Julian vs. Hillary

[untermensche]

Cuba and it's people would have been much better off had it been part of the US!

Part of Cuba is part of the US.

A real fine place to visit.

 

[Malintent]

What drives this massive Hillary Clinton butthurt that seems so pervasive among conservatives, misogynists, and others?

The internet. Everyone with an asshole has an opinion, and can have it heard(t) by millions.
Humans have a knack for ignoring the mundane and latching on to the new or surprising.
So therefore, this.

 

[Axulus]

Well by that standard, so is England. Damn Romans. I mean damn Anglo-Saxons. I mean damn Normans.

Where are the Falklands in relation to England?

There might be evidence of colonization here.

And proximity is a crucial point.

Right, this is why we are entitled to Cuba.

That's what the US thought prior to Castro and has acted like ever since.

The whole damn human race colonized the planet.

The strange thing about all of this is that you think something a bunch of dead people did 150 years ago overrides democracy of today's living inhabitants and justifies a military dictator to rule over them. What a bizarre moral system you hold on to.

 

[J842P]

Where are the Falklands in relation to England?

There might be evidence of colonization here.

And proximity is a crucial point.

Right, this is why we are entitled to Cuba.

That's what the US thought prior to Castro and has acted like ever since.

The whole damn human race colonized the planet.

The strange thing about all of this is that you think something a bunch of dead people did 150 years ago overrides democracy of today's living inhabitants and justifies a military dictator to rule over them. What a bizarre moral system you hold on to.

It's absolutely absurd. Red-handed hypocrisy described it best.

 

[J842P]

Argentina is a colonial country itself. And if they had managed to occupy the islands, they would have colonized it themselves.

Just because they are in closer proximity to the islands does not mean it belongs to them.

Argentina is a product of colonization. Not a colonizing nation.

And proximity is a crucial point.

The proximity puts some powerful nation from half way across the planet right in your face.

The Argentines on the Falkands were colonists. Two rival countries were trying to colonize those islands 150 years ago. Argentina lost to the British. Most of the actual inhabitants before the Islands were contested were British sealers, although "inhabitants" might be a strong word. Indeed, the Argentine efforts weren't really Argentine, they let a German national do it, and most of the people in that colony were German citizens. After that venture failed, the Argentines tried to establish a penal colony which again failed, and it was at this point that the British reasserted control. The French, British, Spanish, and later Argentines all tried to colonize the place.

 

[untermensche]

Where are the Falklands in relation to England?

There might be evidence of colonization here.

And proximity is a crucial point.

Right, this is why we are entitled to Cuba.

That's what the US thought prior to Castro and has acted like ever since.

The whole damn human race colonized the planet.

This is a colonial possession half way across the planet.

Not something ubiquitous to the entire human race.

It is a rare entity.

 

[untermensche]

Argentina is a product of colonization. Not a colonizing nation.

And proximity is a crucial point.

The proximity puts some powerful nation from half way across the planet right in your face.

The Argentines on the Falkands were colonists. Two rival countries were trying to colonize those islands 150 years ago. Argentina lost to the British. Most of the actual inhabitants before the Islands were contested were British sealers, although "inhabitants" might be a strong word. Indeed, the Argentine efforts weren't really Argentine, they let a German national do it, and most of the people in that colony were German citizens. After that venture failed, the Argentines tried to establish a penal colony which again failed, and it was at this point that the British reasserted control. The French, British, Spanish, and later Argentines all tried to colonize the place.

It is an island right off their coast.

Settling it is not colonizing it. Going half way across the planet and kicking people around and talking their resources is colonization.

 

[Elixir]

WikiLeaks to publish more Hillary Clinton emails - Julian Assange

Although no matter what evidence emerges I doubt that Loretta Lynch will allow prosecution of heiress apparent, Hilllary of the House Clinton, the first of her name, the breaker of glass ceilings, dodger of sniper bullets, conqueress of Tuzla, slayer of Gaddafi or what other legend-mongering has arisen around the Inevitable One.

