It'd be nice when adults stopped acting like toddlers

[TV and credit cards]

The implication of a middle finger is the guy is not scared and his act was one of aggression... "Fuck you, I'm driving through you."

This is the only mistake the driver made. This says he was not in fear for his life.
That he could have stopped, backed up, turned around, or was actually surrounded should not be assumed from one picture.
Dumb-ass shouldn't have given the finger.


If I was surrounded by white supremacists, I would have been in such a state I would have likely driven forward, panicked, backed over their neck tats, and then driven forward again.
But I wouldn't have given the finger prior to.

 

[Derec]

She was also slashed.

Was she? By whom? From what I have read is that she stabbed her neighbor.
Squabble over barbecue pit fire led to neighbor's stabbing, fatal encounter with St. Louis police
But no, it's the fault of the police, because reasons.

In court documents filed in St. Louis Circuit Court, police say Herring had accused a downstairs neighbor that morning of starting a fire on a back deck. Herring then stabbed that neighbor after Herring’s partner provided the kitchen knife, police say.
[..]
Herring was still at the apartment building when officers arrived. When officers tried to arrest Herring, Herring used the knife to cut an officer’s arm, police say. That’s when the injured officer and another officer fired their weapons at Herring.

No word about Herring being slashed. And it would not really matter if she was.

And you would know they are attacking you vs just damaging your car because....?

Damaging the car is a form of attack.
Why were these violent "protesters" not arrested?

 

[whichphilosophy]

Ya, I don't really fault the driver here. He tried to go around him and they surrounded his car and jumped on top of it. I'd hit the gas to get away from them in that situation as well.

I hope that the protesters gave him their insurance information so he's not stuck with the cost of cleaning any of their blood off of his car.

I think motorists who are suddenly obstructed on a road which they are entitled to drive on and go about their business would reasonably want to push through but I think a few things may be taken into consideration.

Did he perceive any personal danger (whether or not there was any).
The act can be perceived as imprisoning someone in their own vehicle.
What level of force did the driver use? Did he drive slowly enough for them to get out the way?
What laws are applicable to obstruction of roads and highways,or to obstruction in general.

There seems to be a lot of anarchist style protests where I think obstructing the rights of others to travel freely from one point to another is of no concern to the protesters. Protesting is a right but this should be done not at detriment of others, and with permits where the authorities can close roads and divert traffic.

There were some moves afoot earlier this to criminalize the actions of protesters who block roads. Perhaps the bill is still in discussion

http://www.missourinet.com/2017/03/...would-criminalize-protesters-who-block-roads/

Marshall presented his proposal before the House Crime Prevention and Public Safety Committee. It allows for misdemeanor charges against anyone who deliberately obstructs traffic by walking, standing, sitting, lying or placing an object on a roadway.

The crime would elevate to a class E felony if the person commits the offense a second time or if the action took place on an interstate highway. Such crimes carry a maximum penalty of 4 years in prison and a $10,000 fine.

The measure makes any gathering of more than one person on a street, highway of interstate highway an illegal assembly if the intent is to block traffic. This act would be classified as a class D felony, with a maximum punishment of 7 years in prison and a $10,000 fines.

House Democrat Bruce Franks of St. Louis sits on the committee which heard the proposal. Franks is a community activist who took part in protests which blocked interstate highways in St. Louis after the shooting of Michael Brown.

During the hearing, he noted that he would have committed a felony under the measure. Franks contends protests are meant to make people feel uncomfortable.

“To make people uncomfortable, to let people know that’s it’s not going to be business as usual, and actually make your voice heard” said Franks. He thinks the measure would punish protesters who would dare to make others feel uncomfortable.

“As long as it’s not making everybody else uncomfortable, it’s O.K. to protest. But the moment when you’re making everybody uncomfortable, or you don’t necessarily see the measurable outcome of said protest, then it’s unlawful or it’s against what’s right.”

Democrat committee member Stacy Newman of Richmond Heights took issue with some wording in the proposal. She said, as written, it could implicate government employees on the job. She mentioned a well-publicized incident during an exchange with bill sponsor Marshall.

“As we saw in New Jersey when there was a decision to close a bridge that did everything that you just said in terms of consequence” said Newman. Marshall responded “Oh, I see, you’re referencing (New Jersey) Governor (Chris) Christie”.

Traffic became severely clogged after workers were instructed to set up cones on a busy New Jersey bridge in 2013. An ensuing controversy has dogged Christie since.

 

[Toni]

When my four year old doesn't get things her way, she sometimes gets angry and yells.

Meanwhile with adults in St. Louis:

Everyone seems to think they are entitled to be an asshole.

