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It'd be nice when adults stopped acting like toddlers

Yeah. You're absolutely right! They were perfectly peaceful until they saw this guy's car slow down to avoid harming them, turn to avoid them, and to go through an open area of the road. How dare he drive down the road in a car??! They had to run to it, jump on it, and hit it with their fists and a flagpole! That doesn't make them violent at all.
They were peaceful up to that point.

More importantly, in your zeal to place the entire blame on the protesters you continue to ignore the facts that
1) there are no reports of any other vehicle being vandalized, and
2) there are no reports that any of the injured people were engaged in vandalizing the car
In fact, you have ignored responding to those facts while you trolley track on your defense of your inaccurate characterizations.
And he should have stopped immediately for the police as the angry mob was chasing his car, instead of going another block or so where it was safe. Yeah, that makes sense....


From the OP article
“Police attempted to stop driver of vehicle who initially refused to stop. He stopped about a block away from the incident and was taken into custody.”
So, the police were there, and this person refused to obey them initially.
 
They were peaceful up to that point.

I don't disagree with you on that. I just don't think it relevant. Are you saying that the driver driving through an unobstructed section of road and turning away from the protesters in finding that open section of road, but still driving down the road, somehow justifies them getting violent?

1) there are no reports of any other vehicle being vandalized

This guy's car was being struck with fists and a flag pole. Why do you insist it relevant whether other people's cars were also attacked?

2) there are no reports that any of the injured people were engaged in vandalizing the car

It is quite likely that they were vandalizing his car or encouraging others to do so, since they were right there beside it and had run up to it. Again, he didn't drive towards them; they ran to his car.

“Police attempted to stop driver of vehicle who initially refused to stop. He stopped about a block away from the incident and was taken into custody.”
So, the police were there, and this person refused to obey them initially.

Would you have stopped right away for the police as an angry mob who had just struck your car with fists and flagpole was chasing after you? I wouldn't have. The guy did stop for the police after he had driven far enough for him to think it safe to do so. It isn't like he went on some wild city wide police chase.
 
The driver has been charged as shown below:

http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/...cle_b6dc87f1-0177-5b12-98bf-f7e00a598332.html

I checked the video. It seems the car started to move on at the point were someone hit the roof or threw something over the roof as the mob were surrounding it.


As stated the charges are reported as:

Mark Colao, 59, was charged Thursday with a felony count of resisting arrest by fleeing and two misdemeanor charges of leaving the scene of an accident and operating a vehicle in a careless and imprudent manner.


It would be interesting to see his defence. It could entail perceiving a danger to his person, being imprisoned in his own vehicle.
The police should make better attempts to keep protesters from blocking roads unless the demos have a permit in advance.
 
Indeed. The police fucked up here. They should have either cleared the roadway of the protesters or blockaded the roadway from motor vehicle traffic.
 
If protesters had no permit to block the street, they should be charged. But the driver should be charged for what he did regardless. He drove up to the crowd when it was obvious the road was blocked and other cars were not going through. He could have turned around, but he decided to risk some lives to get where he wanted a few minutes quicker.
 
I don't disagree with you on that. I just don't think it relevant. Are you saying that the driver driving through an unobstructed section of road and turning away from the protesters in finding that open section of road, but still driving down the road, somehow justifies them getting violent?
I am saying they were not violent until this guy showed up. They were not violent towards anyone else. That suggests this was not some random act of assholishness.

This guy's car was being struck with fists and a flag pole. Why do you insist it relevant whether other people's cars were also attacked?
Because it is suggestive that this guy was not some randomly chosen target but that he did something to set this assholes off.


It is quite likely that they were vandalizing his car or encouraging others to do so, since they were right there beside it and had run up to it.
You are literally making stuff up. But are you really saying it is okay to run over people who may be encouraging others to vandalize your car? Wow.
Again, he didn't drive towards them; they ran to his car.
You repeat that as if it is relevant. No one was running towards his car when he decided to run into people.

Would you have stopped right away for the police as an angry mob who had just struck your car with fists and flagpole was chasing after you? I wouldn't have.
I would not drive into a mob like a jackass. Nor would I flip them the bird right before I decided to run someone over.

The guy did stop for the police after he had driven far enough for him to think it safe to do so. It isn't like he went on some wild city wide police chase.
As long as it was not some wild city ride while disobeying an order to stop, it is okay.
 
