Jeb Bush fustigates Pope on global warming

[untermensche]

It is about what the Pope was talking about.

This is not a thread discussing the merit of Popes.

And this Pope was talking about actually trying to preserve the environment for the future. Not stopping the earthquakes, although there is some evidence that fracking increasing their likelihood.

Things Jeb is not interested in. Return on the investments of the right people is what interests him.

Either the Pope is connected to the big man upstairs (and I don't mean Papa George Bush here) or he's a delusional guy in a funny hat.

He can be what many people are, delusional in some areas and rational in others.

There is nothing irrational about talk of man-made climate change. It is accepted science.

 

[ronburgundy]

This is almost as bad as atheists acting like we should give a crap about the Pope.

That has zero relevance. As rational thinkers, we should care about science in general and the science of climate change in particular. We should support people when they speak out in favor of rational, science-based policy. And if they have influence over people who are not going to listen to reason and science anyway, but do listen to authority and religious appeals, then we should support their efforts to at least make these irrational flocks less dangerous to the rest of us, even if they are not becoming more scientifically literate as a result.

Also, the issue highlights the dangerous continued anti-science nature of Jeb and his entire political party. It shows that his real interest is corporate profits to such an extreme that he is willing to go against what he has claimed were his core principles his whole life. It shows their blatant dishonesty, hypocrisy, and "by any means neccessary" approach to gaining power to advance corporatism, namely that they will at the same time appeal to religion and religious authority and encourage people to rely on it for political and scientific issues, then claim the same religious authority has no place speaking about such issues, even though that authority in this particular case is more scientifically literate than Jeb and 99% of Republican office holders or voters.

Both atheists and theists should care about this, not for what it says about the Pope, but what it shows clearly about the extreme corporatism, lack of principles, and dishonest tactics of Jeb and all other self-labeled religious conservative politicians or groups that are criticizing the Pope for this.

 

[dismal]

Either the Pope is connected to the big man upstairs (and I don't mean Papa George Bush here) or he's a delusional guy in a funny hat.

He can be what many people are, delusional in some areas and rational in others.

There is nothing irrational about talk of man-made climate change. It is accepted science.

If the argument is that it is "accepted science" why would any sane person invoke the Pope as some sort of authority about it?

 

[Horatio Parker]

He can be what many people are, delusional in some areas and rational in others.

There is nothing irrational about talk of man-made climate change. It is accepted science.

If the argument is that it is "accepted science" why would any sane person invoke the Pope as some sort of authority about it?

Maybe as a sign of how far beyond the pale the deniers are; even the Catholic Church knows better.

 

[dismal]

If the argument is that it is "accepted science" why would any sane person invoke the Pope as some sort of authority about it?

Maybe as a sign of how far beyond the pale the deniers are; even the Catholic Church knows better.

You mean like you go to an atheist website and post this and everyone naturally goes:

Hmm, well, the Pope's always been so right about everything else I guess I should listen now.

 

[Horatio Parker]

Maybe as a sign of how far beyond the pale the deniers are; even the Catholic Church knows better.

You mean like you go to an atheist website and post this and everyone naturally goes:

Hmm, well, the Pope's always been so right about everything else I guess I should listen now.

No, like even the faith based community can see how out of touch climate deniers are.

 

[dismal]

You mean like you go to an atheist website and post this and everyone naturally goes:

Hmm, well, the Pope's always been so right about everything else I guess I should listen now.

No, like even the faith based community can see how out of touch climate deniers are.

Right, and on abortion too. Someone tell Nancy Pelosi she's got that wrong.

 

[J842P]

Maybe as a sign of how far beyond the pale the deniers are; even the Catholic Church knows better.

You mean like you go to an atheist website and post this and everyone naturally goes:

Hmm, well, the Pope's always been so right about everything else I guess I should listen now.

Is that really how you see those threads?

 

[dismal]

You mean like you go to an atheist website and post this and everyone naturally goes:

Hmm, well, the Pope's always been so right about everything else I guess I should listen now.

Is that really how you see those threads?

I see these threads as rather pathetic and misguided attempts to invoke the authority of the Pope in an audience of people who don't give a shit about the Pope by posters who don't give a shit about the Pope.

And in this case also there is a side of the usual ZMFOG REpubluicans!!!!@!!#

 

[Ford]

Is that really how you see those threads?

I see these threads as rather pathetic and misguided attempts to invoke the authority of the Pope in an audience of people who don't give a shit about the Pope by posters who don't give a shit about the Pope.

And in this case also there is a side of the usual ZMFOG REpubluicans!!!!@!!#

And that's a rather pathetic and shallow interpretation.

Nobody is trying to "invoke the authority of the Pope" as if the reality of climate change hinges upon a proclamation from the Vatican.

Yet a proclamation from the Vatican is important. Whether we give a shit about him or not, the fact is that Francis is the leader of over a billion Catholics worldwide. Quite a lot of people DO give a shit about what he says, quite a lot of people DO give a shit about climate change, and this encyclical apparently means that the not-inconsiderable resources of the Papacy can be brought to bear on what is a growing global problem.

As it stands, north of 95% of the world's scientists in climate-related fields are behind the effort to combat this problem. Their influence - while important - pales in comparison to the influence that the Holy See can muster. In fact, the American Republican party's proclamations against global warming are comparative chump change if the Pope decides to throw the full weight of his office behind the opposing (and scientifically sound) view.