The protesters were actually attacking the car? They actually leaped onto and and were smashing at it with a flag pole?

What should the guy in the car have done? Was there room for him to back up and go the other way? But they were literally standing on his car, right?

Seems to me he did what he had to do to save himself from an angry mob.

If the situation was reversed and trans-haters were jumping on a car with the driver in it and smashing it with a flag pole, would anybody's answer be different as to if the driver did wrong?

Other drivers took side streets to avoid the march. This guy did not. He made a deliberate choice to drive into a group of protesters peacefully marching, and then to accelerate into the protesters. Whether or not he flipped them off before or after accelerating to hit them is immaterial: he had a choice to avoid a peaceful march and instead chose to drive into a crowd of protesters. It's hard to assign him any moral high ground. And then he fled police, after striking a number of protesters.

http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/...cle_dc8385bb-c978-5de2-8102-6737c5606894.html

 

[Jolly_Penguin]

Other drivers took side streets to avoid the march. This guy did not. He made a deliberate choice to drive into a group of protesters peacefully marching, and then to accelerate into the protesters. Whether or not he flipped them off before or after accelerating to hit them is immaterial: he had a choice to avoid a peaceful march and instead chose to drive into a crowd of protesters. It's hard to assign him any moral high ground. And then he fled police, after striking a number of protesters.

http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/m...7c5606894.html

Slamming fists against somebody's car and hitting it with flag pole does not equate to peacefully marching.

Also, those photos and video you link to show plenty of other cars driving by and around the protesters, and show a mass of protesters converging on the car, not the car driving up to a mass of peaceful protesters.

As for stopping for the the police, your photos also show people running after a car (his?). Would YOU want to stop right where this mob could run up to you? He drove another block or so and then stopped. Its not like there was some wild city spanning police chase. He probably wanted to make sure he was safe before he stopped.

The only error the driver made was flipping them off, and I can hardly fault him for that given the circumstances. Its like saying if a black guy happens to stumble upon a KKK rally and some KKK guys run at him, he's wrong to flip them off before running away from them.

 

[dismal]

The guy in the black t-shirt is seen hitting the hood of the Mercedes.

That's a Nazi car so you gotta punch it.

You know who else drove a Mercedes? Hitler.

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

Keep Firing, Assholes!

Some few days ago while riding my bike to work I was confronted by an idiot motorist. I heard a horn behind me and stopped at which point she began to rant through the window at me.

Within two seconds I realized the person was an idiot so just turned away and started riding again. The idiot pursued me and continued to yell through the window for about a block. Then sped past me like idiots do. Would have been nice to see her clock a utility pole but no such luck.

Now if said person had struck my bike the situation would have escalated and maybe I'd have reached through the window and dragged her out. But she was just an idiot I could easily avoid by using my intellect and avoiding anything serious.

It astounds me sometimes that there are so many intellectually deprived idiot members of my species, and I am eternally grateful for the natural gifts of observation and intellect.

Perhaps at this time those immortal words from Spaceballs are appropriate, "Keep firing, Assholes!"

 

[laughing dog]

Slamming fists against somebody's car and hitting it with flag pole does not equate to peacefully marching.

Come on, tt was a peaceful march up to that point. If you are going to insist on blaming the victims, at least adhere to the facts.

Also, those photos and video you link to show plenty of other cars driving by and around the protesters, and show a mass of protesters converging on the car, not the car driving up to a mass of peaceful protesters.

And the fact no other vehicle had any reported problems whatsoever, and the no one else choose to drive through people in harmful manner does not even give you pause to stop entirely blaming the victims? Wow.

 

[laughing dog]

Was she? By whom? From what I have read is that she stabbed her neighbor.

Obviously you did not read the OP article which reports

Ms Herring had been shot the day before, after police responded to a domestic disturbance when they found her cut across the face, arms and chest.

.

But no, it's the fault of the police, because reasons.

It is the responsibility of the police - they shot and killed her. Duh. We don't know the entire story (and probably never will).

No word about Herring being slashed. And it would not really matter if she was.

Of course it would. It might indicate she was in shock.

Damaging the car is a form of attack.

On a car. Not necessarily on a person. Duh.

Why were these violent "protesters" not arrested?

Call the St. Louis police and ask them.

 

[Playball40]

No, you think anatomy is important, not biology. Because otherwise you would put the biology of the brain ahead of anatomy assumptions

The cop who was slashed was treated for his injuries. His wound is independent verification.

Again, you are taking the report by the police as accurate even though there is a reported witness whose account significantly differs from the report from the police.

This photo shows protesters surround the car. The guy in the black t-shirt is seen hitting the hood of the Mercedes.

