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islam is growing in the west

I think that the more rational religious groups morph into sense and science, whereas the irrational ones tend to pick up people with doubts for a long time., and still those doubts with Authority It was so with Romanism in the UK for a long time, but it doesn't last forever. Islam's once-and-forever revelation is an all-or-nothing thing, backed by bully-boys and laws that contradict human rights, so it will last a lot longer than, say, Unitarianism.
 
crispy said:
Syed said:
what make more sense that universe and living thing have a creator or does not have a creator?
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A creator doesn't make sense. Especially not when you try give it all sorts of superfluous attributes such as loving, all-knowing, justice and so on...
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universe without god makes sense ? why?
 
C_Mucius_Scaevola said:
It makes more sense to me that the universe doesn't have a creator. This is mostly for reasons you either wouldn't understand or wouldn't want to understand. All I will say is that there is evidence for the existence of the universe everywhere I look, listen or feel. For a creator thereof ... not so much. The way things are, the way seeming order always turns out to be nothing more than "seeming" - everything we know or discover leads inexorably to the belief that there is no Grand Plan in place, there is no Divine Planner behind it all. Things are as they are because that's the way they worked out, not because some super being in the sky wanted them to work out that way. (BTW, we've checked the sky, and there's no super being there ... where should we llook next?)

Syed said:
you do know evolution and theory of biogenesis is BS
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No, I know that evolution is the best explanation of how we arrived at the place where we are. It fits with all the evidence and shows Creationism up for the stupidity that it is. Abiogenisis fits the evidence as well; the only question is "how", not "whether" it happened. One way I'm sure it didn't happen is by some super being telling things to "be", and suddenly they were. That's like some shit out of Harry Potter or Hans Christian Anderson. Nice stories for the kids, but there must be something wrong with an adult who still believes it.

And you still haven't answered my question: by what mechanism did this Allah of yours create not only life, but the universe and everything it contains? Do you have an answer to that that contains more than just a wave of the hands and a "yadda, yadda, yadda, there was a universe"?
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the reason we believe in god because that NOTING can happen without make it happen

for atheist universe is a magical universe it can creates itself
 
Syed said:
the reason we believe in god because that NOTING can happen without make it happen

for atheist universe is a magical universe it can creates itself
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And you still haven't answered my question: by what mechanism did this Allah of yours create not only life, but the universe and everything it contains? Do you have an answer to that that contains more than just a wave of the hands and a "yadda, yadda, yadda, there was a universe"?
 
Syed said:
crispy said:
A creator doesn't make sense. Especially not when you try give it all sorts of superfluous attributes such as loving, all-knowing, justice and so on...
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universe without god makes sense ? why?
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The same reason that an ice cream cone without unicorns make sense.
 
Syed said:
crispy said:
A creator doesn't make sense. Especially not when you try give it all sorts of superfluous attributes such as loving, all-knowing, justice and so on...
Click to expand...
universe without god makes sense ? why?
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Does a game of chess stop making sense when you take the dice away from the players?

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Syed said:
the reason we believe in god because that NOTING can happen without make it happen
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Noted.
 
C_Mucius_Scaevola said:
Syed said:
the reason we believe in god because that NOTING can happen without make it happen

for atheist universe is a magical universe it can creates itself
Click to expand...

And you still haven't answered my question: by what mechanism did this Allah of yours create not only life, but the universe and everything it contains? Do you have an answer to that that contains more than just a wave of the hands and a "yadda, yadda, yadda, there was a universe"?
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that was MY QUESTION not YOURS what is the mechanism that universe create itself?

so go ahead explain
 
Syed said:
C_Mucius_Scaevola said:
And you still haven't answered my question: by what mechanism did this Allah of yours create not only life, but the universe and everything it contains? Do you have an answer to that that contains more than just a wave of the hands and a "yadda, yadda, yadda, there was a universe"?
Click to expand...

that was MY QUESTION not YOURS what is the mechanism that universe create itself?

so go ahead explain
Click to expand...
You say nothing can happen without god (Actually, you said that noting can happen without god, but chances are that you meant nothing rather than stenography). And you've claimed that makes more sense than a universe without a creator.
But the implication of that claim is that your skybeast created life and all of reality.
That makes 'how?' a reasonable question to ask you.

