Individuals with aggressive, rule-breaking and anti-social tendencies are over-represented among executive leadership

[untermensche]

What do you mean they "start" a company?

If they need other people they haven't started anything. All the people involved have started something.

If a person can make money through their own efforts they can dictate to themselves.

If they need other people there is nothing that gives them the right to dictate.

If I need you I have no right what-so-ever to dictate over you.

The person who organizes it and supplies the needed tools starts the company.

Your inability to see the value in these things doesn't make them go away.

If those needed tools are other people then it is ALL the people that start the company, not just the wanna-be dictator.

But this is how it is when people are blinded to dictatorial systems.

To them only the dictators matter. All other people are somehow invisible and somehow unnecessary.

When the real truth is it is the dictator who is superfluous.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

The person who organizes it and supplies the needed tools starts the company.

Your inability to see the value in these things doesn't make them go away.

If those needed tools are other people then it is ALL the people that start the company, not just the wanna-be dictator.

But this is how it is when people are blinded to dictatorial systems.

To them only the dictators matter. All other people are somehow invisible and somehow unnecessary.

When the real truth is it is the dictator who is superfluous.

Did they contribute capital (including sweat capital) or were they simply employees? Employees aren't founders.

 

[Harry Bosch]

When you hire a person to work on your personal house, do you dictate to him what to do?

Not at all.

They do the work when THEY say they can, and tell me how they are going to do it and how much it will cost.

I may have a goal outlined, but how and when that goal is reached is up to them.

But of course in a company the workers don't need anybody to tell them the goals. They can easily figure that out for themselves.

In a company the dictator is ENTIRELY superfluous.

The workers are essential.

I don't believe you. I don't believe that you'd hire a plumber to fix your toilet and then allow him to set his price without checking to see if his price was reasonable. Do you share the ownership of your home with the workers who maintain it?

 

[untermensche]

If those needed tools are other people then it is ALL the people that start the company, not just the wanna-be dictator.

But this is how it is when people are blinded to dictatorial systems.

To them only the dictators matter. All other people are somehow invisible and somehow unnecessary.

When the real truth is it is the dictator who is superfluous.

Did they contribute capital (including sweat capital) or were they simply employees? Employees aren't founders.

Simply employees?

You mean essential labor?

And if they were laboring from the beginning they are the founders, not only the dictator.

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Not at all.

They do the work when THEY say they can, and tell me how they are going to do it and how much it will cost.

I may have a goal outlined, but how and when that goal is reached is up to them.

But of course in a company the workers don't need anybody to tell them the goals. They can easily figure that out for themselves.

In a company the dictator is ENTIRELY superfluous.

The workers are essential.

I don't believe you. I don't believe that you'd hire a plumber to fix your toilet and then allow him to set his price without checking to see if his price was reasonable. Do you share the ownership of your home with the workers who maintain it?

I am not a dictator standing between the laborer and the fruits of their labor.

The immorality of capitalism is the taking of the fruits of labor and giving a "market wage" for it. It is theft and it is accomplished through the use of dictatorship.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Did they contribute capital (including sweat capital) or were they simply employees? Employees aren't founders.

Simply employees?

You mean essential labor?

And if they were laboring from the beginning they are the founders, not only the dictator.

Businesses start with an idea and a business plan. Those are the founders, not the guy who is hired on day 1.

I am not a dictator standing between the laborer and the fruits of their labor.

The immorality of capitalism is the taking of the fruits of labor and giving a "market wage" for it. It is theft and it is accomplished through the use of dictatorship.

No, you're a dictator standing between investors and the fruits of their investments. In your world there would be no investment.

 

[untermensche]

Simply employees?

You mean essential labor?

And if they were laboring from the beginning they are the founders, not only the dictator.

Businesses start with an idea and a business plan. Those are the founders, not the guy who is hired on day 1.

They are not the founders. They are the part of the founders that had an idea.

In no way does having an idea or money entitle one to dictate over another who is essential.

It really is grotesque to read this squirming praise of dictatorship. It is one of the most inefficient and immoral forms of human interaction ever devised.

No, you're a dictator standing between investors and the fruits of their investments. In your world there would be no investment.

You think it moral to buy a dictatorship.

You have no morality or ethics.

You simply worship money over human life.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Businesses start with an idea and a business plan. Those are the founders, not the guy who is hired on day 1.

They are not the founders. They are the part of the founders that had an idea.

In no way does having an idea or money entitle one to dictate over another who is essential.

It really is grotesque to read this squirming praise of dictatorship. It is one of the most inefficient and immoral forms of human interaction ever devised.

No, you're a dictator standing between investors and the fruits of their investments. In your world there would be no investment.

You think it moral to buy a dictatorship.

