help having a country fighting with each other all the time. Unity is what makes any organization including a country much stronger.

Your post sounds sounds full of bigotry to say the least. And, guess what? Although my Spanish isn't very good, the two non English speaking immigrants that I knew several years ago could communicate with me via our phones. There are apps on smart phones that instantly translate from one language to another. Most immigrants do speak at least some English, even if they have a strong accent and in my experience over the years, most of them also do their best to try and learn English.

The Center for Inquiry here in Indianapolis even has a class for non English speakers to learn English. My husband's late grandmother had an accent but despite Arabic being her native language, she also spoke in English. My husband who was born here regrets that his parents never taught him to speak Arabic. My late great grandmother spoke Polish and English and one of my late grandmothers spoke German and English. Every immigrant who works in the local ethnic restaurants here speaks enough English to do a good job at work. Who are these people fighting over cultural differences?

I don't understand your comment regarding cultural differences. My husband taught me how to make several typical Arabic foods that I enjoy. Most of my high school friends were of Italian background and I learned a lot about their warm, embracing culture as well as enjoying their delicious food. My small town in Georgia has about 6 Mexican restaurants and almost all the people who eat there are native born Americans. It's not different cultures who are fighting these days. it's people with different political views who are fighting.

I think there was probably more infighting among cultures in the past then what I see these days. I once lived close to Philadelphia and I jokingly referred to it as the city of brotherly hate because it seemed as if people of different ethnic backgrounds criticized each other a lot and I'm speaking of English speaking white people. I hope things have changed in Philly these days as that was over 50 yeas ago.


Immigrants have made our country stronger and who among us doesn't have immigrants in our backgrounds?

 

[TV and credit cards]

I propose the exact business model that followed high wage unionization of the auto plants. Robots and automation. This offers the leverage that 1 person can now do what it used to take 15 people. The end result is high productivity, high wages, but cheaper and higher quality products. Both management and labor wins in the long run. The government itself also wins because there is more tax revenue and less people needing welfare.

Labor wins. Business wins. Government wins. Everyone wins. Yet here we are.

Why make high quality goods? High quality goods last a long time. Wouldn't it be more profitable to plan the obsolescence of an item? I'd make products that lasted or had a satisfaction level commensurate with the price. Like the item doesn't have to necessarily break after X number of years but just manufacture some small inconvenience or undesirable aspect into the product that leaves the buyer less than satisfied but not so much so that they might return it. Just enough that they will be wanting the newer model in X number of years.
A lifetime of examples available upon request.