Iran chooses to remain an enemy

[Jolly_Penguin]

It would be refreshing if Americans could step back and try to see situations like this a little more objectively. Iran is being pushed by the US to get nuclear weapons... can't you people see that? The more you threaten them the more they need to protect themselves from you. Even if they didn't want nuclear deterrent before, they sure should now. And the hypocrisy of the USA saying that IRAN is meddling in affairs beyond its borders is shocking. USA has no credibility when it comes to such a thing.

I see, so we should let the Saudi's start a war with Iran? You think they'll just sit idly by as Iran gets the nuke? Or perhaps we should just allow that whole region to get flooded with nukes, from Turkey, Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Iran and the Emirates (and Qatar, because, why not?). I feel safer already.

You can't stop it by force.

 

[Ford]

I see, so we should let the Saudi's start a war with Iran?

Do the Saudis need our permission to start a war?

You think they'll just sit idly by as Iran gets the nuke?

Assuming Iran "gets the nuke" (which is by no means a foregone conclusion) the Saudis are not by any measure working on getting "the nuke," and would have to either buy one or start their own program which would take years.

Or perhaps we should just allow that whole region to get flooded with nukes, from Turkey, Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Iran and the Emirates (and Qatar, because, why not?).

Again, this notion that we are tasked with allowing or disallowing events in the Middle East is an odd one. Sure, we try to control things over there - even going as far as toppling regimes we don't like - but at the end of the day the US is not in charge of Turkey, Egypt, Saudi Arabia, etc. You make it sound like we're the Oprah of nuclear weapons..."Iran gets the nuke, Saudi gets the nuke, everyone's getting the nuke!!!"

I feel safer already.

I hate to break it to you, but Iran and Saudi Arabia are not terribly interested in how you feel.

 

[Axulus]

Do the Saudis need our permission to start a war?

You think they'll just sit idly by as Iran gets the nuke?

Assuming Iran "gets the nuke" (which is by no means a foregone conclusion) the Saudis are not by any measure working on getting "the nuke," and would have to either buy one or start their own program which would take years.

Or perhaps we should just allow that whole region to get flooded with nukes, from Turkey, Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Iran and the Emirates (and Qatar, because, why not?).

Again, this notion that we are tasked with allowing or disallowing events in the Middle East is an odd one. Sure, we try to control things over there - even going as far as toppling regimes we don't like - but at the end of the day the US is not in charge of Turkey, Egypt, Saudi Arabia, etc. You make it sound like we're the Oprah of nuclear weapons..."Iran gets the nuke, Saudi gets the nuke, everyone's getting the nuke!!!"

I feel safer already.

I hate to break it to you, but Iran and Saudi Arabia are not terribly interested in how you feel.

So we should just let the region run its course, and if nuclear war breaks out, or if one of these countries collapses and the nukes get into the wrong hands, oh well? We shouldn't do anything to try to stop that scenario from playing out? Let Saudi Arabia, Egypt, and Israel have a showdown with Iran, and whatever happens, happens? Also, we should just end our alliance with these three countries?

Same with Russia, right? We should just let these countries cause instability in their respective regions, because, why not?

 

[Ford]

We shouldn't do anything to try to stop that scenario from playing out?

We are. In your rush to declare war on everyone you seem to have forgotten that all the permanent members of the UN Security Council (plus Germany) are working very hard to get Iran to agree to stop the nuclear weapons program that they don't have.

Yes, the Supreme Leader came out and said some things, but he does that from time to time. Why, he's even issued a fatwa against nuclear weapons, calling them un-Islamic and stating that the regime doesn't want them at all.

 

[SimpleDon]

They are too modest to remind us but many of the neocons like Brooks, just over a decade ago, utilizing their superior ability to evaluate intelligence and their decisive approach to international relations that they are attempting to again use here, saved the country from another disastrous, weak and misleading, negotiated deal by launching a quick, surgical, Shock&Awe™ invasion, at little cost, to be met as liberators, to prevent mushroom clouds over our cities that would have appeared in less than a year otherwise.

Why won't we listen to their sage advice now? As that true American hero, affectionately known as ”Bibi" has been saying for over a decade, "Our intelligence shows us that the Iranians are less than a year away from having an atomic bomb." Who could doubt that?

 

[Axulus]

We shouldn't do anything to try to stop that scenario from playing out?

We are. In your rush to declare war on everyone you seem to have forgotten that all the permanent members of the UN Security Council (plus Germany) are working very hard to get Iran to agree to stop the nuclear weapons program that they don't have.

