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Journalist shares the story of her son's unlawful arrest

That's why I asked about specific court cases. Because an exemption to the search is where there is no reasonableness to expectation of privacy. I would make the argument someone selling a piece of property has now given up the reasonableness of privacy.

There's no case law that I'm aware of, but it breaks down pretty simply if you look at a couple of things.

In a sting operation the seller is offering the goods for examination, and it would be absurd for them not to, therefore the police officer (posing as a buyer) can find out what they need, such as whether the goods are counterfeit, based on that examination. If, in the case of a computer, the seller handed them the laptop to examine but hadn't logged into the system then they would only be able to externally examine the device. Compromising the system, if a general consumer did it without permission would be a crime, and is outside of the purview of the examination of goods. Had he volunteered to give them access that's a different story. Apart from that, unless the deal has been executed the seller retains ownership and the buyer does not have the rights of ownership.

To take a different tack, imagine party X had agreed to purchase a house, put forth his earnest money, escrowed the down payment, and all paperwork was in order for the sale to go through. No closing had occurred yet and the seller (party Y) was still living in the house. Party X can't agree to let police search the house while Y still resides there even though there's no barrier to the sale because party Y still has an expectation of privacy in the house. Likewise, there's still an expectation of privacy on the computer system unless he expressly gave permission to examine it beyond the physical examination.

I've seen pen-testers get successfully sued because they received specific permissions to look for vulnerabilities, found a vulnerability, and pressed further into the defect beyond the contracted parameters to see what data was compromised as a result of the defect.

Buying a car doesn't give me permission to rip out the rocker panels.

I agree with your analysis, but I'm still not sure why we are off on this 4th Amendment debate to begin with. There is nothing in the story I saw that indicates the seller objected to the buyer's inspection of the laptop.

The objection is to being handcuffed and having a taser pointed at him, and the question is whether there was reasonable suspicion to merit it.

Taylor said when he showed up, the buyer inserted a portable hard drive into the computer. Then he said that out of nowhere, someone came behind him yelling, "Put your hands behind your back."

As he was handcuffed and questioned, Taylor said he felt something pressed on his back. That’s when he said he saw a yellow taser.

The mother makes an ex post objection to "unreasonable search and seizure" but I think she is just throwing legal terms she has heard on TV at the wall.

I would agree, however, that if a seller had said "no you may not put a portable hard drive in the computer" and the potential buyer did anyway this would be a breach of the seller's property rights.
 
I don't see that the cops did anything illegal in this case, but they didn't have to be such dicks about it.
 
I don't see that the cops did anything illegal in this case, but they didn't have to be such dicks about it.

Up to a point yes, but the taser and handcuffs were wrong.

They didn't tase the guy, they pointed a taser at him. As far as handcuffs go, there should be a procedure that at a certain time you handcuff a suspect. The question here is was there enough evidence for this guy to be considered "a suspect".

Trying to sell a laptop is not an inherently suspicious activity.
 
In the real world the cops aren't going to be 100% correct in who they detain.

If the police were 100% correct we would have no need of trials.

It would seem to me they should have more of a case than:

1) Someone stole a laptop
2) This is a laptop

before they start arresting/detaining people for selling things.

Maybe they did. These sorts of stories are notorious for omitted facts.

I think #2 is: This is a laptop that appears the same as the stolen one, posted for sale soon after the theft of the laptop.

Unfortunately, in the real world you'll sometimes match the key characteristics of the suspect and get erroneously stopped by the police.
 
Unless there's a contract stating otherwise not until the deal has been executed - that is both the money and property have changed hands. If he handed the laptop to the buyer (for a pre-purchase examination) but had not received payment for it then it's still his property and he's the one who would consent to the search.

That's why I asked about specific court cases. Because an exemption to the search is where there is no reasonableness to expectation of privacy. I would make the argument someone selling a piece of property has now given up the reasonableness of privacy.

My thought, also--he's planning to transfer it to another person he does not know. That other person is going to get a look at whatever you had on there--you have voluntarily put it in the public eye. If you put something in the public eye you have given up the right of privacy regarding it.
 
