Islam just can't stand images of Mohammed

[repoman]

This guy is under threat (if he is honest) for eating pages from the Quran.

 

[J842P]

Well, that’s BS. Parker and Stone wrote a broadway musical mocking Mormons, and the Mormon Church put advertising in the playbills. Every country that executes for blasphemy is Muslim. Muslims can open mosques in predominantly Christian countries but new churches in muslim countries are mostly barred. (There are exceptions, of course.) The effort to equate the two religions is just unpersuasive. As an atheist, I am undoubtedly safer in a Christian country than a Muslim one.

Sure, but that's just because Christianity in those countries has been defeated by secularism. Make no mistake, you would see practically the same behavior if it weren't the case. Indeed, you did see the same behavior for centuries.

But yes, trying to pretend like the Muslim world isn't uniquely problematic in this regard today, right now, is silly.

I think part of the issue is developmental. All the christian countries out there you might care to look at are well and truly "modern" in terms of basic education and economic buildout.

With islamic countries, the educational and economic technology level is usually much lower, on average, with much higher levels of theocratic involvement as well. There's not enough "herd immunity", formal secular education, to damp out the rage and cultural taboo of such art.

I mean, christians frequently get butthurt over "happy holidays", but we have been conditioned to react to religious disappointment in alternative ways to extents that mitigate the result from violence to mere complaint.

It is not problematic due to islam, more, religion in undereducated/undeveloped pools is problematic to freedom within the educated/developed pool. It's merely "accidental" that this happens to be largely Islam in the current instance.

That said, it's no accident; It is a result of many centuries of crusades. But rather it's not "islam" that caused this, and it is not unique to Islam. It would happen irrespective of what religion is held by underdeveloped people that were literally attacked back to the bronze age over the course of centuries

I disagree that it is about education/economic development, although a lack of those does not help. But they are hardly sufficient conditions for a secular society. It isn't hard to imagine an economically advanced, well-educate and yet theocratic state. Atheists, I think, very conveniently dismiss religious people as simply "backward" and in need of "eduction". It's a dangerous misunderstanding.

Also, I disagree with your characterization of the current situation being the result of "many centuries of crusades," it is simply ahistorical, to put it politely.
Quite frankly, this seems like the typical Western chauvinist mindset that tries to understand the rest of the world only in the context of the West.

The Islamic world had various empires, indeed, it was Islamic expansionism that provoked the the Crusades. The actual Crusades were a small part of that history, maybe 200 years, and in the end the Christian crusaders were beaten back (and were already starting to become increasingly pathetic by the end of the Second Crusade). Various different Islamic Empires followed before we get to the modern times. Indeed, the history of Islam is one of various Caliphates sweeping across vast swaths of the world, erasing the local cultures and supplanting them with Arabization. Most of the people that we might call "Arab" aren't really Arab. It is similar to the case of a a person from France not being "Roman" although they still speak a Romantic language, albeit the Islamic conquests had an even greater impact on the conquered regions.

And they weren't "underdeveloped people". Again, this is to put it as politely as possible, completely ahistorical. And dripping of Western chauvinism. Islamic Empires were major players on the world stage. Theirs is not a history of being "attacked back in to the bronze age" by "centuries of crusades".

 

[Trausti]

I think part of the issue is developmental. All the christian countries out there you might care to look at are well and truly "modern" in terms of basic education and economic buildout.

With islamic countries, the educational and economic technology level is usually much lower, on average, with much higher levels of theocratic involvement as well. There's not enough "herd immunity", formal secular education, to damp out the rage and cultural taboo of such art.

I mean, christians frequently get butthurt over "happy holidays", but we have been conditioned to react to religious disappointment in alternative ways to extents that mitigate the result from violence to mere complaint.

It is not problematic due to islam, more, religion in undereducated/undeveloped pools is problematic to freedom within the educated/developed pool. It's merely "accidental" that this happens to be largely Islam in the current instance.

That said, it's no accident; It is a result of many centuries of crusades. But rather it's not "islam" that caused this, and it is not unique to Islam. It would happen irrespective of what religion is held by underdeveloped people that were literally attacked back to the bronze age over the course of centuries

I disagree that it is about education/economic development, although a lack of those does not help. But they are hardly sufficient conditions for a secular society. It isn't hard to imagine an economically advanced, well-educate and yet theocratic state. Atheists, I think, very conveniently dismiss religious people as simply "backward" and in need of "eduction". It's a dangerous misunderstanding.

