Jim Jones, Marxist, Atheist

[bilby]

Bill Mauldin said, "Nothing makes you a pacifist faster than joining the infantry."

I observe that eating large quantities of kale apparently also has that effect.

 

[Keith&Co.]

"Pacifism is objectively pro-fascist. This is elementary common sense. If you hamper the war effort of one side, you automatically help out that of the other." - George Orwell

Well given the global situation in 1942, when he said that, he was undoubtedly correct. .

Not really. Pacifism is not sabotage.
War is expensive and harmful, with lasting effects on even the winners. Wishing or calling for or hoping for some resolution to conflict that doesn't involve carnage is not the same as actually hampering the war effort, nor is it a hope for the other side to win.

As Mauldin observed, plenty of GIs were hoping for an end to the war, to all wars, even while following their orders to support the war effort. They'd have loved it if someone had figured out a diplomatic solution before they landed at Normandy or had to get up out of the trenches and slog forward towards that machine gun nest.

It never hurts to ask if we've considered all the alternatives before we send 19 year olds or nukes in.

 

[Starman]

But back to the murderous Marxist-atheist, Jim Jones.
Was he "rational"? "Intelligent"?
These are hallmark claims of atheists who really aren't remotely as confident
of themselves/yourselves as they/you claim.



/



3. I'm obsessed with him too!

 

[Keith&Co.]

But back to the murderous Marxist-atheist, Jim Jones.

You don't wanna go back to your bullshit quote?

Or to your military service?

Just gonna doubledown on your bigotry again?
Wow. What a surprise.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

But back to the murderous Marxist-atheist, Jim Jones.
Was he "rational"? "Intelligent"?
These are hallmark claims of atheists who really aren't remotely as confident
of themselves/yourselves as they/you claim.

View attachment 3076

Nobody is anything just because they claim to be something else. I could say I'm an atheist. That doesn't mean I'm rational. I could say I'm a christian, that doesn't mean I'm righteous. I could say I'm a Jane Austian, but that doesn't mean I'm prim and proper.

Whatever Jones was, isn't shaped by his beliefs, it was shaped by his actions.

3. I'm obsessed with him too!

I'm reminded of an actually funny joke that parallels that. It is about a child of an atheist who moves to a different place and is attending a Catholic school. The child comes back and tells his father about the trinity. The father gets to his knees and looks his son in the face and tells him "Look, there is only one god and we don't believe in him."

 

[Keith&Co.]

reminded of an actually funny joke that parallels that. It is about a child of an atheist who moves to a different place and is attending a Catholic school. The child comes back and tells his father about the trinity. The father gets to his knees and looks his son in the face and tells him "Look, there is only one god and we don't believe in him."

I heard it as a kid from a family of Jewish atheists who attended his first year of public education. After they read a Greek myth in school he goes to the library and looks up other pantheons.
He goes home and tells his dad about gods of war, gods of love, gods of judgment and gods of creation.

HIS father stands up and says "there is only one god. The god of Moses and Abraham, the god of Israel, who made Adam and Woman in Eden and who burned Sodom and Gomorrah." He picks up his paper and sit down, saying, 'And THAT is the god we don't believe in."

 

[bigfield]

View attachment 3076

Looking at the figures above, one might think that the number of atheists is dwindling. However, the chart doesn't show what all the ex-Christians, ex-Muslims etc. have converted to.

What interests me, and what should worry church leaders, is that irreligion is increasing, worldwide.

http://www.quora.com/What-is-the-growth-rate-of-the-atheist-population-in-the-world-right-now

I blame the Internet: damn those alternative points of view!

 

[Loren Pechtel]

View attachment 3076

Looking at the figures above, one might think that the number of atheists is dwindling. However, the chart doesn't show what all the ex-Christians, ex-Muslims etc. have converted to.

What interests me, and what should worry church leaders, is that irreligion is increasing, worldwide.

http://www.quora.com/What-is-the-growth-rate-of-the-atheist-population-in-the-world-right-now

I blame the Internet: damn those alternative points of view!

In other words, a lot of those atheists who are no longer atheists are now nothing in particular.

 

[bigfield]

Looking at the figures above, one might think that the number of atheists is dwindling. However, the chart doesn't show what all the ex-Christians, ex-Muslims etc. have converted to.

What interests me, and what should worry church leaders, is that irreligion is increasing, worldwide.

http://www.quora.com/What-is-the-growth-rate-of-the-atheist-population-in-the-world-right-now

I blame the Internet: damn those alternative points of view!

In other words, a lot of those atheists who are no longer atheists are now nothing in particular.

There's an analysis of the ex-atheists in the RationalWiki article on this study:

But what about all those atheists who have converted to something else? As we've stated, Pew does not supply the figures for the conversion of atheists, but fortunately for us, CARA does. It is because initial atheist numbers are so small that this alleged 70% loss doesn't mean all that much, especially when we further explore the figures. According to Pew, just .5% of the population was raised atheist, which is about 1.5 million people. According to CARA's analysis of Pew's data, of those 1.5 million, 30% are now affiliated with a Protestant denomination, 10% are Catholic, 2% are Jewish, 1% are Mormon, and 1% are Pagan[6]. So that's approximately half a million childhood atheists who have since become Protestant, compared to several million ex-Protestant atheists, and around 150,000 ex-atheist Catholics, compared to 13 million non-religious ex-Catholics.

You can crunch the numbers yourself if you want; the Pew data is linked in the article.

http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Pew_Forum's_U.S._Religious_Landscape_Survey

 

[Starman]

I'm reminded of an actually funny joke that parallels that. It is about a child of an atheist who moves to a different place and is attending a Catholic school. The child comes back and tells his father about the trinity. The father gets to his knees and looks his son in the face and tells him "Look, there is only one god and we don't believe in him."