It would seem to me they should have more of a case than:

1) Someone stole a laptop
2) This is a laptop

before they start arresting/detaining people for selling things.

Maybe they did. These sorts of stories are notorious for omitted facts.

I think #2 is: This is a laptop that appears the same as the stolen one, posted for sale soon after the theft of the laptop.

Unfortunately, in the real world you'll sometimes match the key characteristics of the suspect and get erroneously stopped by the police.

Not enough to justify the actions, in my opinion. Unless it is a very rare form of laptop.

If it had something identifying like, say, a prominent unicorn leaping over a rainbow sticker that matched the stolen laptop then I'd be OK with the actions of the police.

The facts available so far suggest may justify police involvement, but probably just politely asking a few questions.
 
Up to a point yes, but the taser and handcuffs were wrong.

They didn't tase the guy, they pointed a taser at him. As far as handcuffs go, there should be a procedure that at a certain time you handcuff a suspect. The question here is was there enough evidence for this guy to be considered "a suspect".

Trying to sell a laptop is not an inherently suspicious activity.

Why does a suspect need to automatically be handcuffed at any time without any evidence of him being a threat/danger?
 
I don't see that the cops did anything illegal in this case, but they didn't have to be such dicks about it.

Up to a point yes, but the taser and handcuffs were wrong.

It would have been wrong if they actually used the taser but they didn't. It was merely pointed. The cops were acting to avoid trouble.
 
Not necessarily. For example, probable cause isn't needed to detain a suspect, reasonable suspicion is. Reasonable suspicion requires the officer to be able to articulate with particularity facts that would lead him/her to believe that a person was up to criminal activity. "Probable cause" on the other hand is a horribly slippery term for which there is no single definition or standard that the Supreme Court has ever settled on. For example, the definition of reasonable suspicion is largely clear and provides a standard, but it has also been used as the definition for probable cause. And in a case like this, there may be federal national securities laws in place that allow for something like this (computer fraud across state lines maybe?), but I don't know.

I've read up on it more since I posted. From a fourth amendment point of view (which applies here), there is no differentiation between "detained" and "arrested". The term in the constitution is "seizure," which covers both. The most recent decision from the SCOTUS that directly addresses it would appear to be "Michigan v. Chesternut, 486 U.S. 567 (1988)" where they were careful to address if the suspect had been "seized" and rather than "arrested."

The separation into "detention" and "arrest" is an entirely artificial division that seems to be created only to imply that a person does not have Fourth Amendment rights when they in fact do.

That's fine. But there are different degrees of arrest. I've bolded and enlarged the term "custodial arrest" below, so if you want to skip all this other stuff and just see that, it's there.

Now, because we don't know the barest facts of the situation other than allegations made, there's no real way to tell what happened. Again, I do not support the cops barging into someone's house and doing what the article alleges. However, there are more circumstances under which the arrest/detainment/etc. was lawful than otherwise.

I promised myself I would try to be less mumbo-jumbo with the legal stuff, but let me try and clear this up. According to the few things we know and were alleged, there was a seizure of the person, and a search of the computer. This triggers, among other things, the search incident to arrest doctrine.

The Supreme Court long has recognized that the Fourth Amendment authorizes a police officer to conduct a warrantless search incident to a lawful arrest.

Two considerations justify such a search:
1. The need to protect the arresting officer and others from physical harm; and
2. The need to prevent the concealment or destruction of evidence.

These justifications generally place certain limits upon a search incident to an arrest. The Supreme Court held in Chimel v. California, that upon lawfully arresting an individual, the police may conduct a search of the arrestee’s person and the area "within his immediate control," meaning the area from within which he might gain possession of a weapon or destructible evidence.

However, the Court subsequently explained, “If there is no possibility that an arrestee could reach into the area that law enforcement officers seek to search, both justifications for the search-incident-to-arrest exception [to the warrant requirement] are absent and the rule does not apply.”