Also, I disagree with your characterization of the current situation being the result of "many centuries of crusades," it is simply ahistorical, to put it politely.
Quite frankly, this seems like the typical Western chauvinist mindset that tries to understand the rest of the world only in the context of the West.

The Islamic world had various empires, indeed, it was Islamic expansionism that provoked the the Crusades. The actual Crusades were a small part of that history, maybe 200 years, and in the end the Christian crusaders were beaten back (and were already starting to become increasingly pathetic by the end of the Second Crusade). Various different Islamic Empires followed before we get to the modern times. Indeed, the history of Islam is one of various Caliphates sweeping across vast swaths of the world, erasing the local cultures and supplanting them with Arabization. Most of the people that we might call "Arab" aren't really Arab. It is similar to the case of a a person from France not being "Roman" although they still speak a Romantic language, albeit the Islamic conquests had an even greater impact on the conquered regions.

And they weren't "underdeveloped people". Again, this is to put it as politely as possible, completely ahistorical. And dripping of Western chauvinism.

Arab/Islamic world is much more tribal. High rates of cousin marriage. This creates lower trust societies and probably depresses IQ from inbreeding.

 

[laughing dog]

Killing people over religious images is barbaric. Christianity used to promote such atrocities but it doesn't any more. And those "Christians" who would do so if given the legal opportunity are simply incipient barbarians held back by a more civilized society.

It is time for some of Islam to move past this barbaric practice.

 

[Jarhyn]

I think part of the issue is developmental. All the christian countries out there you might care to look at are well and truly "modern" in terms of basic education and economic buildout.

With islamic countries, the educational and economic technology level is usually much lower, on average, with much higher levels of theocratic involvement as well. There's not enough "herd immunity", formal secular education, to damp out the rage and cultural taboo of such art.

I mean, christians frequently get butthurt over "happy holidays", but we have been conditioned to react to religious disappointment in alternative ways to extents that mitigate the result from violence to mere complaint.

It is not problematic due to islam, more, religion in undereducated/undeveloped pools is problematic to freedom within the educated/developed pool. It's merely "accidental" that this happens to be largely Islam in the current instance.

That said, it's no accident; It is a result of many centuries of crusades. But rather it's not "islam" that caused this, and it is not unique to Islam. It would happen irrespective of what religion is held by underdeveloped people that were literally attacked back to the bronze age over the course of centuries

I disagree that it is about education/economic development, although a lack of those does not help. But they are hardly sufficient conditions for a secular society. It isn't hard to imagine an economically advanced, well-educate and yet theocratic state. Atheists, I think, very conveniently dismiss religious people as simply "backward" and in need of "eduction". It's a dangerous misunderstanding.

Also, I disagree with your characterization of the current situation being the result of "many centuries of crusades," it is simply ahistorical, to put it politely.
Quite frankly, this seems like the typical Western chauvinist mindset that tries to understand the rest of the world only in the context of the West.

The Islamic world had various empires, indeed, it was Islamic expansionism that provoked the the Crusades. The actual Crusades were a small part of that history, maybe 200 years, and in the end the Christian crusaders were beaten back. Various different Islamic Empires followed before we get to the modern times. Indeed, the history of Islam is one of various Caliphates sweeping across vast swaths of the world, erasing the local cultures and supplanting them with Arabization. Most of the people that we might call "Arab" aren't really Arab. It is similar to the case of a a person from France not being "Roman" although they still speak a Romantic language, albeit the Islamic conquests had an even greater impact on the conquered regions.

And they weren't "underdeveloped people". Again, this is to put it as politely as possible, completely ahistorical. And dripping of Western chauvinism.

I'm not talking about underdeveloped in ancient times. I'm talking about underdeveloped TODAY.

You cannot for one second honestly pretend that the ME hasn't been forcibly shoved back into the bronze age repeatedly through various acts of violence, mostly originating from western nations.

The middle east, today, is a collection mostly of bronze age shit holes, rife with poor education.