Funny. I'll bet that Trump is happy that Julian is helping him!

De Trump don' need no steenkin' help. Just ask him. He's doing Great so far - has the Rep party down to 32% "favorable" in the eyes of Americans. How could anyone with the power to do something like that, ever be defeated? I doubt there's anything he can't destroy. If he gets too pissed off when the Party tries to pull the rug out from under him at the convention, he might destroy the universe in anger.

 

[Elixir]

She is insane.

Of course she is insane (wants to be President) - but is she insaner than the Donald? She's more predictable than Trump I'd say, and people generally love predictable. That makes her look more sane than Trump. OTOH, Trump is showing every sign that he really doesn't really want to be President, he just wants to wreak havoc upon the Republican party. So maybe he is more sane than Hillary.

 

[untermensche]

She is insane.

Of course she is insane (wants to be President) - but is she insaner than the Donald? She's more predictable than Trump I'd say, and people generally love predictable. That makes her look more sane than Trump. OTOH, Trump is showing every sign that he really doesn't really want to be President, he just wants to wreak havoc upon the Republican party. So maybe he is more sane than Hillary.

It is a general insanity that effects people deluded by the religion of "The State".

They think "The State" gives them all kinds of rights and privileges to kill and abuse people not in "The State".

It is the most dangerous and destructive religion in the world.

 

[J842P]

The Argentines on the Falkands were colonists. Two rival countries were trying to colonize those islands 150 years ago. Argentina lost to the British. Most of the actual inhabitants before the Islands were contested were British sealers, although "inhabitants" might be a strong word. Indeed, the Argentine efforts weren't really Argentine, they let a German national do it, and most of the people in that colony were German citizens. After that venture failed, the Argentines tried to establish a penal colony which again failed, and it was at this point that the British reasserted control. The French, British, Spanish, and later Argentines all tried to colonize the place.

It is an island right off their coast.

Settling it is not colonizing it. Going half way across the planet and kicking people around and talking their resources is colonization.

Of course it's colonization. If the US went to the Bahamas and took an island, it would be colonization. There were various colonial powers vying for that island, including Argentina, and indeed, Argentina wasn't even the original claimant. You're making absolutely no sense, and this is a pretty transparent example of you applying faulty reasoning because you dislike Margaret Thatcher. Of course, why you seem to prefer the military dictator Leopoldo Galtieri is beyond rationalization, a man best know for his Guerra Sucia, where over 30,000 leftist activists were disappeared, a horrible example of America supporting state-sponsored terrorism in South America. For fuck's sake, man, wake up.

 

[untermensche]

It is an island right off their coast.

Settling it is not colonizing it. Going half way across the planet and kicking people around and talking their resources is colonization.

Of course it's colonization. If the US went to the Bahamas and took an island, it would be colonization. There were various colonial powers vying for that island, including Argentina, and indeed, Argentina wasn't even the original claimant. You're making absolutely no sense, and this is a pretty transparent example of you applying faulty reasoning because you dislike Margaret Thatcher. Of course, why you seem to prefer the military dictator Leopoldo Galtieri is beyond rationalization, a man best know for his Guerra Sucia, where over 30,000 leftist activists were disappeared, a horrible example of America supporting state-sponsored terrorism in South America. For fuck's sake, man, wake up.

What does this hand waving have to do with anything?

A colonial power used force to disrupt the natural course of settlement of an island.

There is no legitimate claim in that.

 

[Elixir]

Of course she is insane (wants to be President) - but is she insaner than the Donald? She's more predictable than Trump I'd say, and people generally love predictable. That makes her look more sane than Trump. OTOH, Trump is showing every sign that he really doesn't really want to be President, he just wants to wreak havoc upon the Republican party. So maybe he is more sane than Hillary.

It is a general insanity that effects people deluded by the religion of "The State".

They think "The State" gives them all kinds of rights and privileges to kill and abuse people not in "The State".

