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Is Trump Exceeding Constitutional Authority?

Don2 (Don1 Revised)

Don2 (Don1 Revised)

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Telling people to shut up is only slightly annoying to me in context since he's saying they can't speak as the US agency, though it smacks of totalitarianism.

But all these Executive Orders suddenly...that seem to run up against laws...like to "ease the burden of ObamaCare" that seems so vague as to get people to act illegally, thinking incorrectly they have permission.

The latest Executive Order to build the wall--that one is very surprising to me. Doesn't Congress have to approve that first? I mean, funding bills need to start in the House of Reps and so forth, no? What money is he using to do this project and how was it allocated for this purpose?

He's coming in acting as an aggressive CEO, not a legitimate President. I'm not sure that all these things he is doing are constitutional.

Do you know any specific orders he is writing/has writen that you think are unconstitutional?
 
I'm not so sure that - at this point - the constitutionality of his orders is the issue. Fact is, challenges to any of his missives could take years to wind through the courts.

The legislative branch has more than enough authority to put the kibosh on some of this stuff, but what worries me is that they're so excited to have a President that will sign their bullshit without bothering to read it that they're not bothering to take his bullshit seriously.

I mean, of course there's a funding issue with the wall, but the last time we had a GOP Congress and White House, the question of "is this fiscally responsible?" wasn't even on the table. And while a few deficit hawks may blanch at a few hundred billion for a border wall, I'd say most of the Republicans on the hill would gladly go a bit deeper in debt if they could publicly dance on the grave of Obamacare, Planned Parenthood, and Public Broadcasting.
 
Don2 (Don1 Revised) said:
Telling people to shut up is only slightly annoying to me in context since he's saying they can't speak as the US agency, though it smacks of totalitarianism.

But all these Executive Orders suddenly...that seem to run up against laws...like to "ease the burden of ObamaCare" that seems so vague as to get people to act illegally, thinking incorrectly they have permission.

The latest Executive Order to build the wall--that one is very surprising to me. Doesn't Congress have to approve that first? I mean, funding bills need to start in the House of Reps and so forth, no? What money is he using to do this project and how was it allocated for this purpose?

He's coming in acting as an aggressive CEO, not a legitimate President. I'm not sure that all these things he is doing are constitutional.

Do you know any specific orders he is writing/has writen that you think are unconstitutional?
Click to expand...

It doesn't need funding approval from the House if Mexico is paying for it.
 
bilby said:
Don2 (Don1 Revised) said:
Telling people to shut up is only slightly annoying to me in context since he's saying they can't speak as the US agency, though it smacks of totalitarianism.

But all these Executive Orders suddenly...that seem to run up against laws...like to "ease the burden of ObamaCare" that seems so vague as to get people to act illegally, thinking incorrectly they have permission.

The latest Executive Order to build the wall--that one is very surprising to me. Doesn't Congress have to approve that first? I mean, funding bills need to start in the House of Reps and so forth, no? What money is he using to do this project and how was it allocated for this purpose?

He's coming in acting as an aggressive CEO, not a legitimate President. I'm not sure that all these things he is doing are constitutional.

Do you know any specific orders he is writing/has writen that you think are unconstitutional?
Click to expand...

It doesn't need funding approval from the House if Mexico is paying for it.
Click to expand...

He's planning to send Mexico a bill after it's done. He's fronting the cost.
 
I think Mexico may only pay for this if it gets deals from the USA. That is to say if it makes increased savings by way of reduced tariffs, any increased aid, investment in Mexican industries,and other means.
Mexico may then allocate some payments to the USA from what it has effectively gained before doing this.
I''m not sure that this would cover the whole cost but as a result of any USA assistance and concessions it will pay some towards out of gains and savings arising out of US cooperation. This is just a speculative guess.
 
whichphilosophy said:
I think Mexico may only pay for this if it gets deals from the USA. That is to say if it makes increased savings by way of reduced tariffs, any increased aid, investment in Mexican industries,and other means.
Mexico may then allocate some payments to the USA from what it has effectively gained before doing this.
I''m not sure that this would cover the whole cost but as a result of any USA assistance and concessions it will pay some towards out of gains and savings arising out of US cooperation. This is just a speculative guess pointless shit with zero actual value.
Click to expand...
FTFY.
 
bilby said:
whichphilosophy said:
I think Mexico may only pay for this if it gets deals from the USA. That is to say if it makes increased savings by way of reduced tariffs, any increased aid, investment in Mexican industries,and other means.
Mexico may then allocate some payments to the USA from what it has effectively gained before doing this.
I''m not sure that this would cover the whole cost but as a result of any USA assistance and concessions it will pay some towards out of gains and savings arising out of US cooperation. This is just a speculative guess pointless shit with zero actual value.
Click to expand...
FTFY.
Click to expand...

Clearly you don't understand how politics has works for the past 10,000 years.
Dealings between countries are reciprocal. While I said speculative I'm not sure of the exact format but can guess.
Do you think that Trump or any other US leader would expect that Mexico will say yes to paying for the Wall?
Of course not he and Mexico will negotiate this. The best way would be various deals and concessions that effectively resolve this.