As it is, there are no well educated, economically advanced theocratic states because that is called "fascism" and fails quite quickly everywhere it is attempted usually due to a revolt, though with suffice ent access to technology can be maintained (see: PRC/CCP).

Regardless, it is about a combination of factors mostly surrounding cultures being stuck in the bronze age that drives this result.

 

[Trausti]

Killing people over religious images is barbaric. Christianity used to promote such atrocities but it doesn't any more. And those "Christians" who would do so if given the legal opportunity are simply incipient barbarians held back by a more civilized society.

It is time for some of Islam to move past this barbaric practice.

I hope all on this forum agree with this and not permit offense as an excuse for bad behavior.

 

[Trausti]

I think part of the issue is developmental. All the christian countries out there you might care to look at are well and truly "modern" in terms of basic education and economic buildout.

With islamic countries, the educational and economic technology level is usually much lower, on average, with much higher levels of theocratic involvement as well. There's not enough "herd immunity", formal secular education, to damp out the rage and cultural taboo of such art.

I mean, christians frequently get butthurt over "happy holidays", but we have been conditioned to react to religious disappointment in alternative ways to extents that mitigate the result from violence to mere complaint.

It is not problematic due to islam, more, religion in undereducated/undeveloped pools is problematic to freedom within the educated/developed pool. It's merely "accidental" that this happens to be largely Islam in the current instance.

That said, it's no accident; It is a result of many centuries of crusades. But rather it's not "islam" that caused this, and it is not unique to Islam. It would happen irrespective of what religion is held by underdeveloped people that were literally attacked back to the bronze age over the course of centuries

I disagree that it is about education/economic development, although a lack of those does not help. But they are hardly sufficient conditions for a secular society. It isn't hard to imagine an economically advanced, well-educate and yet theocratic state. Atheists, I think, very conveniently dismiss religious people as simply "backward" and in need of "eduction". It's a dangerous misunderstanding.

Also, I disagree with your characterization of the current situation being the result of "many centuries of crusades," it is simply ahistorical, to put it politely.
Quite frankly, this seems like the typical Western chauvinist mindset that tries to understand the rest of the world only in the context of the West.

The Islamic world had various empires, indeed, it was Islamic expansionism that provoked the the Crusades. The actual Crusades were a small part of that history, maybe 200 years, and in the end the Christian crusaders were beaten back. Various different Islamic Empires followed before we get to the modern times. Indeed, the history of Islam is one of various Caliphates sweeping across vast swaths of the world, erasing the local cultures and supplanting them with Arabization. Most of the people that we might call "Arab" aren't really Arab. It is similar to the case of a a person from France not being "Roman" although they still speak a Romantic language, albeit the Islamic conquests had an even greater impact on the conquered regions.

And they weren't "underdeveloped people". Again, this is to put it as politely as possible, completely ahistorical. And dripping of Western chauvinism.

I'm not talking about underdeveloped in ancient times. I'm talking about underdeveloped TODAY.

You cannot for one second honestly pretend that the ME hasn't been forcibly shoved back into the bronze age repeatedly through various acts of violence, mostly originating from western nations.

The middle east, today, is a collection mostly of bronze age shit holes, rife with poor education.

As it is, there are no well educated, economically advanced theocratic states because that is called "fascism" and fails quite quickly everywhere it is attempted usually due to a revolt, though with suffice ent access to technology can be maintained (see: PRC/CCP).

Regardless, it is about a combination of factors mostly surrounding cultures being stuck in the bronze age that drives this result.

Eh, South Korea went from medieval, to colony, to ruin, to world economic power in 60 years.

 

[barbos]

Korea was not medieval 60 years ago

 

[Trausti]

Korea was not medieval 60 years ago

Right. But the path from medieval to top world economy was about sixty years. Last Korean king out in 1910 / end of Joseon. The Japanese occupation till 1945. End of Korean War 1953. Global economy by the 1960s.

 

[barbos]

Plenty of oil money and extra shitty religion, that's what we have here.

