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Is there a God of atheism?

Do you have any evidence at all that any ancient people routinely or commonly sacrificed children to their gods?
It's been a long time now, but I believe I first got an understanding of this from an excellent book, Isaac Asimov's "Guide to the Bible".
Two main points:
For one thing, people knew almost nothing about the natural world. They attributed almost everything important to supernatural beings like gods. If your crops are bountiful it's a sign of divine favor. If a nasty illness starts destroying your livestock you've done something that made God angry. People made sacrifices all the time, sometimes little and sometimes big.

Also, children were valuable assets. You could start putting them to work while in single digits age. Nobody expected parents to supply 20 years of expensive support like education and health care. But adult children were also your best bet for support in old age. There were no pensions or anything.

So, sacrificing a child, especially a son, was a big deal sacrifice. Calamities and existential threats were an ordinary part of life, and people tried to curry favor with the gods, whether forgiveness or help, on a regular basis. Up to and including child sacrifice if the need was big enough.
Tom
Sure. But did it happen, and was it common?

Or was Asimov just repeating something he had heard somewhere; Or even making up something that he felt ought to be true? Or did you hear it from an even less reliable source?

When I ask for evidence, I am not only refusing to take your word for it; I am refusing to take the word of random single science writers with a gift for penning fiction, too.
 
Or was Asimov just repeating something he had heard somewhere; Or even making up something that he felt ought to be true?
You dare to question the greatest researcher of the 20th century!?

Begone with you. Go to some island country pretending to be a continent.
Oh wait...
Tom
 
Or was Asimov just repeating something he had heard somewhere; Or even making up something that he felt ought to be true?
You dare to question the greatest researcher of the 20th century!?

Begone with you. Go to some island country pretending to be a continent.
Oh wait...
Tom

A member of the great Trinity?Clarke, Asimov, and Heinlein?

Are you mad?
Tom
 
Mike Johnson, our esteemed Speaker, was asked on Fox how he'd make policy. "Well, go pick up a Bible off your shelf and read it. That's my worldview."

Ya know what would be great?

A staunch Christian asks Mike Johnson point blank:
"How do your policy goals comport with the Teachings of Jesus? Do you, as a Christian leader of America, think that Jesus's admonition "What you do for the Least you do for Me." should guide U.S. domestic policy concerning the homeless?"
Tom


2 Thessalonians 3:10 For even when we were with you, we would give you this command: If anyone is not willing to work, let him not eat.

1 Timothy 5:8: Anyone who does not provide for their relatives, and especially for their own household, has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever.

I'll take the next question from that handsome Fox news reporter over there now thank you!
 
2 Thessalonians 3:10 For even when we were with you, we would give you this command: If anyone is not willing to work, let him not eat.
Not Jesus.

1 Timothy 5:8: Anyone who does not provide for their relatives, and especially for their own household, has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever.
Not Jesus.

Christians might say that. But Jesus didn't, according to Scripture.
Tom
 
And now children for today's school yard exercise we play the game 'Asimov Says'.

If I say ;Asimov says doe something' you must do it. If I don't say 'Asimov Says' and you do do it you are out, and have to sit down.
 
And now children for today's school yard exercise we play the game 'Asimov Says'.

If I say ;Asimov says doe something' you must do it. If I don't say 'Asimov Says' and you do do it you are out, and have to sit down.

I'd ask why you posted such meaningless bullshit. But I'm pretty sure I already understand it.
Tom

ETA ~ Your post is the "not even wrong" category. ~
 
Some quote anyone in popular science with the same kind of faith some people quote Jesus..

Not a criticism per se, more like observation over time.

Us secular atheists s can be as susceptible as any theists.
 
Some quote anyone in popular science with the same kind of faith some people quote Jesus..

Not a criticism per se, more like observation over time.

Us secular atheists s can be as susceptible as any theists.
Here's the thing.
I'm no scholar on the subject of 4000 year old cultures. But I've read a bit, and didn't consider what I posted particularly controversial or difficult to find out more about if you care.

I didn't quote Asimov so much as name drop. He was a brilliant researcher and extremely good author. His ability to absorb a huge amount of information, then write accessible stuff about it is legendary. He also identified as an atheist, he was nothing like a religious apologist. So I found his book enlightening.
That's all.

It does seem to me some posters are trying to misrepresent the history to put scripture in the worst possible light.
Tom
 
I don't think it matters how frequent child sacrifice was and I do think that using words like "common" is very vague. What purpose does that line of inquiry serve?

IF you look at what Christian preachers say about Abraham, you see what I was getting at and why I brought it up. Here's an example:
...

For Christians, Abraham stands out as a model of one who has faith in God. There are many people in the Bible known for their faith in God Hebrews 11. If we were to identify one characteristic that sets Abraham faith apart from others, it was that he had courageous faith.

...

bigstock-Man-running-fast-to-jump-over-77204555-760.jpg


...

5. was willing to offer Isaac as a sacrifice to God Hebrews 11:13-19. It is impossible to imagine what Abraham went through as he walked with Isaac to the top of the mountain to obey God. The emotional pain he faced is hard for us to think about as spectators! Yet his courageous faith believed God would bring Isaac back to life.

I didn't make anything up here when I brought up Abraham and the idea of faith. Christian preachers are teaching that Abraham is the epitome of faith because he was willing to do a child sacrifice. He was willing to say fuck you to morals and logic. People in modern times, i.e. this very day, are saying this is great.