So yes, I find that account much more credible.

At this juncture in time, jumping to conclusions is premature. IMO, the main point that many people feel they are entitled to be an asshole. That includes those who feel they can engage in vandalism to vehicles and those who feel they can ram people with their vehicle for no good reason.

I do not think people should ram people with their vehicle for no good reason. When you are surrounded by an angry mob attacking you you have a good reason.

- - - Updated - - -

I think adoption proves that one doesn't have to be a biological parent to be considered a parent of a child. Therefore, a transgender person can be a parent, with the word "mother" or "father" applying to their gender identity. Is this controversial? Or are you just being bigoted against transgender people?

I am not being bigoted, I just feel biology is important.

 

[Derec]

Obviously you did not read the OP article which reports

Ms Herring had been shot the day before, after police responded to a domestic disturbance when they found her cut across the face, arms and chest.

.
I think the Yahoo article confuses Herring and her victim, the neighbor she attacked with a knife and who had similar wounds, according to the STL Post Dispatch article I posted above.

The neighbor was stabbed several times, and he was able to push Herring and Thompson out of his apartment and lock the door. He had been on the telephone with his girlfriend during at least part of the attack, police say. His girlfriend called 911.
He suffered cuts to his face, hands and body. His left lung was also punctured.
Officers who arrived at the residence on Ridge found the stabbing victim, bleeding from stab wounds; he told police the name of the person who stabbed him, police say.

I think Yahoo writer thought "victim" referred to Herring, when it actually referred to the neighbor Herring attacked.

It is the responsibility of the police - they shot and killed her. Duh. We don't know the entire story (and probably never will).

Indeed. It is the responsibility of the police to engage suspects and to use deadly force if necessary - like if they are attacked with a deadly weapon.

Of course it would. It might indicate she was in shock.

A police officer should still not have to endure a knife attack.
And again, the claim Herring was stabbed is most likely based on Yahoo author's confusion of facts. I have seen no other claims of Herring having any stab or slash wounds of of anybody else using a knife as a weapon. Herring's girlfriend(?) was arrested for arming Herring with a knife btw.

On a car. Not necessarily on a person. Duh.

If the person is in the car that's a distinction without a difference.

Call the St. Louis police and ask them.

That was a rhetorical question. It is pretty clear why the rioters were not arrested - political correctness.

 

[laughing dog]

I think the Yahoo article confuses Herring and her victim,...

Or it is possible that the St. Louis Post Dispatch article has it wrong. There is no need to jump to conclusions.

Indeed. It is the responsibility of the police to engage suspects and to use deadly force if necessary - like if they are attacked with a deadly weapon.

T assumes the reported police story is the whole and accurate story - something history indicates is not a good assumption in these situations.

A police officer should still not have to endure a knife attack.

That does not require an automatic reaction of deadly force. It would depend on the nature of the weapon, the attack and the situation.

If the person is in the car that's a distinction without a difference.

Perhaps to a sociopath, but not to normal people.

That was a rhetorical question. It is pretty clear why the rioters were not arrested - political correctness.

A more reasonable explanation is that the officers who arrived on the scene did not know who was rioting at that time. Or do you feel the police should just mass incarcerate people and then sort out who belongs in custody and who does not?

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Slamming fists against somebody's car and hitting it with flag pole does not equate to peacefully marching.

Exactly. If they're using a flagpole against your car it's reasonable to fear they might use it against the occupants of the car.

As for stopping for the the police, your photos also show people running after a car (his?). Would YOU want to stop right where this mob could run up to you? He drove another block or so and then stopped. Its not like there was some wild city spanning police chase. He probably wanted to make sure he was safe before he stopped.

Of course--I wouldn't have stopped even a block away--no place in sight of the group that had attacked.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Come on, tt was a peaceful march up to that point. If you are going to insist on blaming the victims, at least adhere to the facts.

Also, those photos and video you link to show plenty of other cars driving by and around the protesters, and show a mass of protesters converging on the car, not the car driving up to a mass of peaceful protesters.

And the fact no other vehicle had any reported problems whatsoever, and the no one else choose to drive through people in harmful manner does not even give you pause to stop entirely blaming the victims? Wow.

1) There is little question they were violent towards this particular car.

2) The lack of violence against others suggests perhaps it's something to do with the car or occupants--this car was perceived as the enemy so they attacked it.

 

[Jolly_Penguin]

Come on, tt was a peaceful march up to that point. If you are going to insist on blaming the victims, at least adhere to the facts.

You're right. They were violently striking the guy's car with fists and a flag pole before he took any action, but because they had been peaceful earlier in the day that somehow changes something.....