Yes, the Supreme Leader came out and said some things, but he does that from time to time. Why, he's even issued a fatwa against nuclear weapons, calling them un-Islamic and stating that the regime doesn't want them at all.

I never said declare war on them - not sure where that came from. However, all options should remain on the table after discussions with our allies in the region.

You aren't naive enough to fall for the North Korea style denial tricks, are you?

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Iran could be USA,s best friend in the mid east.They are not Cray Muslims.they want what you and i want.Kids and jobs and a future.

No, because Iran wants to impose their brand of Islam on as much of the world as they can. That inherently puts us in conflict.

 

[Ford]

You aren't naive enough to fall for the North Korea style denial tricks, are you?

You're the one who's freaking out about statements by the Supreme Leader. This is par for the course with Iran, and sometimes these statements which seem so outrageous (accusing us of lying, etc.) are for domestic consumption within the Iranian state. This is politics, pure and simple.

And again, the Iranians don't even have a nuclear weapon or a nuclear weapons program at the moment.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Is this 'debstabalisation' simply resisting US/Saudi attempts to dominate their neighbour? Because invading a country, executing the leader, breaking it up into smaller territories and then pulling out again seem more like destabalisation than anything Iran is doing. Surely not trying to exercise some control over the clusterf*** that is their neighbour would be the height of irresponsibility?

Engineering a coup (Yemen) is destabilization. Subverting a country to the point of being able to start a war (Lebanon) is destabilization.

Backing ethnic cleansing (Iraq) is destabilization.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

It would be refreshing if Americans could step back and try to see situations like this a little more objectively. Iran is being pushed by the US to get nuclear weapons... can't you people see that? The more you threaten them the more they need to protect themselves from you. Even if they didn't want nuclear deterrent before, they sure should now. And the hypocrisy of the USA saying that IRAN is meddling in affairs beyond its borders is shocking. USA has no credibility when it comes to such a thing.

Iran is only being pushed towards nukes by 9-11/Afghanistan. If Iran wasn't supporting terrorists left and right they would have no reason to get the bomb. As it is they are afraid of being held accountable when their terrorists pull off the next 9/11.


And whether we meddle over there says nothing about whether Iran meddles over there.

 

[whichphilosophy]

It would be refreshing if Americans could step back and try to see situations like this a little more objectively. Iran is being pushed by the US to get nuclear weapons... can't you people see that? The more you threaten them the more they need to protect themselves from you. Even if they didn't want nuclear deterrent before, they sure should now. And the hypocrisy of the USA saying that IRAN is meddling in affairs beyond its borders is shocking. USA has no credibility when it comes to such a thing.

Iran is only being pushed towards nukes by 9-11/Afghanistan. If Iran wasn't supporting terrorists left and right they would have no reason to get the bomb. As it is they are afraid of being held accountable when their terrorists pull off the next 9/11.


And whether we meddle over there says nothing about whether Iran meddles over there.

Iran was not responsible for the last 9/11 so why would they want another one. Which terrorists? If Israel pulls out of the last bit of Lebanon and release Lebanese who have been held in jails for years, then it may move towards reducing support for Hezbollah. There again just about nation under occupation would to some degree take up arms.

 

[arkirk]

Loren: Are you blind? The U.S. has invested TRILLIONS OF DOLLARS in meddling in the ME. It has torn up their infrastructure and their society so completely, and you have the gall to point a finger at Iran. I will admit I do not approve of any religiously ruled country. I don't approve of any of them including Iran...but I do not see Iran as acting any more irrationally than U.S. or Israel in the area. U.S. meddling doesn't stop there. Just a couple of weeks ago, I heard a U.S. State Department spokesman say they intended to "steer the Venezuelan government in another direction." If our state department is busy steering other governments by remote control, I would definitely have to say they are meddlesome. The same can be said for Israel's version of the 19th century American Indian Wars.

We need to stop acting so self righteous and do some real peace making...that is done through negotiation. Iran is not a monolith. It has nearly 80 million people and they are of different ethnicities. Our bombs will kill people of all ethnic extractions if we get into a war with that country. The war hawk in congress need to be stopped. If anyone chooses war it will be Israel or the U.S. or Saudi Arabia with its fresh supply of $19 billion worth of U. S. weapons.

 

[Horatio Parker]

I will admit I do not approve of any religiously ruled country. I don't approve of any of them including Iran...but I do not see Iran as acting any more irrationally than U.S. or Israel in the area.

I don't approve of theocracies either. Israel is as big a problem as Iran.

 

[untermensche]

Iran is not as open a society as the US or Israel, especially politically.

This makes dealing with Iran a bit of a guessing game.

