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Invading the Capitol to protest the electoral vote certification (2016 edition)

There were also some disruptions in state legislatures, such as these.




But somehow they weren't accused of insurgency, treason and trying to overthrow democracy itself ...
 
Omg, those are all even worse than what happened Wednesday.

[TWEET]https://twitter.com/rezahakbari/status/1347610932910952448[/TWEET]

Thanks for bringing this to our attention, it's probably your best whataboutism ever.
 
I was thinking just yesterday it was kind of Trump supporters to top negative reactions to the last election.

When it comes to US elections, I generally expect at least some grumbling about elections being stolen. Sometimes the claims have some credibility such as issues with voter suppression tactics. Some claims certainly strain credibility, such as the rather large number of dead people who seem to vote in deciding numbers every major election. 2000 was kind of a special case. If Trump had won, sure, I'd have expected at least some cries of fraud or foreign interference. I'd expect to hear 'Trump is not my president' or words like 'traitors' or 'treason' to be thrown around especially online. A protest march or two? Yeah, though with covid I don't know what the turnout would have been like.

But this shit was pretty fucked up. It wasn't even the level of conflict we saw--not like we haven't seen shit get out of control before (there have been sports riots with higher death tolls)--but rather the level of delusion and entitlement and how far they actually got with it.
 
krypton iodine sulfur said:
I was thinking just yesterday it was kind of Trump supporters to top negative reactions to the last election.

When it comes to US elections, I generally expect at least some grumbling about elections being stolen. Sometimes the claims have some credibility such as issues with voter suppression tactics. Some claims certainly strain credibility, such as the rather large number of dead people who seem to vote in deciding numbers every major election. 2000 was kind of a special case. If Trump had won, sure, I'd have expected at least some cries of fraud or foreign interference. I'd expect to hear 'Trump is not my president' or words like 'traitors' or 'treason' to be thrown around especially online. A protest march or two? Yeah, though with covid I don't know what the turnout would have been like.

But this shit was pretty fucked up. It wasn't even the level of conflict we saw--not like we haven't seen shit get out of control before (there have been sports riots with higher death tolls)--but rather the level of delusion and entitlement and how far they actually got with it.
Click to expand...
It is starting to come out that there were professional rioters associated with Antifa. And if so, I would not expect any arrests of those individuals.

Another side of this you probably have not heard:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JK6Ht5BFp6I
 
RVonse said:
krypton iodine sulfur said:
I was thinking just yesterday it was kind of Trump supporters to top negative reactions to the last election.

When it comes to US elections, I generally expect at least some grumbling about elections being stolen. Sometimes the claims have some credibility such as issues with voter suppression tactics. Some claims certainly strain credibility, such as the rather large number of dead people who seem to vote in deciding numbers every major election. 2000 was kind of a special case. If Trump had won, sure, I'd have expected at least some cries of fraud or foreign interference. I'd expect to hear 'Trump is not my president' or words like 'traitors' or 'treason' to be thrown around especially online. A protest march or two? Yeah, though with covid I don't know what the turnout would have been like.

But this shit was pretty fucked up. It wasn't even the level of conflict we saw--not like we haven't seen shit get out of control before (there have been sports riots with higher death tolls)--but rather the level of delusion and entitlement and how far they actually got with it.
Click to expand...
It is starting to come out that there were professional rioters associated with Antifa. And if so, I would not expect any arrests of those individuals.

Another side of this you probably have not heard:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JK6Ht5BFp6I
Click to expand...

Yeah, there probably were some Antifa agitators. But they didn't force the MAGAs onto the floor of Congress or enter members' offices. It was so obvious what they were doing was wrong. The damage they did to their political cause is immense. Fucking idiots.
 
RVonse said:
krypton iodine sulfur said:
I was thinking just yesterday it was kind of Trump supporters to top negative reactions to the last election.

When it comes to US elections, I generally expect at least some grumbling about elections being stolen. Sometimes the claims have some credibility such as issues with voter suppression tactics. Some claims certainly strain credibility, such as the rather large number of dead people who seem to vote in deciding numbers every major election. 2000 was kind of a special case. If Trump had won, sure, I'd have expected at least some cries of fraud or foreign interference. I'd expect to hear 'Trump is not my president' or words like 'traitors' or 'treason' to be thrown around especially online. A protest march or two? Yeah, though with covid I don't know what the turnout would have been like.

But this shit was pretty fucked up. It wasn't even the level of conflict we saw--not like we haven't seen shit get out of control before (there have been sports riots with higher death tolls)--but rather the level of delusion and entitlement and how far they actually got with it.
Click to expand...
It is starting to come out that there were professional rioters associated with Antifa. And if so, I would not expect any arrests of those individuals.

Another side of this you probably have not heard:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JK6Ht5BFp6I
Click to expand...

I'm about a third of the way in, but is there a time stamp for when they present some sort of evidence for their claims? Jake Angeli has sought work as an actor at at least some point in his life. He did appear at a BLM rally in 2020, but he was pushing Q Anon at the time. Some sources say he was there to disrupt the rally, but I haven't seen any footage of that. He's seen at other events speaking about Q Anon and praising Trump. He was at a pro-Trump rally early in 2020. The Antifa-angle doesn't appear to have much support. What evidence there is suggests he's been in favour of Trump when he appears at rallies and protests. Whether he is sincere or just trying to ramp up attention or a name for himself or some other motive? Fuck if I know.

https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-...ump-and-qanon-not-antifa-or-blm-idUSKBN29C0BP
https://www.azcentral.com/story/new...in-horns-misrepresented-as-antifa/6589495002/

The thing about police being called off duty is interesting. I'm not sure what to make of that. What is the actual significance if it is true? It could be poor planning. It could support conspiracies favouring Republicans hoping for a disruption or Democrats hoping to paint protestors as extremists. Neither seems that likely. I mean, I don't really know what do do with that particular information. I've never heard of Victory Updates, but I am glad that's what you linked. I've been seeing clips of this dude recently, but until now I had no idea who he was. He started a news-like channel? Good for him, I guess. Seems legit:

[YOUTUBE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VBkegy4aDvk[/YOUTUBE]
 
Derec said:
There were also some disruptions in state legislatures, such as these.




