Juan de Oñate - New Mexican Shot - Umm... what now?

[Jimmy Higgins]

In our ever expanding knowledge of history, apparently a person was shot in New Mexico yesterday as people tried to take down a statue of Juan de Oñate. I know, I know... who the fuck is that and why is there a statue to him?

It gets odder as he died in 1626... which is roughly 6 years after the Pilgrims landed in Cape Cod, I mean Marshfield... I mean Plymouth.... Plimoth. The absolute luck of landing at a place with a Plantation already! So we are early 1600's so that means American settlements were kind of hugging the Atlantic Coast at the time... so why is there a statue of a guy who died in 1626, in New Mexico.

Well... he was a Spaniard of sorts and was born in New Spain (currently known as Mexico). Yeah, it keeps getting better. He was tasked with exploring their new territory because no western power had exploited it yet, so it was up for grabs!

Well, stuff happens when you are exploring your new territory, like people already on there aren't happy you are on it. Long story short, because we are Americans, we don't have time for long stories... we get a massacre. 24 guys who survived got a foot cut off. I know, right... starting to see why we have a statue of him.

So anyway, he was exiled from the area now known as New Mexico (no one has original names it seems) in 1614. So that is why they made a statue for him... and why El Paso tried to in 1997 for whatever fucking reason. (Apparently because he was one of the first Europeans (not European) to explore the area, apparently we are out of Heroes in the US).

So anyway, a guy in New Mexico was shot while in a crowd trying to take this guy's statue down.

 

[Derec]

So are all historical statues going to have to come down as long as they are not acceptable to the "wokesters". Basically, if the person depicted is not sufficiently brown, they gotta go.

 

[Trausti]

The Cultural Revolution comes for all.

 

[laughing dog]

Oh noes, now the war on white men has extended to statutes!!!!

 

[Politesse]

In our ever expanding knowledge of history, apparently a person was shot in New Mexico yesterday as people tried to take down a statue of Juan de Oñate. I know, I know... who the fuck is that and why is there a statue to him?

It gets odder as he died in 1626... which is roughly 6 years after the Pilgrims landed in Cape Cod, I mean Marshfield... I mean Plymouth.... Plimoth. The absolute luck of landing at a place with a Plantation already! So we are early 1600's so that means American settlements were kind of hugging the Atlantic Coast at the time... so why is there a statue of a guy who died in 1626, in New Mexico.

Well... he was a Spaniard of sorts and was born in New Spain (currently known as Mexico). Yeah, it keeps getting better. He was tasked with exploring their new territory because no western power had exploited it yet, so it was up for grabs!

Well, stuff happens when you are exploring your new territory, like people already on there aren't happy you are on it. Long story short, because we are Americans, we don't have time for long stories... we get a massacre. 24 guys who survived got a foot cut off. I know, right... starting to see why we have a statue of him.

So anyway, he was exiled from the area now known as New Mexico (no one has original names it seems) in 1614. So that is why they made a statue for him... and why El Paso tried to in 1997 for whatever fucking reason. (Apparently because he was one of the first Europeans (not European) to explore the area, apparently we are out of Heroes in the US).

So anyway, a guy in New Mexico was shot while in a crowd trying to take this guy's statue down.

Oh, people from New Mexico definitely know who Juan de Onate was. The amputations were just the post-war reprisals, at least 800 people died in the siege of Acoma, out of a population of a few thousand, and the survivors were enslaved. When we say "banished", that's by King Phillip himself, and specifically as a punishment for his cruelty to the citizens of New Mexico. Like Columbus and Cortez, Juan de Onate is only respected or admired in the present; at the time he was alive, everyone thought he was a monster.

This situation is very much like the Confederate statues, in that his legacy is used as a shibboleth for either racist or anti-racist attitudes toward the Pueblos. No one even pretends that race relations in the Southwest are in a good state, they are very clearly not.

 

[Gun Nut]

So are all historical statues going to have to come down as long as they are not acceptable to the "wokesters". Basically, if the person depicted is not sufficiently brown, they gotta go.

Historical statues belong in historical museums. statues displayed in the open public must represent something of public interest. Public interest changes, but history does not. We must embrace and learn from our history. That is literally what museums are for. if you want to learn, go to one. Public parks are for various public use. If you want your dog to chase a ball, go to one. People don't usually, and certainly not exclusively, use parks to learn history.
I have another opinion on memorials... a placard or even a statue at a spot... a physical location that a historically significant event occurred, can be treated differently, in my opinion.

