You need me to explain to you why broad-brush discrimination against entire groups of people based on ignorance and prejudice is something rational people should not support?
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Is Europe in danger of a new rise in facism?
- Thread starter Axulus
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You need me to explain to you why broad-brush discrimination against entire groups of people based on ignorance and prejudice is something rational people should not support?
Bomb#20
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It would be pretty simple to cut down on the massive influx without discriminating. Just stop the current practice of discriminating against would-be immigrants for not having arranged marriages to citizens. If an Algerian who's getting his cousin in France to make his daughter marry him so he can immigrate didn't automatically get bumped up ahead of a Zambian who'd equally jump at the chance of becoming French but hasn't got a relative already there with a daughter to pimp out, then the Muslim immigration rate would drop back to normal.
On the other hand, it seems pretty rational to discriminate against the entire group of ignorant and prejudiced people. So you could always hold competitive exams to decide who gets to immigrate. It works for universities.
arkirk
Veteran Member
The OP has some truth to it. In reality what we are seeing unfurl in Europe is rightly the harvest of empire. The greater the empires these countries had attained and the longer they held them, the greater the effect is of losing them...so we see England and France receiving huge flows of refuges from their former colonies and actually being unable to sustain them. The host government and the immigrants then resort to all sorts of fanatical terrorism. They too are behind the curve in modernization of anything but the bookeeping of a landlord state with its lands stripped away. They do everything they can to add inertia to their backward slide, and it appears to be inexorable.
Meanwhile back in the States, we too have our own harvest of empire that largely is facing the consequences of the Monroe Doctrine with Reagan's corrupt interpretation of it. People without a clue of the responsibility of their own political leadership often militate agains immigrants. It is stupid and also very Nazi-like.
Meanwhile back in the States, we too have our own harvest of empire that largely is facing the consequences of the Monroe Doctrine with Reagan's corrupt interpretation of it. People without a clue of the responsibility of their own political leadership often militate agains immigrants. It is stupid and also very Nazi-like.
lpetrich
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Titled OP link: European Elections: 9 Scariest Far-Right Parties Now In The European Parliament
ian bremmer on Twitter: "A handy chart to distinguish all those Euroskeptic parties, from my friends at @_Counterpoint_. http://t.co/u1V5KBRE0p": 17 parties and 11 criteria. There are right-wingers and there are right-wingers -- they are far from alike. They range from the Progress Party of Norway, which is mildly xenophobic and Islamophobic to Golden Dawn of Greece, which is strong in all but one of the criteria.
ian bremmer on Twitter: "A handy chart to distinguish all those Euroskeptic parties, from my friends at @_Counterpoint_. http://t.co/u1V5KBRE0p": 17 parties and 11 criteria. There are right-wingers and there are right-wingers -- they are far from alike. They range from the Progress Party of Norway, which is mildly xenophobic and Islamophobic to Golden Dawn of Greece, which is strong in all but one of the criteria.
repoman
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arkirk
Veteran Member
So what is this Hitchens' suggestion to remedy his supposed Marxist thinking...turning into perhaps a right wing bigot? That person he calls innocent has already been the recipient of the largess of the empire in a hundred different ways. It is not true that he did nothing to bring on the onslaught of immigrants. His participation in the economy of empire central (his home country) and simultaneous disinterest in what his country was doing abroad to support his consumption means to me that he is not innocent. He needs to educate himself on what his country has meant to other parts of the world. That education will help him understand why there are so many Muslims in his country. If he doesn't learn about or care about his nation's place in world events, then he will just be left with a kind of xenophobic sense of unrest and unjustified bother caused by these "foreigners." In short...cultural narcissism.
repoman
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Did the former empire and remaining economic ties dictate the need for mass immigration? If you have been an asshole to your former colonies - which is 100% true - why bring the people with a grudge in? It makes no sense. Keep on being an asshole, especially to Muslims who have a very strong backbone of religion-political system. Being nice after being a dick is suicidal.
America is lucky that we have as an example Filipinos and Vietnamese non-muslims as former countries we had some level of control over. They are darn good immigrants to have.
America is lucky that we have as an example Filipinos and Vietnamese non-muslims as former countries we had some level of control over. They are darn good immigrants to have.
You'd fit right in in a lot of the authoritarian shithole countries you're harping on about.
Jimmy Higgins
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We've been fighting them directly for about 13 years now, so roughly, what, $3 trillion going to fight them?
And let us not forget the white Catholic money in Boston and NYC funding an organization that killed hundreds? 9/11 aside, the death toll of westerners in Western Nations is just starting to approach that level.
And lets forget about the absurd Islam v Christianity death toll in Africa.
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Blood diamonds anyone? Only in this case, everyone is buying!
I do ponder how much of this oil price deflation is due to two things:
1) Russia downing the airliner
2) Kill off ISIS the best way possible, make their stolen oil worth less.
dystopian
Veteran Member
Sorry, but no. Most of the problems in the EU do not concern immigrants coming from former colonies; with the possible exception of France, immigrants from former colonies are generally considered to be well integrated regardless of whether or not they're from Muslim-majority countries. Here in the Netherlands, hardly anyone thinks ill of Indonesians, for example. And while the racists might not think highly of black people from our former plantation colonies, they appear resigned to their existence and 'hey at least we share a common language and history'. No, least here as well as in Belgium and Germany, the "problem" is believed to be immigrants from Arabic countries, which (again, France being the exception), aren't former colonies and the immigration from which is a more recent phenomenon.
Repoman said:
I can't speak to other countries; but here the mass immigration happened after independence of our colonies. Not everyone fancied life under the new government. In the case of Indonesia, there were a lot of people of mixed heritage who weren't accepted in the new Indonesia, and despite having never been to Europe went and migrated. They're now fully integrated. In the case of Surinam; about a third of the population migrated here in the days leading up to independence because they were convinced that the country would fall to corruption and conditions would worsen for them. They turned out to be right (it's currently being run by a wanted drug dealer/dictator) and more people came here. These people are also pretty much fully integrated, though perhaps not as well as those of Indonesian heritage, and generally do pretty well. We still have territory in the Carribean (though these aren't colonies anymore), and many of its people migrate here for employment; they're probably a little less integrated than those from Surinam. Immigrants from Turkey and Morocco are considered to be the "problem" by the right. Neither of these countries are former colonies. There's also a large Polish group now, who the right also strongly dislike.
There's quite a few Vietnamese people here as well. Like the Chinese, they're well regarded. Ironically, many of them are far less integrated than those of Arab descent; often not even speaking the language. I guess even racists are willing to overlook that so long as the immigrant population in question adds good food to the national palate.