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Come on, tt was a peaceful march up to that point. If you are going to insist on blaming the victims, at least adhere to the facts.
And the fact no other vehicle had any reported problems whatsoever, and the no one else choose to drive through people in harmful manner does not even give you pause to stop entirely blaming the victims? Wow.

1) There is little question they were violent towards this particular car.

Violent? Inappropriate more likely.

2) The lack of violence against others suggests perhaps it's something to do with the car or occupants--this car was perceived as the enemy so they attacked it.

Attacked?! Jebus! Anyone care to defend that claim by showing pics of the car's damage?

- - - Updated - - -

Come on, tt was a peaceful march up to that point. If you are going to insist on blaming the victims, at least adhere to the facts.

You're right. They were violently striking the guy's car with fists and a flag pole before he took any action, but because they had been peaceful earlier in the day that somehow changes something.....

He's so lucky to be alive by such violence being thrusted upon him.

 

[laughing dog]

Come on, tt was a peaceful march up to that point. If you are going to insist on blaming the victims, at least adhere to the facts.

You're right. They were violently striking the guy's car with fists and a flag pole before he took any action, but because they had been peaceful earlier in the day that somehow changes something.....

"Earlier in the day" as in 2 seconds before he decided to try to drive through the street? Why are you so intent on ignoring the facts?

They were peaceful up to the point where he choose to drive amongst them - contrary to your characterization.

In your zeal to exclusively blame the victims, has it occurred to you that you don't even know if anyone this asswipe choose to run into had damaged his car? Or do you think it was okay for him to just run into (or over) anyone around?

 

[Derec]

Or it is possible that the St. Louis Post Dispatch article has it wrong.

Except that other articles say the same thing while what the Yahoo article claims is only claimed by that one Yahoo article.
St Louis Public Radio:

According to an incident report in which Herring is not named, at about 8 a.m. Tuesday, two police officers responded to a call in the Academy neighborhood that someone had been stabbed on the 5200 block of Ridge Avenue. A 30-year old man who had been cut by a knife told police his attacker was inside the building, the report said.
When the two officers entered the building, a person with a knife confronted them, cutting one of the officers, police said. Both officers responded by shooting and killing the person. Some initial media reports picked up the police narrative and identified Herring as a man.

Huffington Post, in an article very favorable to the dead stabbist.

According to acting St. Louis Police Chief Larry O’Toole, Herring, who lived in a two-family flat, “severely cut” a neighbor Tuesday morning. The victim has not been identified.
When officers responded to the scene, Herring took a kitchen knife “and slashed at the officers, slicing the one officer on the arm,” O’Toole said at a Tuesday press conference.

So yeah, the Yahoo writer screwed up. Give it up, dog, it's a hill you can't hold. So why die on it?

There is no need to jump to conclusions.

This is not jumping to conclusions. This is arriving at conclusions at a leisurely pace.

T assumes the reported police story is the whole and accurate story - something history indicates is not a good assumption in these situations.

We do not have a credible alternate story.

That does not require an automatic reaction of deadly force. It would depend on the nature of the weapon, the attack and the situation.

Nature of the weapon was a knife. The attacker already seriously wounded a man with said knife and managed to injure the police officer.
I would say the situation definitely warrants deadly force, and you really have to be a police hater to think otherwise.

Perhaps to a sociopath, but not to normal people.

On the contrary, I think people who feel they are entitled to block traffic, and enforce that blockade with violence, are the sociopaths.

A more reasonable explanation is that the officers who arrived on the scene did not know who was rioting at that time. Or do you feel the police should just mass incarcerate people and then sort out who belongs in custody and who does not?

Then why did they arrest the driver?

 

[Jolly_Penguin]

You're right. They were violently striking the guy's car with fists and a flag pole before he took any action, but because they had been peaceful earlier in the day that somehow changes something.....

"Earlier in the day" as in 2 seconds before he decided to try to drive through the street? Why are you so intent on ignoring the facts?

Yeah. You're absolutely right! They were perfectly peaceful until they saw this guy's car slow down to avoid harming them, turn to avoid them, and to go through an open area of the road. How dare he drive down the road in a car??! They had to run to it, jump on it, and hit it with their fists and a flagpole! That doesn't make them violent at all.

And he should have stopped immediately for the police as the angry mob was chasing his car, instead of going another block or so where it was safe. Yeah, that makes sense....

 

[laughing dog]

I would say the situation definitely warrants deadly force, and you really have to be a police hater to think otherwise.

It has nothing to do with hating police and everything to do with the nature and context of the situation.

Then why did they arrest the driver?

Because they knew who the driver was and what he allegedly done.