 

[horhangi]

So are all historical statues going to have to come down as long as they are not acceptable to the "wokesters". Basically, if the person depicted is not sufficiently brown, they gotta go.

Historical statues belong in historical museums. statues displayed in the open public must represent something of public interest. Public interest changes, but history does not. We must embrace and learn from our history. That is literally what museums are for. if you want to learn, go to one. Public parks are for various public use. If you want your dog to chase a ball, go to one. People don't usually, and certainly not exclusively, use parks to learn history.
I have another opinion on memorials... a placard or even a statue at a spot... a physical location that a historically significant event occurred, can be treated differently, in my opinion.

The statue was outside of a museum, seems an appropriate place.

 

[barbos]

Oh, people from New Mexico definitely know who Juan de Onate was. The amputations were just the post-war reprisals, at least 800 people died in the siege of Acoma, out of a population of a few thousand, and the survivors were enslaved. When we say "banished", that's by King Phillip himself, and specifically as a punishment for his cruelty to the citizens of New Mexico. Like Columbus and Cortez, Juan de Onate is only respected or admired in the present; at the time he was alive, everyone thought he was a monster.
.

So we should expect statues of Hitler to appear soon (400 years from now)?

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

So are all historical statues going to have to come down as long as they are not acceptable to the "wokesters". Basically, if the person depicted is not sufficiently brown, they gotta go.

Not sufficiently brown? Not remotely American whose actions in the area that wasn't American territory for over two hundred years, and exiled from the location where his statue is.

Why this guy has a statue to even start with makes absolutely no sense!

 

[Politesse]

Oh, people from New Mexico definitely know who Juan de Onate was. The amputations were just the post-war reprisals, at least 800 people died in the siege of Acoma, out of a population of a few thousand, and the survivors were enslaved. When we say "banished", that's by King Phillip himself, and specifically as a punishment for his cruelty to the citizens of New Mexico. Like Columbus and Cortez, Juan de Onate is only respected or admired in the present; at the time he was alive, everyone thought he was a monster.
.

So we should expect statues of Hitler to appear soon (400 years from now)?

If his ideological descendants manage to establish a Fourth Reich in the same location, sure.

 

[Politesse]

So are all historical statues going to have to come down as long as they are not acceptable to the "wokesters". Basically, if the person depicted is not sufficiently brown, they gotta go.

How do you explain the fact that statues of white people who weren't involved in genocide or slave trading haven't come under any scrutiny whatsoever?

 

[laughing dog]

So are all historical statues going to have to come down as long as they are not acceptable to the "wokesters". Basically, if the person depicted is not sufficiently brown, they gotta go.

How do you explain the fact that statues of white people who weren't involved in genocide or slave trading haven't come under any scrutiny whatsoever?

Facts just get into the way.

 

[Valjean]

In our ever expanding knowledge of history, apparently a person was shot in New Mexico yesterday as people tried to take down a statue of Juan de Oñate. I know, I know... who the fuck is that and why is there a statue to him?

It gets odder as he died in 1626... which is roughly 6 years after the Pilgrims landed in Cape Cod, I mean Marshfield... I mean Plymouth.... Plimoth. The absolute luck of landing at a place with a Plantation already! So we are early 1600's so that means American settlements were kind of hugging the Atlantic Coast at the time... so why is there a statue of a guy who died in 1626, in New Mexico.

Well... he was a Spaniard of sorts and was born in New Spain (currently known as Mexico). Yeah, it keeps getting better. He was tasked with exploring their new territory because no western power had exploited it yet, so it was up for grabs!

Well, stuff happens when you are exploring your new territory, like people already on there aren't happy you are on it. Long story short, because we are Americans, we don't have time for long stories... we get a massacre. 24 guys who survived got a foot cut off. I know, right... starting to see why we have a statue of him.

So anyway, he was exiled from the area now known as New Mexico (no one has original names it seems) in 1614. So that is why they made a statue for him... and why El Paso tried to in 1997 for whatever fucking reason. (Apparently because he was one of the first Europeans (not European) to explore the area, apparently we are out of Heroes in the US).

So anyway, a guy in New Mexico was shot while in a crowd trying to take this guy's statue down.

But shot by a right-wing wacko, not the police.
There were protestors on one side of the street and a group of armed, camo-clad, right-wing vigilantes on the other. Things got violent and shots were fired.
The city removed the statue the next day, to avoid further trouble.