It is the most dangerous and destructive religion in the world.

Meh. They're all alike - cults, sects, religions, nations... They all exhibit tribalist behavior and tap into the ancient instinct for tribal defense. Problem is, the tribal model actually works pretty well when tribes are a few hundred people, but not so much when it's hundreds of millions. In its current expression, that genetically programmed behavior could possibly be lethal to the species.

 

[Derec]

A colonial power used force to disrupt the natural course of settlement of an island.

How is Spanish colonial settlement on the islands natural but English colonial settlement unnatural?
And reversing 150 years of settlement history by military force would not be "disrupt[ing] the natural course of settlement of an island"?

I am really at a loss to see any logic here, other than applying Spanish speaking ≫ English speaking.

 

[untermensche]

A colonial power used force to disrupt the natural course of settlement of an island.

How is Spanish colonial settlement on the islands natural but English colonial settlement unnatural?
And reversing 150 years of settlement history by military force would not be "disrupt[ing] the natural course of settlement of an island"?

I am really at a loss to see any logic here, other than applying Spanish speaking ≫ English speaking.

The natural settlement is not to be controlled from across the planet.

If Spain still claimed the Island I would say the same thing.

 

[Derec]

The natural settlement is not to be controlled from across the planet.

They are not 'controlled' across the planet in any meaningful sense - they have their own parliament and chief executive, their own constitution. UK provides defense however, which proved rather necessary when Argentina invaded. I mean, do you really expect a couple of thousand settlers with a bloody sheep in their coat of arms to be able to defend themselves against foreign aggression?

If Spain still claimed the Island I would say the same thing.

But Argentina conquering it is fine just due to proximity? The local population obviously likes their current status and wish to maintain it.

 

[untermensche]

They are not 'controlled' across the planet in any meaningful sense - they have their own parliament and chief executive, their own constitution. UK provides defense however, which proved rather necessary when Argentina invaded. I mean, do you really expect a couple of thousand settlers with a bloody sheep in their coat of arms to be able to defend themselves against foreign aggression?

If Spain still claimed the Island I would say the same thing.

But Argentina conquering it is fine just due to proximity? The local population obviously likes their current status and wish to maintain it.

I don't think force should be the answer on either side.

An independent nation would be fine with me.

But ties to England are the result of oppression and violence, because free settlement was forbidden.

It isn't legitimate anymore than the monarchy in Saudi Arabia is legitimate.

 

[Axulus]

They are not 'controlled' across the planet in any meaningful sense - they have their own parliament and chief executive, their own constitution. UK provides defense however, which proved rather necessary when Argentina invaded. I mean, do you really expect a couple of thousand settlers with a bloody sheep in their coat of arms to be able to defend themselves against foreign aggression?

But Argentina conquering it is fine just due to proximity? The local population obviously likes their current status and wish to maintain it.

I don't think force should be the answer on either side.

An independent nation would be fine with me.

But ties to England are the result of oppression and violence, because free settlement was forbidden.

It isn't legitimate anymore than the monarchy in Saudi Arabia is legitimate.

It is legitimate because the people who actually live on the islands (most of them have been there their entire lives) and whose ancestors have been on them for over 150 years and whose very livelihood is at stake want it that way. You know, democracy and all that.

 

[untermensche]

It is legitimate because the people who actually live on the islands and whose very livelihood is at stake want it that way. You know, democracy and all that.

Falkland Islands lie in Argentinian waters, UN commission rules

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/mar/29/falkland-islands-argentina-waters-rules-un-commission

This is a matter for the UN.

It should be put up to a democratic vote in the UN.

 

[Jayjay]

Falkland Islands lie in Argentinian waters, UN commission rules

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/mar/29/falkland-islands-argentina-waters-rules-un-commission

This is a matter for the UN.

It should be put up to a democratic vote in the UN.

Do you mean UN security council, where UK has a veto?

Or do you mean the general assembly, that consist mostly of dictatorships and autocracies rather than democracies?