Iran chooses to remain an enemy

[Loren Pechtel]

I will admit I do not approve of any religiously ruled country. I don't approve of any of them including Iran...but I do not see Iran as acting any more irrationally than U.S. or Israel in the area.

I don't approve of theocracies either. Israel is as big a problem as Iran.

How many non-Muslims in a leadership position in Iran? Zero.

How many non-Jews in the Knesset? 11%.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

I don't approve of theocracies either. Israel is as big a problem as Iran.

Sorry, but no. Israel is a racist state, not a theocracy. Israel doesn't have an ideological agenda to spread its theology outside its borders and it does not go messing around with the affairs of neighboring countries, trying to get people who follow its religion in power. It is also a liberal democracy. The Palestinian issue is a local conflict. If it were to be resolved peacefully, there wouldn't really be any remaining issues/problems caused by Israel beyond its borders.

Theocracies need not be in the business of exporting their religion so you're not proving your point here.

As for problems Israel causes--it causes problems by it's very existence being a big thorn in the side to Islamists who can't accept they lost land they considered conquered.

 

[Ford]

I don't approve of theocracies either. Israel is as big a problem as Iran.

How many non-Muslims in a leadership position in Iran? Zero.

How many non-Jews in the Knesset? 11%.

How many nuclear weapons in Iran? Zero.

How many nuclear weapons in Israel? Well we don't have an official number because Israel refuses to admit they have them, but rest assured Israel has more warheads than every other Middle Eastern country combined. In fact if Iran managed to pump out a new warhead every year from here on out and Israel simply maintained their arsenal, the "arms race" in the region would not be even until just about the time Captain Kirk is alleged to have taken command of the star ship Enterprise.


Seriously...it would be the 23rd Century before Iran had as many nukes as Israel is estimated to have now.


As far as nuclear proliferation is concerned, Horatio is correct: Israel is a far larger problem than Iran. They actually have nuclear weapons, refuse to admit they have them, and refuse to join the rest of the international community in non-proliferation efforts. Israel is using this threat to back up their continued occupation of land which does not belong to them, annexation of territory outside of their borders, and any future conquests they might decide to undertake.


What territory has Iran taken over lately, again?

 

[Jolly_Penguin]

Iran is only being pushed towards nukes by 9-11/Afghanistan.

Really? Last I checked, your country already went in to topple their government once. Backed their enemy in a war another time. Your country hasn't exactly been friendly towards them, going on constantly about how you want to bomb them.

Does Iran not have the right to defend itself? And why should the nation with the most dangerous arsenal have any moral standing about other people acquiring weapons? Maybe if you scaled back your own nuclear arsenal, maybe then we could take you seriously.

The most potentially dangerous nation is the US, not Iran.

 

[Will Wiley]

Iran could be USA,s best friend in the mid east.They are not Cray Muslims.they want what you and i want.Kids and jobs and a future.

 

[Axulus]

How many non-Muslims in a leadership position in Iran? Zero.

How many non-Jews in the Knesset? 11%.

How many nuclear weapons in Iran? Zero.

How many nuclear weapons in Israel? Well we don't have an official number because Israel refuses to admit they have them, but rest assured Israel has more warheads than every other Middle Eastern country combined. In fact if Iran managed to pump out a new warhead every year from here on out and Israel simply maintained their arsenal, the "arms race" in the region would not be even until just about the time Captain Kirk is alleged to have taken command of the star ship Enterprise.


Seriously...it would be the 23rd Century before Iran had as many nukes as Israel is estimated to have now.


As far as nuclear proliferation is concerned, Horatio is correct: Israel is a far larger problem than Iran. They actually have nuclear weapons, refuse to admit they have them, and refuse to join the rest of the international community in non-proliferation efforts. Israel is using this threat to back up their continued occupation of land which does not belong to them, annexation of territory outside of their borders, and any future conquests they might decide to undertake.


What territory has Iran taken over lately, again?

Except the regional powers in the area are not worried that Israel will try to destabilize them and/or sponsor aggression against them. No so with Iran. Your failure to understand this key distinction really makes your whole perspective on the issue suspect.

 

[Ford]

Except the regional powers in the area are not worried that Israel will try to destabilize them and/or sponsor aggression against them.

You're kidding, right?

You accuse me of being naive and having a suspect perspective and then you claim that nobody in the region is the least bit worried about Israel?

 

[angelo]

This shows the naivity of the Obama regime. Trying to make a pariah state into some form of civility is mission impossible!!

 

[whichphilosophy]

I don't approve of theocracies either. Israel is as big a problem as Iran.

