Is Alberta an example of Democracy working?

[Blahface]

So Cenk Uygur is pretty happy about the New Democratic Party winning in a landslide in Alberta, Canada. He cites this is an example of democracy working. Apparently his view of “democracy working,” just means that his side won because the conservative parties got 52% of the vote and still got devastated. The only reason the NDP won was because of vote splitting. What is funny is that in 2011, when the conservatives won by the left splitting the vote, he cited that as an example of why we shouldn't have multiple parties. He also cried foul when the Republicans got less votes than the Democrats in 2012, but still kept the House.

First-past-the-post is a seriously fucked up voting system. The Conservative victory in 2011 was a travesty and the NDP winning in Albert is a travesty. Nobody who has a voice wants to have a conversation about this.

 

[Axulus]

Something does seem seriously screwed up when the party that receives 41% of the popular vote controls 61% of the legislature, and thus has a strong majority to get whatever it wants enacted. Doesn't really sound like democracy functioning as intended to me.

 

[dismal]

If you define "Democracy" as "people get to vote for their leaders and the people with the most votes win" I suppose this was Democracy.

This particular voting system seems to have produced a result where people with minority views got control. Other systems would probably not have produced this result. If this sort of result is intolerable they could change the system.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Holy fuck! The NDP won in Alberta?! Vote splitting aside, that is pretty historic. Conservatives have held a head lock in that province for almost half a century!

Looking at the results, the OP is misleading things. The two conservative party's split the vote. Wildrose won 24%, the PC won 28%, the NDP won 41%. So the NDP won seats outrightly and took more ridings (what the northerners call seats). So much for voting third party eh?

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Reading a bit more. This isn't quite as big a steal by the NDP as alleged. Look at the numbers and you'll see a notable shift.

The NDP percentage went from about 10% last election to 41%.
Wildrose dropped 10% from 34% to 24%.
PC went from 44% to 28%.

So the two conservative parties went from 79% of the vote to 53% of the vote. If anything Wildrose stole seats. They went from 5 (with 35% of the vote) to 21 (with 25% of the vote). Because both conservative parties lost significant numbers of votes and those votes clearly went in NDP's direction, the results of the election aren't entirely unfair. The conservatives were fired.

Here is a good riding to riding link. Looks like Edmonton was a sweep for the NDP, but a lot of the ridings in Calgary and in the rural areas were split conservative votes.

 

[dismal]

Vote splitting aside, that is pretty historic.

Right up there with Jesse Ventura winning Minnesota. The legacy he created there lives on like a sandcastle on the beach after the tide comes in.

Winning an election presents an interesting challenge for a party who knows their views do not represent the majority of the electorate.

 

[Jolly_Penguin]

So Cenk Uygur is pretty happy about the New Democratic Party winning in a landslide in Alberta, Canada. He cites this is an example of democracy working. Apparently his view of “democracy working,” just means that his side won because the conservative parties got 52% of the vote and still got devastated. The only reason the NDP won was because of vote splitting. What is funny is that in 2011, when the conservatives won by the left splitting the vote, he cited that as an example of why we shouldn't have multiple parties. He also cried foul when the Republicans got less votes than the Democrats in 2012, but still kept the House.

First-past-the-post is a seriously fucked up voting system. The Conservative victory in 2011 was a travesty and the NDP winning in Albert is a travesty. Nobody who has a voice wants to have a conversation about this.

I have not been following politics out west, but the NDP won Alberta??? Yes... that seems very off. Alberta is Canada's version of the bible belt. An NDP win there makes about as much sense as a Conservative win of Canada as at the Federal level. Both have happened because of vote splitting. I think we need something better than a first past the post system and voting districts so that so many people's votes are meaningless.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Vote splitting aside, that is pretty historic.

Right up there with Jesse Ventura winning Minnesota. The legacy he created there lives on like a sandcastle on the beach after the tide comes in.

Well, that was an independent third party victory. Alberta consists of the NDP sweeping Edmonton and then winning ridings where the conservatives were beating each other up.

Winning an election presents an interesting challenge for a party who knows their views do not represent the majority of the electorate.

Well, when the NDP bans tar sand exploration, you won't have long to wait for them to get booted from office.

 

[krypton iodine sulfur]

He cites this is an example of democracy working. Apparently his view of “democracy working,” just means that his side won because the conservative parties got 52% of the vote and still got devastated.

I disagree that it works and have always disagreed, especially at the federal level. Given relations between BC and Alberta, NDP is a preferable outcome from my perspective (out of the options available). But getting my way and saying the system works well (or is even adequate) are two different things.

There is no way for the system to be perfect, but the current scheme doesn't represent how Canadians actually vote, both in distribution of seats in relation to popular vote, and in this redundant regionalization of representatives which exists at the municipal level, the provincial level, the federal level in the lower house and, to some extent, in the upper house (though we don't vote for senators).

