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Is the U.S. Too Diverse To Survive?

 
 
 
There are many problems for stability; diversity in national or racial origin is not a problem on its own, but it can exacerbate others (e.g., when there are many racists, or nationalists, or people who accuse others of being one of those without good reasons).

A problem is epistemic irrationality (which includes of course ideologies, of which religions are a subclass), but diversity in irrationality makes things worse, all other things equal. For example, if nearly all irrationally believe the same things, that usually doesn't lead to social conflict; when there are different tribes subscribing to different and transparently mutually inconsistent irrational dogmas (even if they do not realize that they subscribe to dogmas), that usually is a problem, and how big a problem depends on the content of the dogmas and how committed those people are.

But the US will not cease to exist due to that kind of conflict. I think either the Woke will just win the culture war, or else it will just keep going, without becoming too big a problem for social stability (i.e., no actual civil war).
 
Diversity isn’t our problem. Polarization is a major problem... and he was a major reason for it.

He was the uncle who came to your house, took craps on the living room floor. By the time he left he noted the house was just too foul to live in.

The other issue is that the US off shored a lot of jobs and tens of millions of Americans were not considered in the process and millions of them are in denial about the reality of the off-shored jobs... ie electing Trump to bring them back (never was going to happen). The GOP has done a good job at both not dealing the lost jobs and trying to pin it on the Democrats.
 
seconded Stupidity..

When Hillary was hounded for using the word "deplorable", she should have doubled down. Backpedaling and downplaying gave them room to get away with "Don't call me stupid". She should have been 100% in on "yes. It is STUPID to think people are eating babies. If you really believe these stories and make life decisions based on them, then there is no better way to describe you as just plain stupid. My advice is to seek help with your stupidity, or just sit down, shut up, and let smart, thoughtful people make the important decisions without you drooling all over the table." Or something like that.
 
Gun Nut said:
seconded Stupidity..

When Hillary was hounded for using the word "deplorable", she should have doubled down. Backpedaling and downplaying gave them room to get away with "Don't call me stupid". She should have been 100% in on "yes. It is STUPID to think people are eating babies. If you really believe these stories and make life decisions based on them, then there is no better way to describe you as just plain stupid. My advice is to seek help with your stupidity, or just sit down, shut up, and let smart, thoughtful people make the important decisions without you drooling all over the table." Or something like that.
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Gospel said:
Gun Nut said:
seconded Stupidity..

When Hillary was hounded for using the word "deplorable", she should have doubled down. Backpedaling and downplaying gave them room to get away with "Don't call me stupid". She should have been 100% in on "yes. It is STUPID to think people are eating babies. If you really believe these stories and make life decisions based on them, then there is no better way to describe you as just plain stupid. My advice is to seek help with your stupidity, or just sit down, shut up, and let smart, thoughtful people make the important decisions without you drooling all over the table." Or something like that.
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Yup. That there's the leader of "don't call us Stupid". To which a loud response should have been given.. "Then stop BEING stupid, you fucking morons". When room was given to protect stupid actions with "be nice" it made the offenders the apparent victims.
 
I grew up with the tern melting pot.

Cultures come in and we mix absorbing things peole like.

Tacos, burritos, pizza, Chow Mein are now standard American fare.

I grew up with Jewish-Yiddish slang. Putz, bupkis, schmuck, schlep.

Diversity is something else. It is the idea that there are subcultures apart from everyone else that do not assimilate as did past immigrants. English is not a first language. People see themselves first as the subculture not as Americans. Even as citizens they see themselves as from somewhere else even after a number of generations.

I watched one of genetic testing commercials. A Black woman born and raised here traces back to Nigeria. She starts wearing a Nigerian hat as she says from 'her culture'. A white guy traces back to Scotland and starts wearing kilts.

If you are born and raised here you are American.


I enjoy walking around Chinatown getting something to eat and shopping, but it is a separate reality. Chinese is heard on the streets not English.

When I was in a nursing home and assisted living facility where aides and people responsible for administering drugs coud not read English well enough to read drug instructions. They had to get someone to translate. If you think that would be wite racist you would be wrong. American born blacks have the same complaint on immigrants.

There is no longer any social pressure to assimilate and learn English. Today that would be racist and politically correct.

How many languages does NYC publish documents in?

Here in Seattke one of the reasons cited for Latinos being hit harder by COVID is that they do not have enough English in the home to understand TV and radio discussion on the virus. Multiple generations in a home not speaking English. I remember Obama saying the USA should be like the rest of the world. To make that happen we had a diversity immigration lottery for people from countries under represented here. Now we are staring to look like the rest of the world. ethic, religious, and racial divides.

Where in the world does diversity work? Kurds vs Turks, Basques in Spain, Arabs vs Persians, Israel vs Palestine, Kosovo War, Rwanda, Northern Ireland Catholics vs Protestants. People want a unique identity and will not easily give it up.

