Introducing Seattle Councilwoman Kshama Sawant

[laughing dog]

And as I have pointed out, you have nothing against derision of people on the other side of the spectrum. I on the other hand that radicals on both sides are deserving of derision.

Your unsubstantiated observations reflect your biases and opinions, not reality.

Sure, and we would not even be talking her if she wasn't attracting some nationwide fans.

And the reason you sense that is a relevant response is....?
.

When in doubt, play the race card.

I am not in doubt.

Nothing in what you wrote refutes the fact that she is a radical with kooky ideas that in part hearken to Soviet expropriation policies of almost a century ago. Do I think she will proclaim the Council Republic of Seattle soon? Of course not, but that doesn't mean she isn't an extremist either.

You've demonstrated your reactionary views. However, you have yet to make a cogent case as to why they are warranted.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

What do you mean "effectively"?
According to this there is a push to increase Minnesota min. wage to $9.50. And that is about the state, not the city, the article does mention Minneapolis without saying anything about a higher city min. wage. So where did you get your figure from?

- - - Updated - - -

FDIC worked very well in keeping bank runs from occurring in '08. Minimum wage seems to have worked out well. Axing Social Security is akin to political suicide. Not only have socialistic ideals and programs been enacted, they seem to have worked and are rather popular.

Social programs != socialism.

That's the darnedest thing. Those sorts of programs, except FDIC were part of the SDP platform back in the early 1900s.

 

[Derec]

That's the darnedest thing. Those sorts of programs, except FDIC were part of the SDP platform back in the early 1900s.

Were they the only planks of their platform or did they have other, properly socialistic planks like state ownership of means of production (Sawant supports that too)?

- - - Updated - - -

I am not in doubt.

So playing the race card is your go-to smear then?

 

[AthenaAwakened]

So what? Nobody said she got the seat in a cereal box.

you do know she is on record as opposing and critiquing the govt of the former soviet union? Of course you don't.

According to the wikipedia entry you posted, she is in favor of expropriating luxurious homes and turning them into public housing. Soviet Union followed that same policy, as dramatized in the movie "Dr. Zhivago".
She also favors "nationalizing" companies like Boeing.
What aspect of Soviet Union did she criticize exactly? Because one can certainly criticize certain actions of a government while applauding others.

yeah because the last thing anyone would want is an outbreak of democracy in the US.

My point was that if they voted for her for reasons other than agreeing with her far out positions there is hope they will vote her out next time around. Which should be next year due to reorganization of the Council.

then offer a critique and turn the flame down.

As if criticism of tea party members was a low flame affair. Not they most didn't deserve it though.

increase take home pay
Increase public revenues and resources in order to provide more public services to citizenry
And fight back against an ideology that preaches that being a jerk is really a legitimate political/social/economic/curtural stance and not a cover for people who are social and emotional misfits incapable of liking or being liked by anyone and have therefore decided to hate as many people as possible..

What does any of that have to do with state ownership of the means of production which is the cornerstone of socialism?
But in detail, "increase take home pay" and "increase public revenues" are antithetical goals.
Also "fight back against people being jerks" is neither a cogent policy position nor in any recognizable way linked to socialism. For example, Stalin was a major league jerk.

you do know the USSR is no more
The woman herself has publically stated she is against the soviet style of government
But if your vocabulary and knowledge with regard to socialism, Marxism, communism, etc., is too limited to speak about anything but Stalinism

Go for it
I ain't got to waste my time reading it

Haters got to hate.

HOLD UP!

"But in detail, "increase take home pay" and "increase public revenues" are antithetical goals. "

So for all these years when rightwingers kept saying tax cuts would put more money in your pocket and raise more revenue by getting rid of loopholes, it was all a lie???? Rightwingers are LIARS???

Jesus, Mary, and Joseph and all the saints, say it ain't so!!

 

[laughing dog]

So playing the race card is your go-to smear then?

Wow, the irony in that bullshit is overwhelming.

 

[Jolly_Penguin]

I'm with her on occupy. The first few paragraphs have me right with her. But then she falls apart completely. She wants to force unions? Do the workers get a say in that? She wants to take private housing and turn it into the YMCA? And there rest of her platform isn't any more feasible.

Why not focus on liberal policies that can actually work? Like true single payer universal healthcare. Like reversing citizens united and trimming back the money in politics. Like a path to citizenship, rather than just declaring all who sneak into the country an instant citizen (which would just encourage everybody to ignore your immigration policies, no?). The US has swung so far the the right that it is falling apart, but that is no reason to swing it so far to the left that it falls apart just the same. Bring in sane policies. Yeesh.

 

[Underseer]

That hasn't passed yet, has it? A bad idea - that's almost twice the national minimum wage and would make Seattle businesses less competitive. [...]

Ah, so that's why you want the taxpayer bent over a barrel and subsidizing the labor costs of big corporations. To make us "more competitive."

Gotcha. Competition is the reason you love big government and hate the taxpayer. Thanks for clearing that up.