And you have absolutely no way to answer it without hand waving, so you try to distract and evade... Too bad the rest of us have attention spans.
 
What a stupid post - same religion that says 64 virgins are waiting for you in heaven? Women have to hide under Burkhas from sex-crazy men? Same religion that dominates countries where mass killings, terrorism, poverty is the order of the day? Minorities fleeing from these countries as fast as they can? Muslims running away from their countries trying to get to europe?
Listen, there is no Sugar Daddy God - there is no heaven - no magic Sugar Daddy waiting to keep you in comfort - it is just a fantasy
Would any father divide his own children? But a Master gladly would - these are Master/Slave religions - born when Kings ruled with an iron fist - no democracy - belief is the other word for Loyalty - the King demanded loyalty from his subjects - just a primitive religion
 
Keith&Co. said:
Syed said:
that was MY QUESTION not YOURS what is the mechanism that universe create itself?

so go ahead explain
Click to expand...
You say nothing can happen without god (Actually, you said that noting can happen without god, but chances are that you meant nothing rather than stenography). And you've claimed that makes more sense than a universe without a creator.
But the implication of that claim is that your skybeast created life and all of reality.
That makes 'how?' a reasonable question to ask you.

And you have absolutely no way to answer it without hand waving, so you try to distract and evade... Too bad the rest of us have attention spans.
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i dont understand your question

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Ramaraksha said:
What a stupid post - same religion that says 64 virgins are waiting for you in heaven? Women have to hide under Burkhas from sex-crazy men? Same religion that dominates countries where mass killings, terrorism, poverty is the order of the day? Minorities fleeing from these countries as fast as they can? Muslims running away from their countries trying to get to europe?
Listen, there is no Sugar Daddy God - there is no heaven - no magic Sugar Daddy waiting to keep you in comfort - it is just a fantasy
Would any father divide his own children? But a Master gladly would - these are Master/Slave religions - born when Kings ruled with an iron fist - no democracy - belief is the other word for Loyalty - the King demanded loyalty from his subjects - just a primitive religion
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hanuman ji are you ok?
 
Syed said:
crispy said:
A creator doesn't make sense. Especially not when you try give it all sorts of superfluous attributes such as loving, all-knowing, justice and so on...
Click to expand...
universe without god makes sense ? why?
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It makes sense because it is simpler. It is simpler because in a universe without god you wont also have to explain god. Explain to me why god is loving. And no, I don't believe in your book, so please reference something else.
 
Syed said:
C_Mucius_Scaevola said:
And you still haven't answered my question: by what mechanism did this Allah of yours create not only life, but the universe and everything it contains? Do you have an answer to that that contains more than just a wave of the hands and a "yadda, yadda, yadda, there was a universe"?
Click to expand...

that was MY QUESTION not YOURS what is the mechanism that universe create itself?

so go ahead explain
Click to expand...

The answer is "we don't know". We don't have the arrogance to make up explanations when we don't know. Another answer is that it is possible that the question doesn't even make sense, because time did not exists before the universe existed.

If you really want to understand the argument you are trying to make, try to watch some youtube videos refuting the argument.
 
crispy said:
Syed said:
universe without god makes sense ? why?
Click to expand...

It makes sense because it is simpler. It is simpler because in a universe without god you wont also have to explain god. Explain to me why god is loving. And no, I don't believe in your book, so please reference something else.
Click to expand...

Since Syed has no problem making absolutist certain claims, you could as easily say that a universe without god makes sense because that is reality. Reality makes more since than fairy tails. :eek:
 
skepticalbip said:
crispy said:
It makes sense because it is simpler. It is simpler because in a universe without god you wont also have to explain god. Explain to me why god is loving. And no, I don't believe in your book, so please reference something else.
Click to expand...

Since Syed has no problem making absolutist certain claims, you could as easily say that a universe without god makes sense because that is reality. Reality makes more since than fairy tails. :eek:
Click to expand...

cars without engineers makes no sense

universe / life without god makes no sense
 
Keith&Co. said:
Syed said:
i dont understand your question
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How surprising.

HOW did Allah make everything?
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I bet Syed cannot point to a single thing created directly by God.

Also the first law of thermodynamics states that mass/energy can neither be created or destroyed.

One wonders why God violates his own laws...? :thinking:
 
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