How many non-Muslims in a leadership position in Iran? Zero.

How many non-Jews in the Knesset? 11%.

Iran has a very small Jewish community. One Jewish representative sits in the Iranian parliament. There are no Iranian Jews in a leadership position, nor are there any Arab members in a leadership position in Israel.

However some years ago, some Arab parties did join in earlier coalition government.

If the Middle East and Israel ceased war and Israel ceased its illegal occupations, then the Jewish people (not jewish and non-Zionists) have a lot to offer the Middle East in terms of education science, technology, art, human rights and just about everything else.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

How many non-Muslims in a leadership position in Iran? Zero.

How many non-Jews in the Knesset? 11%.

How many nuclear weapons in Iran? Zero.

How many nuclear weapons in Israel? Well we don't have an official number because Israel refuses to admit they have them, but rest assured Israel has more warheads than every other Middle Eastern country combined. In fact if Iran managed to pump out a new warhead every year from here on out and Israel simply maintained their arsenal, the "arms race" in the region would not be even until just about the time Captain Kirk is alleged to have taken command of the star ship Enterprise.

Nukes have nothing to do with theocracies.

As far as nuclear proliferation is concerned, Horatio is correct: Israel is a far larger problem than Iran. They actually have nuclear weapons, refuse to admit they have them, and refuse to join the rest of the international community in non-proliferation efforts. Israel is using this threat to back up their continued occupation of land which does not belong to them, annexation of territory outside of their borders, and any future conquests they might decide to undertake.

Israel never signed the NPT, they aren't bound by it. And Israel is using its nukes to avoid being annihilated like it's neighbors have tried to do multiple times. They've faced 3 wars bent on destroying them as a nation--and now that they have the bomb there have been no major wars. They aren't using them as protection from retaliation because nobody is even trying to retaliate against them.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Iran is only being pushed towards nukes by 9-11/Afghanistan.

Really? Last I checked, your country already went in to topple their government once. Backed their enemy in a war another time. Your country hasn't exactly been friendly towards them, going on constantly about how you want to bomb them.

We toppled a Soviet-backed government. Both sides did such things in the cold war.

Does Iran not have the right to defend itself? And why should the nation with the most dangerous arsenal have any moral standing about other people acquiring weapons? Maybe if you scaled back your own nuclear arsenal, maybe then we could take you seriously.

The most potentially dangerous nation is the US, not Iran.

We have more total power, we aren't going around sponsoring armed movements that are turning countries into puppets, though.

Be peaceful, both inside (no genocides, don't go attacking Americans in your country) and out (wars or proxy wars) and you don't have anything to fear from the US.

- - - Updated - - -

Except the regional powers in the area are not worried that Israel will try to destabilize them and/or sponsor aggression against them.

You're kidding, right?

You accuse me of being naive and having a suspect perspective and then you claim that nobody in the region is the least bit worried about Israel?

Can you name one nation that Israel has tried to undermine?

 

[Loren Pechtel]

How many non-Muslims in a leadership position in Iran? Zero.

How many non-Jews in the Knesset? 11%.

Iran has a very small Jewish community. One Jewish representative sits in the Iranian parliament. There are no Iranian Jews in a leadership position, nor are there any Arab members in a leadership position in Israel.

However some years ago, some Arab parties did join in earlier coalition government.

If the Middle East and Israel ceased war and Israel ceased its illegal occupations, then the Jewish people (not jewish and non-Zionists) have a lot to offer the Middle East in terms of education science, technology, art, human rights and just about everything else.

The wars existed before 1967. There's no reason to think that returning to the 67 borders would bring peace. That's just a deception for western ears--they regard all of Israel as "occupied territory"--the end of the occupation is the destruction of Israel. That's what they say will bring peace.

 

[Ford]

Israel never signed the NPT, they aren't bound by it. And Israel is using its nukes to avoid being annihilated like it's neighbors have tried to do multiple times. They've faced 3 wars bent on destroying them as a nation--and now that they have the bomb there have been no major wars. They aren't using them as protection from retaliation because nobody is even trying to retaliate against them.

Thanks for reminding me once again that your position is "If Israel Does It, I Support It."

You're actually arguing that Israel is right to threaten her neighbors with nuclear annihilation (though I bet if pressed you'd never admit they actually have nuclear weapons) because they feel threatened, but that Iran has no right whatsoever to similarly arm themselves. Might makes right in your world, and so long as Israel has (allegedly) nuclear weapons, no other nation in the region can.