You have no morality or ethics.

You simply worship money over human life.

You're not even trying to rebut me.

You seem to think that something which is fair but nonfunctional is superior to something which isn't quite as fair but is functional. In the real world things that work are superior to things that don't.

 

[rousseau]

They are not the founders. They are the part of the founders that had an idea.

In no way does having an idea or money entitle one to dictate over another who is essential.

It really is grotesque to read this squirming praise of dictatorship. It is one of the most inefficient and immoral forms of human interaction ever devised.

No, you're a dictator standing between investors and the fruits of their investments. In your world there would be no investment.

You think it moral to buy a dictatorship.

You have no morality or ethics.

You simply worship money over human life.

You're not even trying to rebut me.

You seem to think that something which is fair but nonfunctional is superior to something which isn't quite as fair but is functional. In the real world things that work are superior to things that don't.

As far as I see it it's not even about 'working' vs 'not-working', it's about what reality is and isn't.

An important component, maybe even the most important component of politics, is idealism, but so is understanding the framework you're working in (how the world actually works). And in reality human organizations have been almost exclusively hierarchical for not just recorded history, but likely for the brunt of our history as a species.

 

[coloradoatheist]

They are not the founders. They are the part of the founders that had an idea.

In no way does having an idea or money entitle one to dictate over another who is essential.

It really is grotesque to read this squirming praise of dictatorship. It is one of the most inefficient and immoral forms of human interaction ever devised.

No, you're a dictator standing between investors and the fruits of their investments. In your world there would be no investment.

You think it moral to buy a dictatorship.

You have no morality or ethics.

You simply worship money over human life.

You're not even trying to rebut me.

You seem to think that something which is fair but nonfunctional is superior to something which isn't quite as fair but is functional. In the real world things that work are superior to things that don't.

As far as I see it it's not even about 'working' vs 'not-working', it's about what reality is and isn't.

An important component, maybe even the most important component of politics, is idealism, but so is understanding the framework you're working in (how the world actually works). And in reality human organizations have been almost exclusively hierarchical for not just recorded history, but likely for the brunt of our history as a species.

Of course because any group of people that grows beyond a few people will do a divide and conquer of task which leads to some hierarchy. Doesn't take long for kids to realize to do a large project roles need to be split up and someone runs the project.

 

[untermensche]

They are not the founders. They are the part of the founders that had an idea.

In no way does having an idea or money entitle one to dictate over another who is essential.

It really is grotesque to read this squirming praise of dictatorship. It is one of the most inefficient and immoral forms of human interaction ever devised.

No, you're a dictator standing between investors and the fruits of their investments. In your world there would be no investment.

You think it moral to buy a dictatorship.

You have no morality or ethics.

You simply worship money over human life.

You're not even trying to rebut me.

You seem to think that something which is fair but nonfunctional is superior to something which isn't quite as fair but is functional. In the real world things that work are superior to things that don't.

You've been rebutted thoroughly.

But once again you are too dull to know it.

Your position is that with money people should be able to buy themselves a dictatorship.

And your position is also that people that are working from the beginning of a company are not the founders.

The first position is devoid of human morality and the second devoid of sanity.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

They are not the founders. They are the part of the founders that had an idea.

In no way does having an idea or money entitle one to dictate over another who is essential.

It really is grotesque to read this squirming praise of dictatorship. It is one of the most inefficient and immoral forms of human interaction ever devised.

No, you're a dictator standing between investors and the fruits of their investments. In your world there would be no investment.

You think it moral to buy a dictatorship.

You have no morality or ethics.

You simply worship money over human life.

You're not even trying to rebut me.

You seem to think that something which is fair but nonfunctional is superior to something which isn't quite as fair but is functional. In the real world things that work are superior to things that don't.

You've been rebutted thoroughly.

But once again you are too dull to know it.

Your position is that with money people should be able to buy themselves a dictatorship.

And your position is also that people that are working from the beginning of a company are not the founders.

The first position is devoid of human morality and the second devoid of sanity.

One dictatorship would be very bad. However, a whole bunch of competing dictatorships aren't a problem.

 

[untermensche]

One dictatorship would be very bad. However, a whole bunch of competing dictatorships aren't a problem.

A bunch of immoral dictatorships destroys human innovation and creates a population of unthinking drones.

Dictatorship in the workplace is as immoral as it is in government.

 

[coloradoatheist]

One dictatorship would be very bad. However, a whole bunch of competing dictatorships aren't a problem.

A bunch of immoral dictatorships destroys human innovation and creates a population of unthinking drones.

Dictatorship in the workplace is as immoral as it is in government.

So when that plumber comes to your house and says, "hey it will take 2 hours to fix the problem but I am going to charge you for 4 because the 2nd two hours I want to use your internet and watch porn" You'll say "yes"?