While it should be clear why leaders want the masses to lack critical thinking and skip basic moral intuition in favor of belief, what can't be justified is why a morally perfect being would expect a person to murder their own child and then glorify the person afterward for doing so. One must conclude the glorifications come from the leaders of the faithful to manufacture non-thinking people and from nowhere else.
 
I didn't make anything up here when I brought up Abraham and the idea of faith. Christian preachers are teaching that Abraham is the epitome of faith
I agree that your quote is also a modern spin on something that happened 4000 years ago(if at all).
Also a misrepresentation of the likely events from culture.
Tom
 
Some quote anyone in popular science with the same kind of faith some people quote Jesus..

Not a criticism per se, more like observation over time.

Us secular atheists s can be as susceptible as any theists.
Here's the thing.
I'm no scholar on the subject of 4000 year old cultures. But I've read a bit, and didn't consider what I posted particularly controversial or difficult to find out more about if you care.

I didn't quote Asimov so much as name drop. He was a brilliant researcher and extremely good author. His ability to absorb a huge amount of information, then write accessible stuff about it is legendary. He also identified as an atheist, he was nothing like a religious apologist. So I found his book enlightening.
That's all.

It does seem to me some posters are trying to misrepresent the history to put scripture in the worst possible light.
Tom
Guilty as charged.

Out in he word I can and do respect beliefs as long as it is it not directly intruding on me. If soebdy engages me trying to lay the Jesus trip on me I ill be polite, if that doesn't work I get blunt.

Christians are particular aggressive and intrusive. I never got hat from Jews or Christians I knew. Mor of a Hunan to human connection above beliefs. Of course there are ultra conservative Jews and Muslims out there.

We as atheists have to dispute Christian scripture, we have elected federal politicians who say thy want to base government on the bible.

The OT is about a violent oppressive culture , behavior common in the ancient world. And common today, tribalism is playing out before our eyes in Ukraine, Gaza, and Sudan.

You can quote mine pearls of wisdom from the bible as Christians do, but overall not a guide for individuals, a culture, or government. In the long history of Christianity the Christia scripture has been a siurce of wars and opression.

We see it play 0ut with the Israeli Zionits, and Iran vs Saudi Arabia Shia vs Suni Muslims.

You can argue Chisrtinity served as a social glue when the majority were illiterate. Don't lie, steal, or murder, or face eternal punisnent.

So yes, I see the bible alwys negative in the balance.
 
Christians are particular aggressive and intrusive. I never got hat from Jews

The OT is about a violent oppressive culture , behavior common in the ancient world.

You can quote mine pearls of wisdom from the bible as Christians do, but overall not a guide for individuals,
I agree with all of that.
I still try to be nuanced and informed.
So yes, I see the bible alwys negative in the balance.
I also agree with this. Unfortunately for western civilization, ancient Roman elites included nasty bronze age teachings in with the far superior teachings of Jesus. So people can pick and choose their moral code and attribute it to God.
Tom
 
Way back I tried to be nuanced an balanced, but over time negatives overwhelm the positives.
 
Way back I tried to be nuanced an balanced, but over time negatives overwhelm the positives.

I'm a gay nontheist, who has lived in deep Red Jesustan my whole life. A bit mouthy.
Yeah, I get it.

But here's another thing. One of my favorite people of all time was Pat Conard(RIP). She was a force. She epitomized "Social Justice Warrior" in the best of ways. From gynecologic missions to rural Haiti(EW!) to founding member of the local Gay/Straight Alliance, to board member of the best private aid organization in town, to women's issues(especially domestic abuse), to voter registration.
Everything.

She was also a staunch Catholic. The crap a Catholic woman who was also a Planned Parenthood clinician put up with was Amazing!

She epitomized "Preach the Gospel always. Use words only when necessary." Pat lived by Jesus's values.

There are people like that.
Tom
 
It comes down to the person.

I read Mother Teresa's book. She had critics and detractors, but she dealt with most etched and destitute in India. Aside from religion I thought she was remarkable.

She talked about walking down the street passing by a miserable dirty emaciated person. She backed up, picked him up, ad carried hm to her place.

She founded a new sisterhood, Missionaries of Charity. Mother Teresa and her helpers built homes for orphans, nursing homes for lepers and hospices for the terminally ill in Calcutta. Mother Teresa's organization also engaged in aid work in other parts of the world.

But then there are remarkable atheists, Hindus, Muslims. Jews and all the rest.

In the balance religion today is far more negative than positive IMO.

I went to Catholic schools. Looking back given my family situation the schools gave me enough support and structure to keep me from going off the deep end. Had I gone to public schools I might have become a statistic.

In my senior year in high school my father decided without warning to not pay the tuition. A charitable Catholic group paid the tuition. When I started making money in the 80s I sent a check to the school to help a kid out.

You are gay Tom? Christians are split. Pete Buttigieg is a Christian gay married man. On the other side are Lvotcus funsamatalists who would stone you to death.
 
non-thinking people
Spot on. Not all people possess/demonstrate this capacity .

Christians are split. Pete Buttigieg is a Christian gay married man. On the other side are Lvotcus funsamatalists who would stone you to death.
Which is why labels don't matter. It doesn't matter whether a great person was catholic. There are plenty of catholics who are shit. Just forget the labels.
 
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