It is PC to tar and feather white nationalists, but the problem is everywhere in varying degrees.
 
steve_bank said:
Where in the world does diversity work? Kurds vs Turks, Basques in Spain, Arabs vs Persians, Israel vs Palestine, Kosovo War, Rwanda, Northern Ireland Catholics vs Protestants. People want a unique identity and will not easily give it up.

It is PC to tar and feather white nationalists, but the problem is everywhere in varying degrees.
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The problem in those cases isn't that people are embracing diversity too much. It's that they aren't embracing diversity. Are saying that if they just tried a little bit harder to force young Kurdish children to speak Arabic, there wouldn't be a Kurdish rebellion today? Because they tried pretty fucking hard to do exactly that. It didn't work.
 
Along with diversity the PC is becoming the state is supposed to actively support ethnic diversity. With melting pot went along the idea was the newcomer was supposed to work his or way into assimilation.

Justice is now defined as a statistical balance everywhere across all demographics. Ca now nabdates diversity at the top in public companies.

Pense made a statement that we were stronger with a white majority. I don't know how much that comes from racism, but he has a point.

Can a system on the scale of the US function without a strong majority culture? I am thinking no. Consensus was tough enough within the past white majority.

Now the right has been torn apart by Trump, and on the left it is moderates vs progressives. We are loosing any hope of any political consensus.

I had a discussion with someone who does business in China and who knew several officials. As he put it the leadership is scared of a repeat of the chaos pf the Cultural Revolution. That is why in part they maintain rigid control of politics and media.

China would not be governable by a western style system.

The experiment started by the founders and COTUS was about a white make white majority state. Add to that Christian dominance. They could not possibly have foreseen where we are today.

Progressives chant diversity as a mantra thinking a moral high ground, yet no one asks what is possible and what are the limits of the concept.

Look at Native Americans. Some want to live a tribal life on reservations. By treaty they have an autonomy close to a sovereign nation. They have long standing issues with poverty and do not want to assimilate. Self imposed Catch 22.

In the extreme we are heading foris a deconstruction 'white' America rebuilt in the image of non whites. The term whiteness was coined as a pejorative. I don't want to see 'white culture' meaning western civilization rooted in Europe, I want to see 'my culture'.

It is all about identity. If the idea in the 60s was not being judged by skin color, diversity is headed in the opposite direction.
 
Lee Kuan Yew said that in a multiracial democracy, people don’t vote for policies but for their racial group.
 
I thought Singapore does have issues, along with a rigid control by authoritarian leadership.

Back in the 80s an American teen was publicly caned on the butt for something like spitting on the sidewalk.
 
steve_bank said:
I thought Singapore does have issues, along with a rigid control by authoritarian leadership.

Back in the 80s an American teen was publicly caned on the butt for something like spitting on the sidewalk.
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I remember that. I think it was actually the 90’s. Tabloids offered him $100,000 for a pic of his ass.

Ahh. Found it: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_P._Fay

And it was vandalism of several cars.
 
steve_bank said:
I thought Singapore does have issues, along with a rigid control by authoritarian leadership.

Back in the 80s an American teen was publicly caned on the butt for something like spitting on the sidewalk.
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SLD said:
steve_bank said:
I thought Singapore does have issues, along with a rigid control by authoritarian leadership.

Back in the 80s an American teen was publicly caned on the butt for something like spitting on the sidewalk.
Click to expand...

I remember that. I think it was actually the 90’s. Tabloids offered him $100,000 for a pic of his ass.

Ahh. Found it: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_P._Fay

And it was vandalism of several cars.
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What does this have to do with diversity in Singapore?
 
steve_bank said:
I thought Singapore does have issues, along with a rigid control by authoritarian leadership.

Back in the 80s an American teen was publicly caned on the butt for something like spitting on the sidewalk.
Click to expand...

I was once walking down Singapore's Orchard Road with phlegm in my mouth I wanted to get rid of. I couldn't find a trash can. I ended up buying a soft drink just to have a place to spit!
 
Does social stability with widely diverse groups require strong social controls for stability? Observation would say yes. Topple Hussien and armed factions began a civil war. Same in Libya.

COTUS was written in a time of a rural society with low population densities and power helf by white male Christians with a general common ideology. The western experiment in liberal democratic governance has yet to be proven workable.

An Indian immigrant who is an avowed Marxist out to bring down the current system is now running for mayor of Seattle. Progressives call that diversity and a good thing. Israel has had a hard time forming a workable coalition govt. How many iterations has Italy had?

Facilitating Muslim immigration in France as an assumed just thing to do failed. There has been no assimilation.

People who want to get in here and those who want to diminish whites claim large scale diversity is good. Any opposition is racist.

I think it is a case of be careful what you wish for, you might get it.

We dodged a bullet with Trump. From the accounts he more stumbled into it than planned it. Ifhe had actually been intelligent and more subtle he could have been reelected and gained more power by exploiting divisions.

The attack on the capitol is a canary in the coal mine. It is an indicator of what is lurking beneath the surface.
 
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