But somehow they weren't accused of insurgency, treason and trying to overthrow democracy itself ...
Click to expand...


Alas, there is a great difference between protestors and armed rebels attempting to overthrow an election who storm a capital and kill officers.
 
Derec said:
There were also some disruptions in state legislatures, such as these.




But somehow they weren't accused of insurgency, treason and trying to overthrow democracy itself ...
Click to expand...


Maybe because they weren't carrying nazi and confederate flags, zip ties, assault weapons, pipe bombs, and Molotov cocktails, and were not ransacking the Capitol building, with the apparent blessing of Capitol Police?
You have to be severely twisted or incredibly stupid - or both - to equivocate these two events.
 
Trausti said:
Yeah, there probably were some Antifa agitators. But they didn't force the MAGAs onto the floor of Congress or enter members' offices. It was so obvious what they were doing was wrong. The damage they did to their political cause is immense. Fucking idiots.
Click to expand...

Yes, because the whole thing is run by a bunch of crazy idiots. This is obvious to anyone with half a brain.
 
Yeah, were these fucking idiots never 12?

Maybe i had a weird youth, but there were always agitators. Growing up, SOMEone would
talk
about breaking into the school, building a catapult, building a ski-jump on the bunny slope, seeing if we could move Mr. Andrews' outhouse four feet further from the house....
Lots of talk.
Then someone might start acting like we were going to do it. Issuing tasks, or just saying, 'C'mon.'

My ideal memories would be the times i did not cross the line with them. Stopping just short of tresspassing, or once i realized we were, in factt, trespassing, whereupon i left, nose clean.

But i sometimes went along. We went too far and i went with them. And i got in trouble. I got in trouble for participating, for crossing the line, and no one gave a rat's furry ass whose idea it was originally, or whether it was intended as a joke from the beginning.

So, okay. Antifa was at the riot. The antiantifa (or, the "fa") still went, expected violence, and got it. They certainly made these alleged antifa agitators' jobs easy.
 
Many of the goofballs made sure their antics assaulting the Capitol building were well photographed on their cell phones and posted to social media. These fools are not going to be hard to track down and arrested. And that building has a very sophisticated communications system that will allow easy access to records of what phones were there that day and their owners. Other faces caught on these devices will probably be easily found also. No, these were not Antifa, these were smirking MAGAt idiots, many of them with lots of MAGAt activity online to demonstrate that. This stunt is not going to be something that these morons can easily laugh off, and it is probable there is not going to be mere wrist slaps for all involved.

As we speak, these sorts of morons are already plotting actions for Biden's inauguration and other activities. Letting morons like this of easy is not an option, it just encourages more of the same.

Loose the hounds.
 
In such a large mob, I find it plausible that there were different sorts of protesters/"revolutionists". Some were probably insurrectionists, some were white supremacists, some were ardent MAGA jackasses who were willing to engage in violence, some were simply MAGAs, maybe some were anti-Maga inciters and some were simply protesters who got carried away by mob fever.

That does not excuse their violence and destruction. And we know that 5 deaths are attributable to this mob violence - one law enforcement officer, one at the hands of law enforcement and apparently three due to some sort of health problem. All of this occurred during a mob invasion of the seat of the US government to stop a constitutionally mandated procedure.

I wonder why the 7 brave Republican patriots of the Senate and the 130 (?) brave Republican House of Representative patriots did not stay, welcome their fellow patriots into the Capitol, and join them in their righteous cause.
 
laughing dog said:
In such a large mob, I find it plausible that there were different sorts of protesters/"revolutionists". Some were probably insurrectionists, some were white supremacists, some were ardent MAGA jackasses who were willing to engage in violence, some were simply MAGAs, maybe some were anti-Maga inciters and some were simply protesters who got carried away by mob fever.

That does not excuse their violence and destruction. And we know that 5 deaths are attributable to this mob violence - one law enforcement officer, one at the hands of law enforcement and apparently three due to some sort of health problem. All of this occurred during a mob invasion of the seat of the US government to stop a constitutionally mandated procedure.

I wonder why the 7 brave Republican patriots of the Senate and the 130 (?) brave Republican House of Representative patriots did not stay, welcome their fellow patriots into the Capitol, and join them in their righteous cause.
Click to expand...

I grant you it does not excuse it. Some of them trampled a person to death, certainly for no good reason. But what do you mean "attributable" to mob violence? The woman shot by a police officer was not killed by mob violence. And neither were those who died due to some health problem. Sure, the deaths would not have happened without the mob violence. But there are plenty of other things without which they would not have happened. We shouldn't go that far with attributions.
 
Trump supporters just saw real-time reporting of their own faction violently breaking into the Capitol building, trashing it, and rampaging. A capital police officer was brutally beaten and later died. A joint session of Congress was physically interrupted in the midst of a traditional, largely symbolic constitutional exercise that has happened every four years since the founding of the country. The mob doing this had just come from a "Stop the Steal" rally in which the President of the United States urged them to march on the capital and disrupt the session.

How do Trump supporters respond? They go to the most obvious thing they can think of--blame it on Democrats, liberals, progressives, BLM protests, and Antifa agitators wearing MAGA hats. That's the ticket!
 
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