 

[dismal]

Right up there with Jesse Ventura winning Minnesota. The legacy he created there lives on like a sandcastle on the beach after the tide comes in.

Well, that was an independent third party victory. Alberta consists of the NDP sweeping Edmonton and then winning ridings where the conservatives were beating each other up.

My point there was winning an election is sometimes just a curious footnote. Depends somewhat on what happens after.

 

[bilby]

Why are the districts called 'ridings'? Are they the result of division of a larger area into thirds?

 

[krypton iodine sulfur]

Why are the districts called 'ridings'? Are they the result of division of a larger area into thirds?

I don't think it has anything to do with county subdivisions here; it's just a slightly warped holdover from British influence. More properly, they are 'electoral districts', but given Canadian apathy toward politics, where would we find the energy to speak four* extra syllables every time we talk about voting regions?

*edited because apparently I am too apathetic to even count properly.

 

[bilby]

Why are the districts called 'ridings'? Are they the result of division of a larger area into thirds?

I don't think it has anything to do with county subdivisions here; it's just a slightly warped holdover from British influence. More properly, they are 'electoral districts', but given Canadian apathy toward politics, where would we find the energy to speak four* extra syllables every time we talk about voting regions?

*edited because apparently I am too apathetic to even count properly.

But the word 'riding' means 'one third part'; in exactly the same way that 'farthing' means 'one fourth part' and 'tithing' means 'one tenth part'. So if they are not thirds of something, calling them 'ridings' is very odd.

 

[krypton iodine sulfur]

I'm aware, and once upon a time it likely did represent exactly that sort of division in England, but when the Canadian system inherited the term, it became a generic term for an electoral district. There is nothing odd about that sort of mutation of a term, even if it doesn't make sense by a very literal etymological perspective.

 

[jonatha]

But the word 'riding' means 'one third part'; in exactly the same way that 'farthing' means 'one fourth part' and 'tithing' means 'one tenth part'. So if they are not thirds of something, calling them 'ridings' is very odd.

I wonder if it also means "the area one can cover on a horse in a reasonable amount of time in order to interact with one's constituents"....

ETA - WIktionary says it was historically one of three administrative areas of Yorkshire and some other northern counties of England. So the something you are seeking is apparently Yorkshire....

 

[bilby]

But the word 'riding' means 'one third part'; in exactly the same way that 'farthing' means 'one fourth part' and 'tithing' means 'one tenth part'. So if they are not thirds of something, calling them 'ridings' is very odd.

I wonder if it also means "the area one can cover on a horse in a reasonable amount of time in order to interact with one's constituents"....

ETA - WIktionary says it was historically one of three administrative areas of Yorkshire and some other northern counties of England. So the something you are seeking is apparently Yorkshire....

The 'area accessible on horseback' idea is a back-formation, and as such is even more wrong than a riding that is a subdivision from an area divided into more than three parts.

Yorkshire is divided into three Ridings - North, East and West. The county town is the City of York, and stands at the point where the three ridings meet.

Legally speaking, this is no longer the case; but we Yorkshiremen don't take too much notice of the stupid border changes made by a bunch of shandy-drinking southerners.

 

[arkirk]

Something does seem seriously screwed up when the party that receives 41% of the popular vote controls 61% of the legislature, and thus has a strong majority to get whatever it wants enacted. Doesn't really sound like democracy functioning as intended to me.

Yeah! Sounds like the Republican Party in America. It is possible that Canada has a developing political class that has enough money to buy elections just like our country. That wouldn't be surprising.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Something does seem seriously screwed up when the party that receives 41% of the popular vote controls 61% of the legislature, and thus has a strong majority to get whatever it wants enacted. Doesn't really sound like democracy functioning as intended to me.

Yeah! Sounds like the Republican Party in America. It is possible that Canada has a developing political class that has enough money to buy elections just like our country. That wouldn't be surprising.

FYI, the NDP is the further left of Canada's main parties. In fact, it is now the main voice of the Left. Oh my, how the Liberals have fallen.

 

[jonatha]

"Riding" seems to have begun life with a "th" (thorn) at the beginning, which if it had been retained would have made things a bit more clear, I think.

I also think it is unusual to drop such an initial consonant entirely. I wonder how many other examples there are....

 

[bilby]

"Riding" seems to have begun life with a "th" (thorn) at the beginning, which if it had been retained would have made things a bit more clear, I think.

I also think it is unusual to drop such an initial consonant entirely. I wonder how many other examples there are....

It's not common, but it happens when a word is frequently used in conjunction with a precursor that ends with the sound the word starts with - North thirding and south thirding, for example; or where the break between words can move but retain a syntax that sounds right - A norange can become an orange without sounding odd.