Yes, the audience here might not give a shit about the Pope, but a much wider audience does, and if even a fraction of that audience actually gets on board with fighting climate change, that's hundreds of millions of people who could make quite a big difference.

 

[Horatio Parker]

No, like even the faith based community can see how out of touch climate deniers are.

Right, and on abortion too. Someone tell Nancy Pelosi she's got that wrong.

Squirm all you like, but the science remains.

 

[untermensche]

He can be what many people are, delusional in some areas and rational in others.

There is nothing irrational about talk of man-made climate change. It is accepted science.

If the argument is that it is "accepted science" why would any sane person invoke the Pope as some sort of authority about it?

Who did?

It is refreshing to hear at least one person with global recognition and influence speak the truth.

So many are corrupted liars to their core.

Like the Bushes.

 

[dismal]

If the argument is that it is "accepted science" why would any sane person invoke the Pope as some sort of authority about it?

Who did?

It is refreshing to hear at least one person with global recognition and influence speak the truth.

So many are corrupted liars to their core.

Like the Bushes.

Again, around here the Pope is a guy in a funny hat who talks to his imaginary sky friend. Not a "person with global recognition and influence", at least among the rational.

 

[untermensche]

Who did?

It is refreshing to hear at least one person with global recognition and influence speak the truth.

So many are corrupted liars to their core.

Like the Bushes.

Again, around here the Pope is a guy in a funny hat who talks to his imaginary sky friend. Not a "person with global recognition and influence", at least among the rational.

You have a very narrow view of the world.

The religious delusion is not like an ordinary delusion. It is usually gained by indoctrination and it is socially accepted.

It is insane to base policy on religious doctrine.

It is nice the Pope at least here wants policy based on science and rationality and sanity.

 

[ronburgundy]

Is that really how you see those threads?

I see these threads as rather pathetic and misguided attempts to invoke the authority of the Pope in an audience of people who don't give a shit about the Pope by posters who don't give a shit about the Pope.

I already laid waste to your sad strawman efforts to distract from what this issue illustrates about the Republicans.

And in this case also there is a side of the usual ZMFOG REpubluicans!!!!@!!#

Yes, people are pointing out how their actions undeniably illustrate their extreme level of depraved dishonesty, hypocrisy, and extremist anti-science corporatism. It also reveals that it they are willing to attack the legitimacy of religion to inform politics (which is a cornerstone of their own political rhetoric) in order to protect their profits from climate change regulations, then they will be willing to do anything policy-wise in office no matter it harm to the safety and well-being of the public.
But this is not a "side" point of the thread, it is the only point. No one here has suggested that we should listen to the Pope because he is the Pope. IT is actually Jeb and the Republicans that usually say that, which is why their current 180 comments from that are so revealing about them.

 

[arkirk]

I see these threads as rather pathetic and misguided attempts to invoke the authority of the Pope in an audience of people who don't give a shit about the Pope by posters who don't give a shit about the Pope.

I already laid waste to your sad strawman efforts to distract from what this issue illustrates about the Republicans.

And in this case also there is a side of the usual ZMFOG REpubluicans!!!!@!!#

Yes, people are pointing out how their actions undeniably illustrate their extreme level of depraved dishonesty, hypocrisy, and extremist anti-science corporatism. It also reveals that it they are willing to attack the legitimacy of religion to inform politics (which is a cornerstone of their own political rhetoric) in order to protect their profits from climate change regulations, then they will be willing to do anything policy-wise in office no matter it harm to the safety and well-being of the public.
But this is not a "side" point of the thread, it is the only point. No one here has suggested that we should listen to the Pope because he is the Pope. IT is actually Jeb and the Republicans that usually say that, which is why their current 180 comments from that are so revealing about them.

Jeb boy said it loud and clear...telling the Pope he should keep his nose out of reality. The problem this time is for the Republicans. The Pope has science on his side. Now that is truly unusual.

 

[Sarpedon]

Can't we be pleased by the novelty of a Pope using his power for good instead of evil?

Am I allowed to be delighted when someone I expect to be bad turns out to be pretty ok?

 

[bilby]

Again, around here the Pope is a guy in a funny hat who talks to his imaginary sky friend. Not a "person with global recognition and influence", at least among the rational.

Nevertheless, he still has influence and recognition. He has no authority over me, but given the size of his following, I still need to be aware of what kinds of things he is promoting or denigrating - because I interact with his fan club on a regular basis. The same is true for any world leader - the Presidents of China, or of the US, likewise have no authority over me as a non-citizen; but their policies can still have an impact on my life.

Can't we be pleased by the novelty of a Pope using his power for good instead of evil?

Am I allowed to be delighted when someone I expect to be bad turns out to be pretty ok?

Sure, you are allowed; but in this case, I think you are mistaken. There is little evidence that the Pope uses rationality as the primary means to reach his decisions, so that he agrees with you on this one topic is more a matter of luck than it is any indication that he is displaying good judgement.

A stopped clock is right twice a day; A religious dogmatist can reach any conclusion, given that he need not base his conclusions in logic nor reason. Such dogmatists are bound to be right once in a while, just by pure luck, but that doesn't mean that they are somehow better than their less fortunate predecessors.