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Is there any way out for "INDIVIDUAL-1"?

Elixir

Elixir

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Trying to put myself in Trump's shoes... it's getting difficult to see a way out.
If he doesn't start a war or come up with some "national emergency" that is more urgent than a group of barefoot refugees, he's going to get forced out of office no later than January 2021. And if he waits that long, it will be too late for a pardon. To get a pardon from President Pence he will have to resign after the 2020 election and before the new administration takes office. This would seem like an act of admission of both guilt and defeat that would be most uncharacteristic. More likely, he will spend the next 2 years trying to dismantle every system that poses a threat to his freedom. He is already testing those waters with his attacks on the judiciary and the installation of his stooge as head of DOJ. But as 2020 approaches it will become more and more apparent that he's not going to be able to void the Constitution and will lose not only his fortune (or rather his ability to accrue debt, which is likely all that he has) but his freedom as well.
What will he do? He's in a political dead end cul-de-sac, and I don't see a lot of options other than the above.
There is one other way out ... he could die.

ETA: typo in thread title s/b "Is there any way out..."
No way to edit thread titles?
 
He could, theoretically, have an introspective moment and start acting presidential. You know, he could win hearts and minds with wisdom, reason, compromise, and sense. And then after he wins a legitimate victory in 2020 and brings prosperity to all, his successor in 2024 will feel under no obligation to press for his indictment -- just like GW.

You know, ... theoretically.
 
I don't think so. What the last election demonstrated is that he lacks sufficient support to save himself. Assuming that the Mueller probe and the Dem congressional committees demonstrate criminal behaviour on his part (which is a pretty safe assumption), he does not have the backing to do anything about it.

I doubt he'll get impeached, simply because you won't get enough GOP Senators voting for that short of Trump walking out onto the White House lawn and saying something mildly complimentary of Hillary Clinton, but things may become untenable enough for him that he'll decide that he's been so successful in his one term as President that it make it unfair to all past and future Presidents by having them be compared to a full two terms of his amazing rule.
 
The new administration could just call off the dogs and protect him in order to save the fallout that could occur. Some deal could also be reached with states that are biding their time, waiting to prosecute him. It would be a terrible thing for him to walk free though. It would show that a POTUS can get away with anything, which would pave the way for a much smarter, forward thinking, and experienced politician to basically end the U.S. government as it now exists, and take office for life.
 
On top of the venality and ego, he's just so DUMB. And his Guiliani-league advisers are either his mental equals or can't contain him. I have to believe that his essential blindness will nudge him into an inescapable corner. Most of all I want him to find a big big package under the Christmas tree, from Mueller.
 
Opoponax said:
The new administration could just call off the dogs and protect him in order to save the fallout that could occur.
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that was Ford's exact logic, and it made him a lame duck for the redt of his term. The next pres is probably going to run on a ticket promising retribution, not forgiveness. A "return to the rule of law" or something likje that. An era of personnal responsibility...


And just think of what someone competent could accomplish with a cooperative Congress, while the press and the nation was watching Trump's crucifixion.
 
He thinks like a mob boss. He thinks he is a mob boss. Which means, once it gets too personal, he'll flip (even though he's the one everyone is flipping on at the moment). Which in turn means, he'll try--at the very last minute--to make a deal and that would likely mean resignation. It's the only way he can get out without losing everything.

The problem is, of course, he can't help but shoot himself in the foot every time he opens his mouth, so his ego will refuse to allow him to fully comply with any of the scripts that will be written for him.

Mueller's job is to lay out the evidence in such a manner that no one--not even deplorables--can deny. Some will, of course, but they are irrelevant. The report--and the subsequent House investigation it spurs--will be a very public display where 2+2 will be repeated ten thousand times so that it's plain to see and Trump's only option will be resignation.

I'm going to repeat that, because I don't think people are going to understand. It will be spelled out in a manner that can not be denied and in such detail that Trump will have no other option but resignation. Everything else ancillary to that will be a dumbshow of rhetorical bluster, but it will have no lasting effect and Trump will have no other option but resignation.

So, it's not a question of what will he do. He will resign. It's just a question of how long it takes Mueller and the House to reveal everything against him. If that takes us into another general election--like Wategate did with Nixon--that's a remote possibility, but, again, it will end with him resigning no matter what.
 
