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Is it now forbidden to be wrong?

DrZoidberg

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Angry Floof

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Articles like this worry me:


In a free society people have to be allowed to disagree and have arguments about stuff. Like we do on this forum. It's got to be allowed to be a climate change denier. I'm not. But I don't want my mere layman's opinion to be etched into stone (ie made law). That would be a terrible development IMHO.

Facebook has no responsibility for anything. They're under no obligation to protect us from ourselves. In fact, if we forbid dumb people from speaking, we all become dumber. The brain is like any muscle. It needs exercising. If we ban bullshit, we will lower resilience to the inevitable bullshit that does manage to slip through the cracks.

I don't like the way the article is formulated. I fear we're sliding into a world of well-meaning totalitarian censorship. A world without lies is soma in Brave New World.
Spreading misinformation has consequences. Pretending it is a matter of "not allowed to be wrong" is an example of misinformation. When Qanon thinking like this spreads, real people's lives are affected.

This is the social media age. If you can't recognize how that changes the world and adapt accordingly, then maybe you should do the right thing and shut up.
 

ZiprHead

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I question the accuracy of the news piece. Daily Beast is like the Daily Mail of the left. Both are garbage

 

Jimmy Higgins

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article said:
Insider reports that New Hampshire’s Moms for Liberty chapter is offering $500 to the first person who finds evidence that a teacher has broken a controversial new law that prohibits teachers from telling kids that any group is inherently racist, sexist, or oppressive, even if unconsciously.
The best part is the "even if unconsciously". That means, 'whatever I say you are saying means that you are teaching racist ideology against white people'.
 

Jimmy Higgins

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I question the accuracy of the news piece. Daily Beast is like the Daily Mail of the left. Both are garbage

I question your ability to understand sociological mindsets in the US... and use of Google.
 

Gun Nut

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TomC

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Dr. Z, What do you think about these wokesters?

I cannot speak for @DrZoidberg.

But what it looks like to me is that the term "wokester" has been expanded to include everyone who is "aware of and concerned about social issues".

Funny how language works.

I think that the people in your examples qualify. You described them as wokesters. It's like we share one brain!
Tom
 

blastula

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Why are you guys posting secondary sources about a tweet, when you can just post the original tweet.

 

Patooka

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Now you are pretending like I said that woke is the ONLY reason for Trump and Brexit. I did not. Try again.
It's not any fucking reason. Woke did not cause Trump or Johnson to magically exist. They certainly didn't have a hand in putting such cunts into power because both of those fuckheads campaigned on bigoted shit that has existed for fucking decades. Woke had jack fuck all to do with it and people like yourself seem to readily equate any for of criticism with "wokeness".

You really do live in a bubble, don't you?.
 

Loren Pechtel

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Getting back to the question in the thread title: The problem isn't with being wrong anyway. The problem is with people who go into denial mode when shown they are wrong. One needs to be open to learning new things.
 

Bomb#20

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article said:
Insider reports that New Hampshire’s Moms for Liberty chapter is offering $500 to the first person who finds evidence that a teacher has broken a controversial new law that prohibits teachers from telling kids that any group is inherently racist, sexist, or oppressive, even if unconsciously.
The best part is the "even if unconsciously". That means, 'whatever I say you are saying means that you are teaching racist ideology against white people'.
That meant:

"evidence that a teacher has broken a controversial new law that prohibits teachers from telling kids that (any group is inherently racist, sexist, or oppressive, even if unconsciously).",
You appear to have misparsed it as:

"evidence that a teacher has broken a controversial new law (that prohibits teachers from telling kids that any group is inherently racist, sexist, or oppressive), even if unconsciously.
 

bigfield

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Well... not actual fascism. But more fascistic. Stuff like Trump and Boris Johnsson. I think those movements are partly a reaction against woke.

If you become more intolerant your ideological opponent will necessarily have to become more intolerant to survive. If you want your ideological opponent to listen to you and change, you have to be open to listening to them and have a mindset where you to can be changed.
This idea, that left wing intolerance breeds right wing intolerance, is just a baseless theory that doesn't actually explain a single right wing political success.

The intolerant, hateful assholes that voted for Trump are a demographic that has always existed, but Trump was far more brazen in courting their vote than his Republican rivals in the primaries. He also tapped into a more general anger towards the American political establishment. And he was helped immensely by mass media and social media that immersed people in lies.

The right wing is perfectly capable of inventing a narrative about "political correctness gone mad," "why can't we have a White History month," or more recently, "critical race theory in our schools." Conservatives will paint themselves as victims of "Cultural Marxism" whether it exists or not. In fact, that's exactly what you're doing right now: making up a Woke bogeyman to stoke outrage among conservativeslibertarians"rational centrists".
 

Patooka

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In fact, that's exactly what you're doing right now: making up a Woke bogeyman to stoke outrage among conservativeslibertarians"rational centrists".
I think they are called "classical liberal" nowadays. I could be behind the times, though.
 

TomC

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Hell, TomC thinks I'm the actual devil.
No, I don't.
And I've said so before. I liked you a lot more, on other forums, before I got to know you on TFT. I think it's because the culture here on TFT/IIDB is different from the other places. Probably we've both changed as well, it's been many years.

But I don't think you're the devil, by any stretch.
Tom
 
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