There will be upfront costs for the USA but then something which can be passed through Congress and the Senate, also showing how this can be effectively and often indirectly recouped through how I mentioned.
 
hurtinbuckaroo said:
bilby said:
It doesn't need funding approval from the House if Mexico is paying for it.
Click to expand...

He's planning to send Mexico a bill after it's done. He's fronting the cost.
Click to expand...

The work has to be agreed or Mexico would not pay the bill. There is a likelihood that Mexico may never pay this off. I think as I suggest a number of deals and exchanges should be struck before this point as I hinted earlier. The danger in this is that protracted negotiations would delay the start of construction.
 
From another discussion:

I'm not sure the Administration Procedures Act (1947) agrees with that since the act limits the executive in that regard. Trump in his orders is not making or destroying rules. The power to change rules is within the executive's discretion, but all rule changes must undergo an administrative procedural process that does not involve the president. It is also within the power of Congress to remove this power from the executive (Squirrel 2017).

So in other words when you read the executive orders they skirt the law directly, but direct currently non-existent secretaries to begin the process of carrying them out.



APA Citation:
Squirrel, N. (2017, January 26). Trump - "We think we can cut regulations by 75 percent, maybe more, but by 75 percent". Retrieved January 26, 2017, from https://talkfreethought.org/showthr...5-percent-quot&p=377512&viewfull=1#post377512
 
whichphilosophy said:
hurtinbuckaroo said:
He's planning to send Mexico a bill after it's done. He's fronting the cost.
Click to expand...

The work has to be agreed or Mexico would not pay the bill. There is a likelihood that Mexico may never pay this off. I think as I suggest a number of deals and exchanges should be struck before this point as I hinted earlier. The danger in this is that protracted negotiations would delay the start of construction.
Click to expand...

It's more than a likelihood. Paying a dime towards this wall would be political suicide for not only the Mexican President, but also his entire party and probably anyone who's ever been caught in the background of a photograph with him. The whole "We won't be paying for this" is not the starting position for a negotiation, but a firm end point which won't be moved from.

If the US wants a wall, the US will be spending its own money for that wall.
 
Don2 (Don1 Revised) said:
The latest Executive Order to build the wall--that one is very surprising to me. Doesn't Congress have to approve that first? I mean, funding bills need to start in the House of Reps and so forth, no? What money is he using to do this project and how was it allocated for this purpose?
Click to expand...
Presidents do have some flexibility to shift spending within a departments budget, except where Congress has specified a specific sub-spending level for project/subject XYZ. With that said, I think that is all Don the Con's EO is at this point. However, not buying 100,000 paper clips, won't build a 6 inch wall to make up for his tiny hands.

Even Tweetle-dum's outbursts won't work w/o a multi-billion dollar Congressional funding plan. Though with a boast to general funding for border patrol/immigration agents, and increased security and improved barriers at popular points could put a real dent in the flows. However, by summer the agriculture industry will be screaming for workers w/o a major overhaul of the green card program. And consumers might not be very happy paying 20% to 50% more for fruits and veggies either, as food rots in the fields on our nightly news.
 
Not to mention who is going to do the prep work for star chefs in our fancy restaurants.
 
Don2 (Don1 Revised) said:
Telling people to shut up is only slightly annoying to me in context since he's saying they can't speak as the US agency, though it smacks of totalitarianism.

But all these Executive Orders suddenly...that seem to run up against laws...like to "ease the burden of ObamaCare" that seems so vague as to get people to act illegally, thinking incorrectly they have permission.

The latest Executive Order to build the wall--that one is very surprising to me. Doesn't Congress have to approve that first? I mean, funding bills need to start in the House of Reps and so forth, no? What money is he using to do this project and how was it allocated for this purpose?

He's coming in acting as an aggressive CEO, not a legitimate President. I'm not sure that all these things he is doing are constitutional.

Do you know any specific orders he is writing/has writen that you think are unconstitutional?
Click to expand...

Probably, but I haven't read his recent orders to decide for myself.

Better question - if he is exceeding constitutional authority, is he doing so more than his predecessors have?
 
I believe a bill was passed in 2006 that authorizes a barrier, but Congress needs to pony up funds to pay for it.
 
What President Nieto needs to do is have 10,000 people from Mexico, Central ans South America,waiting at the boarder. Waiting to Cross the boarder at the location when Cheetolini starts to build the wall.

Later,
ElectEngr
 
The wall order is more of a goal statement, because the agencies can only build so far as they already have funding already in their budget, so he needs Congress to fund it. Good use of tax dollars.

The order on sanctuary cities does have constitutional issues though.
 
Are the Trump supporters squirming yet?

They claimed Donald would make MEXICO pay for the wall.

The Mexican president just told the Donald to fuck off when the Donald said not to bother visiting if he wasn't going to pay for the wall. Nieto said, "Hasta la vista, baby."

Now, WE'RE going to pay for it? We don't have the money to do it first off. The illegals will just bring a ladder or dig a tunnel and lastly,

Donald you dumb fuck, the border of Texas and Mexico is a river. We don't OWN the river. You can't put a wall on a river, you midget brained piece of offal.
 
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