 

[untermensche]

A bunch of immoral dictatorships destroys human innovation and creates a population of unthinking drones.

Dictatorship in the workplace is as immoral as it is in government.

So when that plumber comes to your house and says, "hey it will take 2 hours to fix the problem but I am going to charge you for 4 because the 2nd two hours I want to use your internet and watch porn" You'll say "yes"?

You're not discussing the workplace situation of most people.

You are discussing an individual worker out on their own. And it is not possible to steal the fruits of the individual worker out on their own. They get all the fruits, as it should be.

I am discussing conditions of the workplace, a dictatorial hierarchy, where those at the top, due to their power within the organization, steal the fruits of labor from workers and replace it with a "market wage" IOW the lowest possible price.

Your strawman arguments are an evasion from this immorality. Almost a defense of it.

 

[coloradoatheist]

So when that plumber comes to your house and says, "hey it will take 2 hours to fix the problem but I am going to charge you for 4 because the 2nd two hours I want to use your internet and watch porn" You'll say "yes"?

You're not discussing the workplace situation of most people.

You are discussing an individual worker out on their own. And it is not possible to steal the fruits of the individual worker out on their own. They get all the fruits, as it should be.

I am discussing conditions of the workplace, a dictatorial hierarchy, where those at the top, due to their power within the organization, steal the fruits of labor from workers and replace it with a "market wage" IOW the lowest possible price.

Your strawman arguments are an evasion from this immorality. Almost a defense of it.

You are being a dictator when you tell the plumber to fix the plumbing and not just come over and watch TV and play on the Internet. So under your belief a system where nobody works but there are no bosses is better than our system. How many people would want to live in a system where there is no trade?

 

[untermensche]

You're not discussing the workplace situation of most people.

You are discussing an individual worker out on their own. And it is not possible to steal the fruits of the individual worker out on their own. They get all the fruits, as it should be.

I am discussing conditions of the workplace, a dictatorial hierarchy, where those at the top, due to their power within the organization, steal the fruits of labor from workers and replace it with a "market wage" IOW the lowest possible price.

Your strawman arguments are an evasion from this immorality. Almost a defense of it.

You are being a dictator when you tell the plumber to fix the plumbing and not just come over and watch TV and play on the Internet. So under your belief a system where nobody works but there are no bosses is better than our system. How many people would want to live in a system where there is no trade?

I am being a customer.

You confuse a dictator stealing fruits within a power structure constructed for that purpose, with the customer.

 

[coloradoatheist]

You are being a dictator when you tell the plumber to fix the plumbing and not just come over and watch TV and play on the Internet. So under your belief a system where nobody works but there are no bosses is better than our system. How many people would want to live in a system where there is no trade?

I am being a customer.

You confuse a dictator stealing fruits within a power structure constructed for that purpose, with the customer.

No, because I am selling my labor the same way, the company is the customer for me. They can dictate the terms of how I work and I can accept or not accept the conditions. And your case you can accept or not accept what they are selling to you.

 

[ksen]

You are being a dictator when you tell the plumber to fix the plumbing and not just come over and watch TV and play on the Internet. So under your belief a system where nobody works but there are no bosses is better than our system. How many people would want to live in a system where there is no trade?

I am being a customer.

You confuse a dictator stealing fruits within a power structure constructed for that purpose, with the customer.

He's not confusing anything. He's just doing his normal thing.

 

[untermensche]

I am being a customer.

You confuse a dictator stealing fruits within a power structure constructed for that purpose, with the customer.

No, because I am selling my labor the same way, the company is the customer for me. They can dictate the terms of how I work and I can accept or not accept the conditions. And your case you can accept or not accept what they are selling to you.

A customer is not somebody you steal from.

The dictatorial arrangement in business is strictly for theft. It has no other purpose.

 

[coloradoatheist]

No, because I am selling my labor the same way, the company is the customer for me. They can dictate the terms of how I work and I can accept or not accept the conditions. And your case you can accept or not accept what they are selling to you.

A customer is not somebody you steal from.

The dictatorial arrangement in business is strictly for theft. It has no other purpose.

Your definition of theft is very funny, but the same thing can be applied to me buying anything. If the right price of a hamburger is really $.79 cents and McD is charging $.99 then they are stealing 20 cents from me. If it's really $1.09 then I am stealing ten cents from McDonalds.

The agreement between employer and employee is the mutual decision, there is no right price.

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I am being a customer.

You confuse a dictator stealing fruits within a power structure constructed for that purpose, with the customer.

He's not confusing anything. He's just doing his normal thing.

Nope, unter is just making his absurd argument. There is very few people in the country that agree with his definition.