So here we encounter the first problem with the article. We don't know the circumstances of the arrest. We don't know:

1. If there was a search warrant, and if so, what kind. This is especially problematic when it comes to the search of phone or other mobile device. In Riley v. California, the Supreme Court held in a 9-0 vote that police/agents must have a search warrant before seizing and subsequently conducting a forensic search of the contents of such a device. That case did not necessarily cover laptops, but cellphones. However, according to the language the Court used in that case, e.g. that the search of a mobile device can be more intrusive than even the most thorough scouring of one's own home, it can be safely construed that the cops/agents need a warrant to conduct a search of a laptop.

2. Where did this search and seizure take place? It makes a big difference as we have different expectations of privacy depending on where we are and the magnitude of the alleged violation will vary with that. For example, coupled with the knock and announce rule(s), if the agents barged through completely unannounced into the home, then it's a really serious violation unless there were exigent circumstances such as destruction of evidence (they'd likely need more in this case). If however, the alleged victim answered the door, the agents identified themselves, and he allowed them to come in, then no violation would have occurred. The search of the computer would likely have still required a warrant unless there's evidence that he waived that right. Or, if the alleged victim was driving in his car, sitting at a park, etc. then the rules change to allow more liberal conduct on the part of the government.

3. What was the demeanor of the suspect at the time of the incident? For example, was he cooperative, combative, threatening, etc.? Could the agents articulate reasons as to why he needed to be handcuffed? We simply do not know.

In conducting a search incident to an arrest, police officers may use a “reasonable” amount of force to overcome the arrestee’s active resistance or to prevent the destruction or concealment of evidence, Sanders v. State, 543 S.E.2d 452 (because defendant's arrest was lawful, the officer was authorized to discover or seize any item that was unlawful to possess). So in this case, if the arrest was lawful, the cops/agents were operating within the law.


In Schmerber v. California, 384 U.S. 757 (1966), the Supreme Court held that searches made in an “improper manner” violate the Fourth Amendment. In that case however, the Court concluded that under the circumstances, the non-consensual withdrawal of a blood sample from an arrestee by a physician constituted only a minor intrusion into the arrestee’s body and therefore did not violate the Fourth Amendment. So in the case at hand, the temporary arrest of the suspect may have been a lot less intrusive than a blood test, which again points to lawful conduct by the agents.

The Fourth Amendment, however, prohibits the use of “excessive” force. Nevertheless, police officers may use a considerable amount of force before it will be deemed to be “excessive” and hence “unreasonable, United States v. Harrison, 432 F.2d 1328, 1330 (D.C. Cir. 1970) (police officer did not use unreasonable force when he grabbed arrestee by throat to prevent him from swallowing envelope).

So, for the purposes of a seizure, you can call it an arrest, but it doesn't necessarily implicate any wrongdoing on the part of the government. And I should have been more clear about that when responding to your post. However, there is a big difference between a temporary arrest and custodial arrest. A “custodial arrest” involves “the taking of a suspect into custody and transporting him to the police station.” United States v. Robinson, 414 U.S. 218, 235, 94 S. Ct. 467, 38 L. Ed. 2d 427 (1973). See also United States v. Garcia, 376 F.3d 648, 651 (7th Cir. 2004) (“A ‘full custodial arrest’ involves a trip to the stationhouse for booking and incarceration.”)

Upon custodial arrest the full protections of the 4th, 5th, 6th, the 8th Amendments are triggered, and that's where abuses of Constitutional rights will often take place.

In this case, while the 4th is implicated, the suspect was never taken into custody. So assuming for the moment that the government was 100% wrong in everything they did in this case, the question for the victim is now about remedy. What damages did he suffer? Unfortunately, the most likely remedy is an internal affairs investigation. That's because to sue under an issue arising under the federal Constitution, one must have standing to sue, which means that a person must be sufficiently affected by the matter at hand, and there must be a case or controversy that can be resolved by legal action.There are three requirements for Article III standing:

1. Injury in fact, which means an invasion of a legally protected interest that is concrete and particularized, and actual or imminent. So assuming things went down exactly the way the article claims, we have #1 covered because the search and seizure were unlawful, and therefore a violation of the 4th AM.

2. A causal relationship between the injury and the challenged conduct, which means that the injury fairly can be traced to the challenged action of the defendant... Now, what injury beyond the 4th Amendment violations did the victim suffer? Were there broken bones, stitches, the unlawful seizure of his property, etc.? The article in the OP mentions nothing of the kind. It says the agents uncuffed him and left.