Excellent. Thank you.

Is there a single club for Non-Believers in Easter Bunny?
How about a club for Non-Tooth Fairy Believers? No?
Any We Don't Believe in Santa Claus clubs?

How is it that only atheists invoke fantasies that have no parallel to the worldwide cult of We Hate God, so YOU SHUT UP!

Deeply intellectual, no? Rather like Alan Turing turning atheist when his boyfriend of homosexual fantasy died of disease.
Like the case of Isaac Asimov turning atheist when he flunked a science test after praying to God to help him pass it.
Asimov was such a rational freethinker that he feared flying even in commercial aviation.
Oh, and his son turned out to be a pedophile. Asimov had no time to be a father. He was too busy replying to his sycophantic
audience to bother with wife or son.

 

[bigfield]

Is there a single club for Non-Believers in Easter Bunny?
How about a club for Non-Tooth Fairy Believers? No?
Any We Don't Believe in Santa Claus clubs?

The Brights

How is it that only atheists invoke fantasies that have no parallel to the worldwide cult of We Hate God, so YOU SHUT UP!

Atheists invoke what?

Deeply intellectual, no? Rather like Alan Turing turning atheist when his boyfriend of homosexual fantasy died of disease.

Turing was motivated by feelings of loss to examine his beliefs about what is was to be human, exploring various fields of science in hopes of coming to a satisfactory answer. In the process he developed a materialistic worldview, which entails atheism. Whether his reasoning was sound or not is not something we can know.

What is certain is that Alan Turing, the father of computer science, was an intellectual powerhouse.

Like the case of Isaac Asimov turning atheist when he flunked a science test after praying to God to help him pass it.
Asimov was such a rational freethinker that he feared flying even in commercial aviation.

Even champions of rationality have phobias. But at least planes can and do crash, so that fear does have some basis in reality.

Fear of hell, on the other hand, does not.

Oh, and his son turned out to be a pedophile. Asimov had no time to be a father. He was too busy replying to his sycophantic
audience to bother with wife or son.

If David Asimov had been a Catholic, he could have joined the priesthood, where he could have enjoyed protection from the law and molested alter boys with impunity. So yes, in this case atheism was a bad call.

 

[Keith&Co.]

Asimov was such a rational freethinker that he feared flying even in commercial aviation.

Actually, he flew twice, in spite of his phobia. Both times were part of his military service.
Do you have any military service, Starlord?

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

I'm reminded of an actually funny joke that parallels that. It is about a child of an atheist who moves to a different place and is attending a Catholic school. The child comes back and tells his father about the trinity. The father gets to his knees and looks his son in the face and tells him "Look, there is only one god and we don't believe in him."

Excellent. Thank you.

Is there a single club for Non-Believers in Easter Bunny?
How about a club for Non-Tooth Fairy Believers? No?
Any We Don't Believe in Santa Claus clubs?

How is it that only atheists invoke fantasies that have no parallel to the worldwide cult of We Hate God, so YOU SHUT UP!

That is a broad brush strawman.

Deeply intellectual, no? Rather like Alan Turing turning atheist when his boyfriend of homosexual fantasy died of disease.

Huh?

Like the case of Isaac Asimov turning atheist when he flunked a science test after praying to God to help him pass it.

What?

Asimov was such a rational freethinker that he feared flying even in commercial aviation.
Oh, and his son turned out to be a pedophile. Asimov had no time to be a father. He was too busy replying to his sycophantic
audience to bother with wife or son.

Broad brushes on sale at Home Depot?

 

[Frikki]

Is it just me or is Starman just the best? He brings something to IIDB that has been sorely lacking.

 

[Canard DuJour]

Is it just me or is Starman just the best? He brings something to IIDB that has been sorely lacking.

Whenever a Starman type shows up, I imagine with glee how much the more sensible conservative and free-market types here must love him

Let 'em rip I say!

 

[Keith&Co.]

Is it just me or is Starman just the best? He brings something to IIDB that has been sorely lacking.

Yeah, but it could probably be treated with Epsom salts...

 

[credoconsolans]

Admirer of Chairman Mao, Jim Jones was responsible for the largest mass murder/suicide in history, 909 people.

909? The largest in history? Um, haven't you heard of the mass murder/suicide at Masada? 960 people were killed.

(Personally, I'd say the largest mass suicide would have to be a toss-up between the Great Leap Forward and Operation Barbarossa -- roughly thirty million apiece. But that might be stretching the definition a tad.)

I thought I read recently that there is no evidence that this actually happened. That's it's just a story.

 

[Bomb#20]

909? The largest in history? Um, haven't you heard of the mass murder/suicide at Masada? 960 people were killed.

(Personally, I'd say the largest mass suicide would have to be a toss-up between the Great Leap Forward and Operation Barbarossa -- roughly thirty million apiece. But that might be stretching the definition a tad.)

I thought I read recently that there is no evidence that this actually happened. That's it's just a story.

Hard to know one way or the other after 2000 years. If we assume Josephus lied or was believing popular fiction, well, there are less famous but better documented mass murder/suicides. About a thousand Japanese died in a murder/suicide on Saipan when it fell to the Americans. (And that's not even counting the four-thousand-odd troops who mounted a suicidal banzai attack instead of surrendering when their military position became hopeless.) About a thousand Germans killed themselves at Demmin when it was overrun by the Soviets, but that number is guesswork since the East German government tried to hush it up; estimates range from 700 to 1200.

Also, 24000 Hindu women allegedly committed suicide at Jaisalmer in 1304 when the city fell to a Muslim army; I couldn't say how reliable that story is.