1) There is little question they were violent towards this particular car.
Violent? Inappropriate more likely.

2) The lack of violence against others suggests perhaps it's something to do with the car or occupants--this car was perceived as the enemy so they attacked it.
Attacked?! Jebus! Anyone care to defend that claim by showing pics of the car's damage?

You don't consider beating with a flag pole to be violent?? That's a club. Swung at a window it could be serious for the occupants.
 
The driver has been charged as shown below:

http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/...cle_b6dc87f1-0177-5b12-98bf-f7e00a598332.html

I checked the video. It seems the car started to move on at the point were someone hit the roof or threw something over the roof as the mob were surrounding it.


As stated the charges are reported as:

Mark Colao, 59, was charged Thursday with a felony count of resisting arrest by fleeing and two misdemeanor charges of leaving the scene of an accident and operating a vehicle in a careless and imprudent manner.


It would be interesting to see his defence. It could entail perceiving a danger to his person, being imprisoned in his own vehicle.
The police should make better attempts to keep protesters from blocking roads unless the demos have a permit in advance.

There's only one possible defense here--self defense. That video is nowhere near clear enough to see what level of threat the protesters posed.

I think the previous non-violence is irrelevant, this guy did the horrible sin of trying to thwart their blockade.

- - - Updated - - -

If protesters had no permit to block the street, they should be charged. But the driver should be charged for what he did regardless. He drove up to the crowd when it was obvious the road was blocked and other cars were not going through. He could have turned around, but he decided to risk some lives to get where he wanted a few minutes quicker.

He drove up to a clear piece of road--no wrongdoing there. He was set upon by protesters trying to stop him from thwarting their blockade. It comes down to how threatening they were in setting on him.
 
They were peaceful up to that point.

More importantly, in your zeal to place the entire blame on the protesters you continue to ignore the facts that
1) there are no reports of any other vehicle being vandalized, and
2) there are no reports that any of the injured people were engaged in vandalizing the car
In fact, you have ignored responding to those facts while you trolley track on your defense of your inaccurate characterizations.
And he should have stopped immediately for the police as the angry mob was chasing his car, instead of going another block or so where it was safe. Yeah, that makes sense....


From the OP article
“Police attempted to stop driver of vehicle who initially refused to stop. He stopped about a block away from the incident and was taken into custody.”
So, the police were there, and this person refused to obey them initially.


Looking at this raises questions?
The Yahoo article states:

https://www.yahoo.com/news/trans-lives-matters-car-drives-131300425.html


Police said that on Wednesday evening, protesters had walked from a Transgender Memorial to an intersection and blocked traffic in all directions.
“A vehicle approached, stopped, honked its horn and attempted to drive around the protesters,” police said in a statement.
“The protesters surrounded the vehicle and began striking it with their hands and a flag pole. Several protesters also kicked and jumped on top of the vehicle. The driver of the vehicle...proceeded to drive away when three protesters...fell from the vehicle.”
The statement added: “Police attempted to stop driver of vehicle who initially refused to stop. He stopped about a block away from the incident and was taken into custody.”

But the St Louis Post-Dispatch quoted a witness identified as Keith Rose, who said the driver had his middle finger raised before accelerating through the group
.

The report said the witness, who was in the group of protesters, said the driver stopped for a few seconds “before accelerating gradually and driving into the group”.

As I understand Mark Colao is charged as follows:

Resisting arrest by fleeing, a felony;
leaving the scene of an accident while driving in a careless and reckless (imprudent) manner; Misdemeano
r

Taking into account a likely defence the court would need to determine:

1 Did he reasonably perceive that there was an immediate danger of harm to him? He could also argue that he had real fear of imminent harm though it was objectively not founded on reason.

The crowd surrounding the car and what appears to be someone striking the car could be added to defence brief. Others were jumping on the car, but will are these circumstances sufficient to convince the court that he perceived an actual and imminent danger.

2 Waiting for help: Could he have waited for the police? A defence that he could not could be based on point 1

3 Level of force: Did he use an imperfect self-defence that was disproportionate to the perceived level of threat? The courts would no doubt try to determine this from the video, the police reports and witness accounts.

4 If the crowd was illegally on the road, he does not have a right to push through them using a vehicle as a weapon. For a perceived threat and not using disproportionate force he may well have that right.