3. A likelihood that the injury will be redressed by a favorable decision, which means that there's a prospect of obtaining relief from the injury as a result of a favorable ruling... So, what will the Court tell the agents/agency who committed the wrong? "Don't do it again"?

So unless there's facts indicating more, and even if the agents acted improperly, it's difficult to see how the victim will recover.

The government is allowed to make mistakes. They can be assholes about it suffer little, if any consequences for it, but a simple temporary arrest based on a mistake where no one's person was harmed nor their property seized for more than for a short while will likely not be deemed actionable other than again, an internal affairs investigation. And good luck to the victim with that. That certainly doesn't make it right, but again, without knowing more, it's hard to interpret the situation any other way than what's described above.
 
I've read up on it more since I posted. From a fourth amendment point of view (which applies here), there is no differentiation between "detained" and "arrested". The term in the constitution is "seizure," which covers both. The most recent decision from the SCOTUS that directly addresses it would appear to be "Michigan v. Chesternut, 486 U.S. 567 (1988)" where they were careful to address if the suspect had been "seized" and rather than "arrested."

The separation into "detention" and "arrest" is an entirely artificial division that seems to be created only to imply that a person does not have Fourth Amendment rights when they in fact do.

That's fine. But there are different degrees of arrest. I've bolded and enlarged the term "custodial arrest" below, so if you want to skip all this other stuff and just see that, it's there.

Now, because we don't know the barest facts of the situation other than allegations made, there's no real way to tell what happened. Again, I do not support the cops barging into someone's house and doing what the article alleges. However, there are more circumstances under which the arrest/detainment/etc. was lawful than otherwise.

In my original post I said that we didn't know enough to determine if arrest was lawful, just that it had occurred from a Fourth Amendment point of view if he was indeed cuffed and a taser had been drawn. We really have no disagreement that I can see.

This seems to be a good guide on "detainment" versus "arrest" seizures and "accidental arrests." As cuffing and drawing a taser is "more force than is reasonably part of an investigative detention" to check the serial number (or whatever) of a laptop to see if it was stolen, I can't imagine any court would find that he was not arrested (legally or otherwise) if that did indeed occur.

I probably overstated "detained" and "arrested" being entirely artificial, but saying "you are not under arrest" has no value except to imply that the person being seized has less rights than they really do.
 
They didn't tase the guy, they pointed a taser at him. As far as handcuffs go, there should be a procedure that at a certain time you handcuff a suspect. The question here is was there enough evidence for this guy to be considered "a suspect".

Trying to sell a laptop is not an inherently suspicious activity.

Why does a suspect need to automatically be handcuffed at any time without any evidence of him being a threat/danger?

Just because someone has not yet provided evidence of being a danger doesn't mean they aren't. It's a protocol that protects everyone involved. It's also not that big of a deal.
 
Why does a suspect need to automatically be handcuffed at any time without any evidence of him being a threat/danger?

Just because someone has not yet provided evidence of being a danger doesn't mean they aren't. It's a protocol that protects everyone involved. It's also not that big of a deal.

They can argue the merits in court - generally this isn't done unless the person is under arrest or is acting belligerent during a detention. That said, the tazer in the back is way over the line. He's lucky they didn't shoot him preemptively (I mean he could have been planning to run)
 
1. If there was a search warrant, and if so, what kind. This is especially problematic when it comes to the search of phone or other mobile device. In Riley v. California, the Supreme Court held in a 9-0 vote that police/agents must have a search warrant before seizing and subsequently conducting a forensic search of the contents of such a device. That case did not necessarily cover laptops, but cellphones. However, according to the language the Court used in that case, e.g. that the search of a mobile device can be more intrusive than even the most thorough scouring of one's own home, it can be safely construed that the cops/agents need a warrant to conduct a search of a laptop.

Do we even have a search here? The cops were looking to see if the machine was the stolen one, not an examination of the data on the machine.

Since externally the machines are identical (except for a serial number--if the owner even knew it) the only way to see this is to look at what's on the drive.
 
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