Some see Iranians as an alien species that will immediately nuke Israel the second it gets one.

For some reason that is never clear.

Some see Iranians as normal human beings that only want the things everybody wants and have no dreams of attacking anyone.

At least the majority of Iranians. No doubt there are as many war mongers in Iran as exist in Israel and the US.

The future of humanity will depend on the majority winning out over the war mongering minority, everywhere.

 

[Axulus]

I will admit I do not approve of any religiously ruled country. I don't approve of any of them including Iran...but I do not see Iran as acting any more irrationally than U.S. or Israel in the area.

I don't approve of theocracies either. Israel is as big a problem as Iran.

Sorry, but no. Israel is a racist state, not a theocracy. Israel doesn't have an ideological agenda to spread its theology outside its borders and it does not go messing around with the affairs of neighboring countries, trying to get people who follow its religion in power. It is also a liberal democracy. The Palestinian issue is a local conflict. If it were to be resolved peacefully, there wouldn't really be any remaining issues/problems caused by Israel beyond its borders.

 

[Axulus]

Iran is not as open a society as the US or Israel, especially politically.

This makes dealing with Iran a bit of a guessing game.

Some see Iranians as an alien species that will immediately nuke Israel the second it gets one.

For some reason that is never clear.

Some see Iranians as normal human beings that only want the things everybody wants and have no dreams of attacking anyone.

At least the majority of Iranians. No doubt there are as many war mongers in Iran as exist in Israel and the US.

The future of humanity will depend on the majority winning out over the war mongering minority, everywhere.

No one seriously views Iran as a threat to launch nukes. The threat is that it will feel emboldened to be more aggressive and exert its influence on the region, causing everyone else to want to get nukes in response. Nukes will proliferate in the middle east. The area is already quite unstable with widespread sectarian conflict and repressive governments that can topple, making it that much more likely that the nukes will fall into the wrong hands at some point.

 

[Horatio Parker]

I don't approve of theocracies either. Israel is as big a problem as Iran.

Sorry, but no. Israel is a racist state, not a theocracy. Israel doesn't have an ideological agenda to spread its theology outside its borders and it does not go messing around with the affairs of neighboring countries, trying to get people who follow its religion in power. It is also a liberal democracy. The Palestinian issue is a local conflict. If it were to be resolved peacefully, there wouldn't really be any remaining issues/problems caused by Israel beyond its borders.

A theocracy isn't defined by its foreign policy, or how democratic it is.

 

[TV and credit cards]

Iran is not as open a society as the US or Israel, especially politically.

This makes dealing with Iran a bit of a guessing game.

Some see Iranians as an alien species that will immediately nuke Israel the second it gets one.

For some reason that is never clear.

Some see Iranians as normal human beings that only want the things everybody wants and have no dreams of attacking anyone.

At least the majority of Iranians. No doubt there are as many war mongers in Iran as exist in Israel and the US.

The future of humanity will depend on the majority winning out over the war mongering minority, everywhere.

Too often, they're the belligerent assholes in charge. Too often too many of the majority choose the perceived security offered by these belligerent assholes.

 

[Axulus]

Sorry, but no. Israel is a racist state, not a theocracy. Israel doesn't have an ideological agenda to spread its theology outside its borders and it does not go messing around with the affairs of neighboring countries, trying to get people who follow its religion in power. It is also a liberal democracy. The Palestinian issue is a local conflict. If it were to be resolved peacefully, there wouldn't really be any remaining issues/problems caused by Israel beyond its borders.

A theocracy isn't defined by its foreign policy, or how democratic it is.

I was responding more so to the claim that it's as big a problem as Iran.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Iran is only being pushed towards nukes by 9-11/Afghanistan. If Iran wasn't supporting terrorists left and right they would have no reason to get the bomb. As it is they are afraid of being held accountable when their terrorists pull off the next 9/11.


And whether we meddle over there says nothing about whether Iran meddles over there.

Iran was not responsible for the last 9/11 so why would they want another one. Which terrorists? If Israel pulls out of the last bit of Lebanon and release Lebanese who have been held in jails for years, then it may move towards reducing support for Hezbollah. There again just about nation under occupation would to some degree take up arms.

You're sticking your head in the sand here.

9/11 is the sort of thing terrorists have wet dreams about. Iran sponsors terrorists.

As for blaming it all on Israel--Israel has nothing to do with Yemen. Israel had nothing do with Iran's ethnic cleansing in Iraq.

And in Lebanon Hezbollah is at least as much interested in subverting the country as attacking Israel. To a substantial degree they have succeeded in doing so.

Israel is a scapegoat, not the main cause of the problems over there.