Initially he failed to stop for police (for his defence would not use refused to) but did subsequently do so just around the block.
Could he counter sue for obstruction and imprisonment in his car but that would be hard to prove.

In addition it’s not clear at this point how the laws on obstruction stand in St Louis but it seems there were some proposals for legislation being proposed in this article some years ago.

I’m not sure if any of this was ever passed into law.

http://www.kansascity.com/news/politics-government/article137031768.html
Missouri protesters who block roadways would face tougher penalties under bill


I'm sure any experts in US law can add and or correct the above.
 
Violent? Inappropriate more likely.

2) The lack of violence against others suggests perhaps it's something to do with the car or occupants--this car was perceived as the enemy so they attacked it.
Attacked?! Jebus! Anyone care to defend that claim by showing pics of the car's damage?

You don't consider beating with a flag pole to be violent?? That's a club. Swung at a window it could be serious for the occupants.

Are you blind? Show me a pic of the damage!
 
“A vehicle approached, stopped, honked its horn and attempted to drive around the protesters,” police said in a statement.

The photo doesn't look like going "around" but instead "through."

This was quoting the police report.
However it is clear he was moving in a straight line
As he was stopped 9 secs few people started to stand on his fender, which I think could be used in the defence (perceived threat).

However even though it is a short video it will require a lot of careful viewing over again.

I quoted what is purported to be what the police stated. The video itself also shows the car seems to remain in a reasonably straight line until he turned off after going through the crowd.

http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/... or disproportionate to any perceived threat.
 
Violent? Inappropriate more likely.

2) The lack of violence against others suggests perhaps it's something to do with the car or occupants--this car was perceived as the enemy so they attacked it.
Attacked?! Jebus! Anyone care to defend that claim by showing pics of the car's damage?

You don't consider beating with a flag pole to be violent?? That's a club. Swung at a window it could be serious for the occupants.

Are you blind? Show me a pic of the damage!

Show me a pic of the car not damaged.
 
Violent? Inappropriate more likely.

2) The lack of violence against others suggests perhaps it's something to do with the car or occupants--this car was perceived as the enemy so they attacked it.
Attacked?! Jebus! Anyone care to defend that claim by showing pics of the car's damage?

You don't consider beating with a flag pole to be violent?? That's a club. Swung at a window it could be serious for the occupants.

Are you blind? Show me a pic of the damage!

Show me a pic of the car not damaged.
For it to be vandalism, evidence needs to be submitted, that shows damage. Nobody has to demonstrate non-vandalism.

So you have nothing then.
 
It's ok for me to block your car and jump on it with my friends, striking it with our fists and a flag pole, so long as the damage to the car isn't too severe? I will keep that in mind.
 
It's ok for me to block your car and jump on it with my friends, striking it with our fists and a flag pole, so long as the damage to the car isn't too severe? I will keep that in mind.
Please point to any post in this thread that even intimates that it is ok. If you cannot, stop with the straw men.
 
To check for personal bias for where the "blame" lies, it is always good to switch the identities of those involved. Assume that it was a peaceful demonstration by skinheads (instead of trannies) before they attacked the car and that the driver was a tranny (instead of a white cisgen male). If that changes anyone's mind about who is at "blame" then their bias is showing.
 
It's ok for me to block your car and jump on it with my friends, striking it with our fists and a flag pole, so long as the damage to the car isn't too severe? I will keep that in mind.
Please point to any post in this thread that even intimates that it is ok. If you cannot, stop with the straw men.

Not necessarily. It leads possible case construction by his lawyer, where the driver genuinely perceived a danger to himself and took defensive action that was not disproportionate to the situation. If there is damage, the driver would have to present this of course. However in genuinely perceiving that his car was being vandalized where he could not check because of his perceived fears for his safety but feared damage to property could fortify the case.
 
It's ok for me to block your car and jump on it with my friends, striking it with our fists and a flag pole, so long as the damage to the car isn't too severe? I will keep that in mind.
For someone who posted so quickly in the thread, you clearly didn't read the OP. So do you even bother?
 
To check for personal bias for where the "blame" lies, it is always good to switch the identities of those involved. Assume that it was a peaceful demonstration by skinheads (instead of trannies) before they attacked the car and that the driver was a tranny (instead of a white cisgen male). If that changes anyone's mind about who is at "blame" then their bias is showing.

It's like some group of people in here are tone deaf... to text
 
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