He'll always have an option aside from resignation. That option would be not giving a shit and refusing to resign and spending the entire time in campaign mode rallying the base so that the Republicans are too nervous to oppose him out of fear of getting primaried so that they do nothing. Then he can declare war on someone and have the country unite behind its President.
 
Tom Sawyer said:
He'll always have an option aside from resignation.
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Again, it's not up to him. He will be forced into a position where the ONLY option will be resignation. Or suicide, which is just as acceptable.

That option would be not giving a shit
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He's too narcissistic to not give a shit. There's a difference between pretending to not give a shit (and be protected by your privilege) and facing having your privilege stripped from you and you ending up in prison. Trump is a coward. But more importantly, it will be the influence of his family (well, Ivanka, as she's the only one he gives a shit about).

and refusing to resign and spending the entire time in campaign mode rallying the base so that the Republicans are too nervous to oppose him out of fear of getting primaried so that they do nothing.
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The midterms proved to all of them that his support doesn't matter and actually hurts their chances, not helps them.

Then he can declare war on someone and have the country unite behind its President.
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Evidently not, as has been made clear a couple of times with the "leaks" that he's not in charge and that there is now an actual "deep state" that is stopping him from doing any such things. Plus, he can't declare war, only Congress can do that. The only thing he could try to do is use the AUMF, but to do that he'd be restricted to justifying it exclusively through "terrorists" and then only in light of the "deep state" condition.
 
What do you mean it will be his ONLY option? Who is it that you feel will be forcing him into a position? That's the part I don't get.

And yes, the midterms have shown that his support doesn't help them in the general election. However, the GOP base is still fully behind him and that's not changing, so going against Trump means that they get primaried and don't make it to the general election. It's enough of a problem for them that they need to walk a tightrope of not taking a side and that has them doing nothing, which only benefits Trump.

Trump lives in his own little world and invents his own reality. The facts on the ground aren't much of a factor for him.
 
Tom Sawyer said:
What do you mean it will be his ONLY option?
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I mean that the case will be laid out in such a manner as to leave him no option but to resign. Or kill himself.

Who is it that you feel will be forcing him into a position?
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Mueller's report will be the catalyst. Ultimately, it will be his family that convinces him (Ivanka, most likely as she's the only thing in this world he actually gives a shit about).

And yes, the midterms have shown that his support doesn't help them in the general election. However, the GOP base is still fully behind him and that's not changing
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The deplorables may be (that's his base), but the midterms showed the GOP base (the ones that matter) that he's toxic to them. Don't forget that there's another Congressional rout coming up in 2020 too, only this time it will be the Senate Republicans that are on the defensive.

It's enough of a problem for them that they need to walk a tightrope of not taking a side and that has them doing nothing, which only benefits Trump.f
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You're right that they--the Republicans in the Senate--would likely not do anything; i.e., if the House initiates impeachment, the current Republicans in the Senate (as it stands right now), probably woudn't support it, but that will change significantly with the release of the Mueller report and the subsequent House hearings it will generate. As I said, the first step Mueller is taking is to make sure his report is exhaustive and conclusive. I.e., it won't leave any room for anything other than straight out gainsaying, but that can't be sustained.

So, you have to think in terms of Mueller's report being an undeniable bullet to Trump's brain and not merely a bunch of hot air. Iow, the report will compel acceptance by the majority, whether they publicly acknowledge it or not. And then the very public House hearings will be the second, third, fourth, fifth.....seventieth bullets to the rest of his body to leave no possible mistake that he's dead.

Which in turn means that everything will be negotiated in back rooms and Trump's fate--that he has no other choice but to resign--will be settled for him.

Trump lives in his own little world and invents his own reality. The facts on the ground aren't much of a factor for him.
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Yes, of course, there will always be--as I pointed out--the fact that Trump's ego tourette's won't allow him to follow the script written for him, but by then it won't matter. He's already a dead man walking and he knows it. Hence all of his actions.

Think of it this way. Mueller is the expert sniper who has already fired the bullet, it's just that, because he's two miles out it takes a while for the bullet to hit its target. We--the pleebs--are just waiting for the bullet to hit the target (metaphorically speaking of course in case the SS is reading).

I assert this with such confidence because Mueller likewise has no other option but to present a report that is so detailed and so devastating as to compel acceptance among even the most ardent defenders of Trump in Congress as well as the GOP base (not the deplorables; they no longer matter).