 

[barbos]

3 more people murdered in France by what appears the same kind of attack. I suspect Turkey can now kiss goodbye to EU membership, not in this century for sure.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...n-knife-attack-at-french-church-idUSKBN27E17D

NICE, France (Reuters) - A knife-wielding attacker shouting “Allahu Akbar” beheaded a woman and killed two other people in a suspected terrorist incident at a church in the French city of Nice on Thursday, police and officials said.

...
And another attack, this time on police officers, it failed though.

Looks like coordinated terrorism.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Solution? More immigration!

People get mad at me for my views on Islam, but I'm consistent! Christianity is just as bad. Or worse. Christians threaten violence just as much as Islamists do when their views are mocked.

Well, that’s BS. Parker and Stone wrote a broadway musical mocking Mormons, and the Mormon Church put advertising in the playbills. Every country that executes for blasphemy is Muslim. Muslims can open mosques in predominantly Christian countries but new churches in muslim countries are mostly barred. (There are exceptions, of course.) The effort to equate the two religions is just unpersuasive. As an atheist, I am undoubtedly safer in a Christian country than a Muslim one.

The Mormons aren't really in a position to engage in such violence.

Look, however, at places like Africa--plenty of Christian violence there.

Islam actually engages in a lot more violence, though.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

But yes, trying to pretend like the Muslim world isn't uniquely problematic in this regard today, right now, is silly.

Basically, Islam is as violent as Christianity used to be.

 

[Arctish]

Basically, Islam is as violent as Christianity used to be.

Agree 100%

 

[bigfield]

Korea was not medieval 60 years ago

Right. But the path from medieval to top world economy was about sixty years. Last Korean king out in 1910 / end of Joseon. The Japanese occupation till 1945. End of Korean War 1953. Global economy by the 1960s.

Korea owes its economic miracle to USAID, which in turn was motivated by the Cold War. Basically, Korea chose the right development strategy (make a lot of stuff for export) and were patronised by an extremely wealthy ally that bought much of those export goods and provided aid. Korea's rapid transformation also required a military dictatorship in order to repress opposition to the government's policies.

It's difficult to reproduce those conditions in other countries. Firstly, the US stopped providing that kind of economic assistance decades ago. Nowadays, the US is pursuing trade agreements which aim to consolidate the US's share of global trade (TPP, TTIP). Secondly, military dictatorships don't have a tendency to pursue visionary economic reforms while simultaneously maintaining a highly effective secret police.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

It seems so odd, the prohibition of images of Mohammod. The point was to prevent idols becoming more important than the message... and yet somehow this prohibition has become an idol unto itself! Making some Muslims completely unaware of the stupidity of the actions they justify for the wrong allegedly committed.

Also, if you need anti-blasphemy laws, your god isn't too impressive. Makes me think of The Hulk, "Puny god".

 

[barbos]

It seems so odd, the prohibition of images of Mohammod. The point was to prevent idols becoming more important than the message... and yet somehow this prohibition has become an idol unto itself! Making some Muslims completely unaware of the stupidity of the actions they justify for the wrong allegedly committed.

Also, if you need anti-blasphemy laws, your god isn't too impressive. Makes me think of The Hulk, "Puny god".

True. But I suspect It is more than simple pictures, they are mad at insulting pictures.
Anyhow, the guy who murdered french teacher was a chechen "refugee" who was born in Moscow. So it is natural that all "prominent" chechens in Russia are blaming ..... Macron, calling him a #1 terrorist, warning french people In Russia that they will answer for Macron.

I know French like their caricatures to death, but Putin is in difficult position because he expressed support to terrorist #1.
Yeah, and Gérard Depardieu is a big friend of the Head of Chechen Republic.
It's a real mess. The only solution is for Macron to apologize, ban caricatures and probably convert to Islam.

But the biggest loser in this is UFC.

 

[barbos]

Now Quebec is under attack from religion of peace.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-54766208

 

[Jayjay]

Now Quebec is under attack from religion of peace.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-54766208

A man armed with a sword and in medieval clothing doesn't fit the usual MO of islamic terror. More like Dungeons & Dragons.

 

[barbos]

Now Quebec is under attack from religion of peace.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-54766208

A man armed with a sword and in medieval clothing doesn't fit the usual MO of islamic terror. More like Dungeons & Dragons.

True, could be Halloween gone horribly wrong. But I still put my money on religion o peace, considering it's french part of Canada.