Yet while taking the "Israel is just a terrified victim (with nuclear weapons)" position, you went off book. Nobody is trying to retaliate against Israel? Your entire argument is premised on the notion that Israel is inches away from total destruction by hostile neighbors, but now you're claiming nobody is even trying to attack them?

You're gonna half to go back to the Bibi Netanyahu School of Likud Talking Points and get a refresher course!

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Israel never signed the NPT, they aren't bound by it. And Israel is using its nukes to avoid being annihilated like it's neighbors have tried to do multiple times. They've faced 3 wars bent on destroying them as a nation--and now that they have the bomb there have been no major wars. They aren't using them as protection from retaliation because nobody is even trying to retaliate against them.

Thanks for reminding me once again that your position is "If Israel Does It, I Support It."

You're actually arguing that Israel is right to threaten her neighbors with nuclear annihilation (though I bet if pressed you'd never admit they actually have nuclear weapons) because they feel threatened, but that Iran has no right whatsoever to similarly arm themselves. Might makes right in your world, and so long as Israel has (allegedly) nuclear weapons, no other nation in the region can.

Yet while taking the "Israel is just a terrified victim (with nuclear weapons)" position, you went off book. Nobody is trying to retaliate against Israel? Your entire argument is premised on the notion that Israel is inches away from total destruction by hostile neighbors, but now you're claiming nobody is even trying to attack them?

You're gonna half to go back to the Bibi Netanyahu School of Likud Talking Points and get a refresher course!

You're getting offense and defense mixed up.

Israel's neighbors want to destroy Israel simply because it exists.

Iran is facing a threat of retaliation for it's offensive actions.

 

[Ford]

You're getting offense and defense mixed up.

That's right, I forget...when Israel takes land that doesn't belong to it, they're being "defensive."

 

[bleubird]

We have more total power, we aren't going around sponsoring armed movements that are turning countries into puppets, though.

Really!Central America.Shah of Iran.Argentina.
Where did you get your history?

 

[Loren Pechtel]

You're getting offense and defense mixed up.

That's right, I forget...when Israel takes land that doesn't belong to it, they're being "defensive."

You still don't get it about time--you're blaming everything on a situation which predates the supposed cause.

 

[whichphilosophy]

Iran has a very small Jewish community. One Jewish representative sits in the Iranian parliament. There are no Iranian Jews in a leadership position, nor are there any Arab members in a leadership position in Israel.

However some years ago, some Arab parties did join in earlier coalition government.

If the Middle East and Israel ceased war and Israel ceased its illegal occupations, then the Jewish people (not jewish and non-Zionists) have a lot to offer the Middle East in terms of education science, technology, art, human rights and just about everything else.

The wars existed before 1967. There's no reason to think that returning to the 67 borders would bring peace. That's just a deception for western ears--they regard all of Israel as "occupied territory"--the end of the occupation is the destruction of Israel. That's what they say will bring peace.

Israel should also leave the Palestinian farms and homes it has occupied. Returning to the 67 borders would be one step forward but not the solution. A Joint State or a federation of the two states of Israel and Palestine, would benefit not just the two communities but the whole of the Middle East. Getting there would take a series of steps.

The Jews and Palestinians are part of the same group of people; they are cousins. Not all Jews are Zionists and not all Palestinians are radicals.

 

[arkirk]

That's right, I forget...when Israel takes land that doesn't belong to it, they're being "defensive."

You still don't get it about time--you're blaming everything on a situation which predates the supposed cause.

What are you talking about? They have an armed to the teeth Saudi Arabia and a nuclear armed Israel for neighbors. They have no "choice" at all. Stop trying to bullshit us without telling us what the hell you are talking about! Which situation are you talking about? C'mon! Be Clear.

 

[arkirk]

The wars existed before 1967. There's no reason to think that returning to the 67 borders would bring peace. That's just a deception for western ears--they regard all of Israel as "occupied territory"--the end of the occupation is the destruction of Israel. That's what they say will bring peace.

Israel should also leave the Palestinian farms and homes it has occupied. Returning to the 67 borders would be one step forward but not the solution. A Joint State or a federation of the two states of Israel and Palestine, would benefit not just the two communities but the whole of the Middle East. Getting there would take a series of steps.

The Jews and Palestinians are part of the same group of people; they are cousins. Not all Jews are Zionists and not all Palestinians are radicals.

Was that war or was it ethnic cleansing? Is THAT the "situation you are talking about?" 1948? Whatever the outcome of this conflict is, it should end up with a nuclearly disarmed Israel or Palestine or whatever you want to call the area..... You are right about these people being essentially cousins. It never ceases to amaze me why Loren wants one cousin to keep warring with the other...claiming that peace is not possible.