And the fact that Mueller hasn't taken any of the dozen or so outs that Trump has tried to orchestrate (and no doubt other Republicans in Congress) proves that he's intent on destroying Trump, not merely gathering some fluff that will easily drift away once revealed.

Iow, at this point in the game, it's Mueller's intellect, experience and reputation vs. Trump. And THEN the House, which, again, will be a public flogging of epic proportions.
 
Koyaanisqatsi said:
I mean that the case will be laid out in such a manner as to leave him no option but to resign. Or kill himself.
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Yes, this is the vagueness and lack of detail which I'm asking about. I just don't see how irrelevant things like "facts" and "detailed evidence" are going to influence him. He can just call them fake news and ignore them while having a primary opponent for a GOP Senator up on stage with him at a rally in their state. He's poisoned the water so much amongst his base that everything said can be dismissed out of hand.

Some on the GOP may find it politically expedient enough to turn against him as a result, but you'll need 19 or 20 of them to directly vote to fire the guy their base loves in order to remove him from office and the numbers won't be that high and Trump will continue to fight and scrap no matter how poor the odds are against him and there's zero chance of him doing the honorable thing for his country and party and stepping aside willingly. A coalition may arise to primary him at the GOP convention, but there aren't going to be enough GOP Senators willing to kick him out of office before that.
 
Elixir said:
Trying to put myself in Trump's shoes... it's getting difficult to see a way out.
If he doesn't start a war or come up with some "national emergency" that is more urgent than a group of barefoot refugees, he's going to get forced out of office no later than January 2021. And if he waits that long, it will be too late for a pardon. To get a pardon from President Pence he will have to resign after the 2020 election and before the new administration takes office. This would seem like an act of admission of both guilt and defeat that would be most uncharacteristic. More likely, he will spend the next 2 years trying to dismantle every system that poses a threat to his freedom. He is already testing those waters with his attacks on the judiciary and the installation of his stooge as head of DOJ. But as 2020 approaches it will become more and more apparent that he's not going to be able to void the Constitution and will lose not only his fortune (or rather his ability to accrue debt, which is likely all that he has) but his freedom as well.
What will he do? He's in a political dead end cul-de-sac, and I don't see a lot of options other than the above.
There is one other way out ... he could die.
Click to expand...

Medical reasons would be one. He might have something seriously wrong with his brain like Reagan did and it may be getting worse. When he's cooked in a year like Reagan with Iran-Contra he may be just too far gone. And then afterward everyone can call him a hero.

Another possibility is he can get out by blaming the Deep State and Media and say he wants to save his family from all the politics. He can claim the media went after Melania, Baron, and now Ivanka and it's not worth it. Bad liberal media. Biased. Terrible. Etc. Maybe Pence will pardon him on the way out, too, ala Nixon. I thought he'd do that already, like a couple of months back, but since his brain is far gone, he cannot face reality.

Elixir said:
ETA: typo in thread title s/b "Is there any way out..."
No way to edit thread titles?
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Yes. You can actually double-click near the thread title in the forum where the threads are listed. You can edit it from there if you own it and time is within the edit time.
 
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Did I miss a major news item? Has the Meuller investigation at long last revealed damning evidence of criminal activity on Trump's part?

Have we seen a big enough shift that would nail him down when GW Bush and Darth Cheney weren't?

Or is this all still hopeful dreaming?
 
The Mueller investigation isn't needed for Trump. He's already put his foot in his mouth 50 times over. It is needed for everyone else though.
 
It's all wishful thinking at this point. I'm not at all convinced that he will resign because, although Nixon was kind of nutty, Trump sometimes seems to be totally delusional. I took care of quite a few seriously mentally ill folks when I was still working. Trump is beginning to remind me of one of my favorite patients, except that she was in a facility and totally harmless. She insisted that we called her Queen. She believed she had palaces in several places, was once married to Elvis, etc. Trump hasn't reached that point yet, but just listen to some of the things that he's been saying lately. He sounds as if he's having delusions. I'm not sure he's mentally healthy enough to realize how much damage he's done. Of course, I could be wrong, but since we all have our own weird, unproven opinions, mine isn't any crazier than the rest. :D

To be totally honest, I don't think anyone knows what will happen. Trump is unlike any president I've ever seen and I was a young adult when Nixon was president. There's no comparison. Nixon was corrupt and a bit paranoid, but his nuttiness was nothing compared to the current president's.
 
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