 

[lpetrich]

Seems like the Democrats ought to do with her what the Republicans have been doing with their extremists -- use her as a way of shifting the Overton Window of politics in their direction. They ought to pose as reasonable and sensible and moderate while proposing policies more likely to work than her more extreme policies.

If the Republicans object, then the Democrats should say "We'll repudiate our extremists when you repudiate your extremists."

 

[Underseer]

Seems like the Democrats ought to do with her what the Republicans have been doing with their extremists -- use her as a way of shifting the Overton Window of politics in their direction. They ought to pose as reasonable and sensible and moderate while proposing policies more likely to work than her more extreme policies.

If the Republicans object, then the Democrats should say "We'll repudiate our extremists when you repudiate your extremists."

The Republican party doesn't have any extremists, unless you count the liberal extremists like GW Bush.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Were they the only planks of their platform or did they have other, properly socialistic planks like state ownership of means of production (Sawant supports that too)?

Apparently you are ignorant of what actual socialist want. You seem to be confusing communism with socialism.

 

[AthenaAwakened]

Seems like the Democrats ought to do with her what the Republicans have been doing with their extremists -- use her as a way of shifting the Overton Window of politics in their direction. They ought to pose as reasonable and sensible and moderate while proposing policies more likely to work than her more extreme policies.

If the Republicans object, then the Democrats should say "We'll repudiate our extremists when you repudiate your extremists."

that is the way politics works. The ends of the spectrum pull the middle and keep it honest. When this country had a Left, a legitimate Left, both major parties had left leaning members and the debate was about process not independent reality. No member of the American communist party was ever going to be president, but worker rights could be and were expanded, consumer protections were initiated and the general atmosphere of the culture was not one of fear and pettiness, but of hope and anticipation.

Now all you have a Right pulling at a middle with no resistance.

No wonder the lunatics are running the asylum.

 

[aeebee50]

More socialists.

 

[steve_bnk]

Sounds like the Russian Revolution and the Chinese Cultural Revolution. And Venezuela, Cuba..

What she is essentially proposing is overthrowing the US Constitution set up to protect private enterprise and property rights.

I wish I ended up in Texas instead. I've thought of starting a business in the area, but I doubt it now. Who wants to deal with all that.

Socialists have no better solutions to the structural system problems than anyone else.

Rising manufacturing efficiency lowering labor demand coupled with natural birth rate plus immigration = unemployment and wage stagnation.

Companies will handle the processing for work visas to get immigrants who will work at lower wages. I have seen it. Russian engineers.

Alienate Boeing to the point of ending or severely curtailing manufacturing in the region and the regional economy crashes. A very large trickle down economic effect.

 

[Jolly_Penguin]

Seems like the Democrats ought to do with her what the Republicans have been doing with their extremists -- use her as a way of shifting the Overton Window of politics in their direction. They ought to pose as reasonable and sensible and moderate while proposing policies more likely to work than her more extreme policies.

If the Republicans object, then the Democrats should say "We'll repudiate our extremists when you repudiate your extremists."

Good idea. Leverage our crazies against their crazies.

 

[Perspicuo]

When this country had a Left, a legitimate Left,

What? In power? Never. FDR was Ayn Rand compared to Trotsky.

 

[AthenaAwakened]

When this country had a Left, a legitimate Left,

What? In power? Never. FDR was Ayn Rand compared to Trotsky.

I didn't say the left was in power, just in existence. it need not be in power, just pulling at the reigns of power.

Chris Hedges explains

That is, as Noam Chomsky has pointed out, the role of the liberal establishment, to act as a kind of safety valve, to ameliorate the suffering and respond to some of the grievances of the underclass to right the system, which is again, going back to the New Deal, precisely what happened. Roosevelt, Henry Wallace functioned as traditional liberal leaders functioned. And they keep the system afloat.

Now, the problem is that the radical movements that were able to push the liberal elites to respond have been destroyed. We don't have any anymore. In the long war against our internal and external enemies in the name of anti-communism, they've been utterly decimated, culminating in the 1950s with these huge purges. Ellen Schrecker has written two good books about this. You know, thousands, thousands of high school teachers, social workers, artists, directors, journalists like I. F. Stone were pushed out. I. F. Stone--.

JAY: And particularly trade unionists.

HEDGES: And trade unionists. So you end up with these distortions like, in the 1960s, Meany and Kirkland, who support Nixon's war in Indochina, denounce the hippies in the street. I mean, when Joe Sacco and I did our book Days of Destruction, Days of Revolt, one of the chapters is out of southern West Virginia. Now, pre-World War I, Mother Jones was a hero to the miners, like John Lewis, all of these radical figures. Now it's Sarah Palin and Michele Bachmann.

Why is that? It's because there's been a divorce of radical movements from the working class and radical ideologies from the working class. And the way that divorce came about is that those who had these kind of broad social visions which challenged the primacy of corporate capitalism got pushed out of the system. They're not there anymore. And so now at a moment of crisis--and we are certainly in a moment of crisis--we lack the movements which can give expression to the suffering of our underclass, and our liberal elites which once responded to those movements have been eviscerated and essentially are corporate stooges.

http://truth-out.org/video/item/177...-has-betrayed-the-people-they-claim-to-defend